Marcialonga Skiers Have Good Taste

Here's a summary of a survey done at last year's Marcialonga, Italy's
Worldloppet race:

From http://www.worldloppet.com/news.php?id=764 :
Last year 385 competitors were drawn and interviewed. 88.8% of them were men
and 11.2% women, 53% Italians and 47% foreigners.88.8% of them were men and
11.2% women, 53% Italians and 47% foreigners. 95% answered to the questions
and the results have given important indications to organisers. About 67% of
respondents said that they liked the classic style the best, 19% said they
love the free style and 14% had no particular preference for one or the
other style.
The most interesting result is that obtained in the 18-24 years age group
where about 60% of respondents said that they prefer the classic style, a
percentage that reaches 69% in the 35-50 years group and 67% in the over 50
years group.

I seem to remember that when Marcialonga went to classic there was concern
that numbers of participants would drop. Didn't happen.

Survey doesn't specify if the respondants where addressing their preference
in general or at the Marcialonga, where log jams were common prior to the
switch.

What if USA Birki went classic? Would skating Yankees, like skating Euros
rise to the occasion and make the transition?

There was a call by Maricalonga organizers for the skaters to adopt the
classic technique as a new challenge. But I suspect that European skiers,
especially older European skiers have an orientation to classic skiing as
that's what they learned, and in North America younger skiers entered
through the skating door.

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY (If surveyed would have been one of the 67%)

Amen gary.

when the birkie goes classic the skating cycle will have come full circle.

Back to basics, back to classic.

I'll be there. Let's start lobbying.

And, I'll start a vote and keep track of the results ---------

HERE's ONE VOTE FOR A birkie CLASSIC RACE EVERY 3rd year.

JK

What if USA Birki went classic? Would skating Yankees, like skating Euros
rise to the occasion and make the transition?


....not that I am Yankee, but, Gary, if the Birkie goes classic, you can
have the whole Bob's Bear Den to yourself.

Oh, I know what I'll do, I'll fly to Lake Placid Loppet instead.

Gary Jacobson wrote:
I seem to remember that when Marcialonga went to classic there was concern
that numbers of participants would drop. Didn't happen.

As I remember it from the start of this year's Marcialonga I think that
there was more than 800 Norwegians starting in this years Marcialonga
(although that number might have been from K=F6nig Ludwig Lauf, but I
don't think so and in any case the conclusionis still that there are
many skiers from the nordic countries in those races) and not really
few Swedes either. I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers dropped if
Marcialonga switch back to skating. At least the Swedes (someone from
Norway perhaps could give his/her opinion about skating vs. classic
technique in Norway). Not that I have ever seen any statistics for
Swedish skiiers opinions about classic vs skating technique, but
Vasaloppet have had problems for years attracting interest for races in
skating technique.


/ Niklas

What if USA Birki went classic? Would skating Yankees, like skating Euros
rise to the occasion and make the transition?

Let's leave the Birkie as is. I think that is a pretty good course to
skate. That said, it might be a good classic course too.

However, this one is too easy ! We already have the Noquemanon ! This
is a GREAT classic course ! It is a lousy skating course !

C'mon 32 Degrees JK, ya went to school right there ! You already know
all this stuff !

Exhibit A
There are jillions of slow V1 climbs, if you are skating, that most of
which you can stride right on up in classic without much herringboning
(which is the least fun part of classic I think). As you stride up
these things, clearly you can just about as fast as skating up them,
because your skis aren't going sideways, they are going straight up the
tracks !

Exhibit B
The Marquette snow is deep & plentiful. The Noquey course is so soft
for skating ! The skis tend to plow right in, even the soft tipped
skaters. Friends, that is WORK. Meanwhile, the track is hard & grippy.
Nice. The lane can also get micro-stalactites of ice crystals due to
extremely cold conditions. Super slo-mo like sandpaper ! Again, WORK.
Meanwhile, nice double set tracks. Mmmm...classic.

Exhibit C
It's on the ASM as a classic race, so the team skiers are doing the
race classic too. For once, it doesn't feel like the minority to
classic when given the option.

Then ya can go to Vierlings afterwards with Telewhacker & ask him about
how the skate race went.

Seriously, glad to see the Noquey is on the Michigan Cup this year, but
I think I will still stride it (earning about half points).

wrote:
Gary Jacobson wrote:
I seem to remember that when Marcialonga went to classic there was conc=
ern
that numbers of participants would drop. Didn't happen.

As I remember it from the start of this year's Marcialonga I think that
there was more than 800 Norwegians starting in this years Marcialonga
(although that number might have been from K=F6nig Ludwig Lauf, but I
don't think so and in any case the conclusionis still that there are
many skiers from the nordic countries in those races) and not really
few Swedes either. I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers dropped if
Marcialonga switch back to skating. At least the Swedes (someone from
Norway perhaps could give his/her opinion about skating vs. classic
technique in Norway). Not that I have ever seen any statistics for
Swedish skiiers opinions about classic vs skating technique, but
Vasaloppet have had problems for years attracting interest for races in
skating technique.


/ Niklas

I'm not Norwegian, but I live here in Norway. I don't know of any
accurate statistics on the subject, but I'd say the split for skiiers
in general is about 95% classic, 5% skate. That is based on my
observation out on the trails. The only people I see skating are either
kids, or clearly very serious racers with one-piece lycra suits. I
skate about 50% of the time (depending on conditions and if my 5 and 4
year old kids are along) and I never see other people like myself (that
is to say hobby skiiers) skating. The figures also reflect the fact
that in Norway (as in other Nordic countries) lots of "normal" people
ski too, and they are virtually 100% classic.

