Want to race and need pointers and new equipment (skis bindings poles boots etc)

I am currently in college and next winter i will be transfering to a
college with an alpine ski team that i am inquiring about. I am 6 Ft
tall and 130lbs/58Kg male. I am hopeing on getting into giant slalom
and have been looking at skis. My currnet pair i have a feeling are
not going to do the job well (late 70's - early 80's Dynastar 185's)
though ive babied them since ive owned them..... i just have a feeling
;-) Also just a note ive been skiing since i was 2 to give an
experience level. So as far as my major intersts go


Should i go as far as to actually buy racing grade skis or should i ?
Yeah im in college but ive been saving and can afford around 1000 -
1200 USD total for the whole shebang.

Ive never actually bought first hand skis and never for anything more
than recreation, so should i stick with the size ski that im used to
(185) or should i go with what the manufacturers reccomend when i
input my information? What if anything are the upsides and downsides
to both choices?

Im looking at Elan and Rossignol as far as manufacturers go as ive
tried a pair of Elan's my frinend owns and loved the ride and
Rossignol has good advertising :-$

I want to try the skis before i buy them and was wondering a good way
to go about doing so. I live in the midwest (Wisconsin... Northern
Michigan next winter) and most of the local ... hills... dont have
anything near that caliber for premium rentals and am having a hard
time finding a shop that is willing to let me do so.

Next I was wondering about Bindings. First off i dont really know
where to start in looking for a binding to fit my needs (though i cant
really say what i need as ill be starting next winter actually racing)
What are some things to look for in a good pair of Giant slalom
bindings. Reccomendations to try/buy.

Next im going to have to get a pair of boots to go along. What to look
for, i have rather narrow feet for a guy and ive found that many boots
are made for people with much wider feet than me.

Im also going to need poles, i know ill need the curved ones but do
they come already curved and how do i make sure theyre bent in the
right place for what im doing or do i have to get them adjusted?

As far as goggles go i have a pair if nice goggles at the shop that im
going to probably get , but is there anything special that i should
know before i go ahead and get them.

Im going to wait to hear back from the coach of the team before i look
into helmets as they might have some of their own or some odd color
requirements or something.

Now i think thats everything, if youve read this and have or are going
to post something helpful, I thank you greatly, as i said before ive
been doing this since i was 2 but everything i have now and have had
in the past was handed down to me quite a while ago so ive never done
this before. Any other information or recommendations or random
thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Jace

Jace wrote:

I am currently in college and next winter i will be transfering to a
college with an alpine ski team that i am inquiring about. I am 6 Ft
tall and 130lbs/58Kg male. I am hopeing on getting into giant slalom
and have been looking at skis. My currnet pair i have a feeling are
not going to do the job well (late 70's - early 80's Dynastar 185's)
though ive babied them since ive owned them..... i just have a feeling
;-) Also just a note ive been skiing since i was 2 to give an
experience level. So as far as my major intersts go

Should i go as far as to actually buy racing grade skis or should i ?
Yeah im in college but ive been saving and can afford around 1000 -
1200 USD total for the whole shebang.


If you're serious about racing, yes you should go for racing grade
skis. My informal survey indicates that the Fischer RC4 and the Volkl
P50 are the race skis of choice for that part of the country. But
you'll probably do better by asking your coach or other team members
than by listening to the advice of strangers on usenet. Plus, the
coach/team may have a line on discounts directly from the rep which may
save you some money off of retail. Definitly worth asking.

Ive never actually bought first hand skis and never for anything more
than recreation, so should i stick with the size ski that im used to
(185) or should i go with what the manufacturers reccomend when i
input my information? What if anything are the upsides and downsides
to both choices?

Most racers are on short skis these days.

I want to try the skis before i buy them and was wondering a good way
to go about doing so. I live in the midwest (Wisconsin... Northern
Michigan next winter) and most of the local ... hills... dont have
anything near that caliber for premium rentals and am having a hard
time finding a shop that is willing to let me do so.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by Northern Michigan. If you mean
the northren lower peninsula, the resorts in that area all have demo
centers. Nubs Nob is probably the most extensive, but the Boynes and
Crystal are fairly close. Shanty Creek only has Salomon & Volkl. If
you're talking about the UP, I don't have the foggiest.


Next I was wondering about Bindings. First off i dont really know
where to start in looking for a binding to fit my needs (though i cant
really say what i need as ill be starting next winter actually racing)
What are some things to look for in a good pair of Giant slalom
bindings. Reccomendations to try/buy.

Many new skis have integrated carving plates that require a specific
brand of binding. If you get one of those skis, get the binding that'll
fit. Otherwise, bindings are somewhat of a religious issue. I say stay
away from Salomon and go with Marker. Other people will tell you
different.


Next im going to have to get a pair of boots to go along. What to look
for, i have rather narrow feet for a guy and ive found that many boots
are made for people with much wider feet than me.

Boots that fit your feet. Brand, model, gizmos, etc are not as
important as whether they fit your feet. Google boot fitting.


--
//-Walt
//
// http://tinyurl.com/yubxo

Jace wrote:
I am currently in college and next winter i will be transfering to a
college with an alpine ski team that i am inquiring about.

During your enquiries ask the team coach at your new college for
recommendations - he'll know the level of racing involved, and the
appropriate gear.