Joseph

wrote:
I'm not Norwegian, but I live here in Norway. I don't know of any
accurate statistics on the subject, but I'd say the split for skiiers
in general is about 95% classic, 5% skate. That is based on my
observation out on the trails. The only people I see skating are either
kids, or clearly very serious racers with one-piece lycra suits. I
skate about 50% of the time (depending on conditions and if my 5 and 4
year old kids are along) and I never see other people like myself (that
is to say hobby skiiers) skating. The figures also reflect the fact
that in Norway (as in other Nordic countries) lots of "normal" people
ski too, and they are virtually 100% classic.

Joseph, those observations and estimates are pretty much spot on. :-)

Terje

--
-
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

Gary Jacobson wrote:

(...) About 67% of respondents said that they liked the classic style the
best, 19% said they love the free style and 14% had no particular prefere=
nce for one or the other style.

Hmm, this tells us two things: (1) there are avid skaters who are
willing to switch to classic if that's the only way to do a particular
race (OTOH we don't know what percentage of avid skaters chose not to
to it), and (2) the majority of participants in a classic race prefer
the classic style (OTOH we shouldn't be surprised if the figures would
be reversed in a gallup among participants in a skating race).


The most interesting result is that obtained in the 18-24 years age group
where about 60% of respondents said that they prefer the classic style, a
percentage that reaches 69% in the 35-50 years group and 67% in the over =
50
years group.

I'd be interested to learn whether the percentage of participants in
the 18-24 year age group went up or down when the race went classic (or
if there was any other change).


I seem to remember that when Marcialonga went to classic there was concern
that numbers of participants would drop. Didn't happen.

It would seem that (in addition to the skiers who preferred or at least
didn=B4t mind the switch) there was a big enough latent group of classic
only/mainly skiers that compensated for the skating only participants
who dropped out.


Survey doesn't specify if the respondants where addressing their preferen=
ce
in general or at the Marcialonga, where log jams were common prior to the
switch.

Excuse my lack of imagination, but how would a switch to classic solve
the problem of log jams in any marathon race and in Marcialongain
particular?


There was a call by Maricalonga organizers for the skaters to adopt the
classic technique as a new challenge. But I suspect that European skiers,
especially older European skiers have an orientation to classic skiing as
that's what they learned, and in North America younger skiers entered
through the skating door.

I don't think there are any stats, but the general impression here is
that the (relatively few) skating races draw a somewhat larger
percentage of younger skiers than classic races - and that there is a
small group of predominantly young (35) skiers who only do skating
races.



Anders

Dell

I think the Noque is a great classic RACE but not the greatest classic
COURSE.

The schedulers at the Noque got it right when they had the classic skiers
leave an hour before the elite male skaters. Most classic skiers have the
majority (if not all) of their race to themselves. This to me is just
perfect: no classic tracks that have been skied over, no worries of skaters
coming up behind you, no one V1ing in the tracks ahead of you. BUT I think
the course is more suited to skating.

There are some great climbs on the course but for most of the time you are
double poling. In 05 I skated it for the first time (after classicing in
99, 03, and 04) and was able to see so much more of the gorgeous
surroundings. It may just be me but in double poling my head is not looking
up nearly as much as when I skate. Also you can V2A almost all of the 2nd
half of the race.

I am signed up to skate it again this year and without the perfect
conditions of 05 my tune may change but for now I think if you are only
looking at the course, it is a better skate race. When you consider the
race itself, classic may win out.

As far as the Birkie goes, I would love to see it go all classic, at least
for a year. But I don't ever see that happening. Too much of a risk for
the Birkie organizers. Every year (since they added classic awards) I
consider skiing it classic but since it is THE measuring stick for mid-west
skiers, I don't want to miss that opportunity to see where I line up with
the others. I skied it classic in 98 and 99 and had a great time. I think
it is a really good classic course but with all the skaters, the appeal is
just not there.

Dave


"delltodd" wrote in message
oups.com...

What if USA Birki went classic? Would skating Yankees, like skating Euros
rise to the occasion and make the transition?

Let's leave the Birkie as is. I think that is a pretty good course to
skate. That said, it might be a good classic course too.

However, this one is too easy ! We already have the Noquemanon ! This
is a GREAT classic course ! It is a lousy skating course !

C'mon 32 Degrees JK, ya went to school right there ! You already know
all this stuff !

Exhibit A
There are jillions of slow V1 climbs, if you are skating, that most of
which you can stride right on up in classic without much herringboning
(which is the least fun part of classic I think). As you stride up
these things, clearly you can just about as fast as skating up them,
because your skis aren't going sideways, they are going straight up the
tracks !

Exhibit B
The Marquette snow is deep & plentiful. The Noquey course is so soft
for skating ! The skis tend to plow right in, even the soft tipped
skaters. Friends, that is WORK. Meanwhile, the track is hard & grippy.
Nice. The lane can also get micro-stalactites of ice crystals due to
extremely cold conditions. Super slo-mo like sandpaper ! Again, WORK.
Meanwhile, nice double set tracks. Mmmm...classic.

Exhibit C
It's on the ASM as a classic race, so the team skiers are doing the
race classic too. For once, it doesn't feel like the minority to
classic when given the option.

Then ya can go to Vierlings afterwards with Telewhacker & ask him about
how the skate race went.

Seriously, glad to see the Noquey is on the Michigan Cup this year, but
I think I will still stride it (earning about half points).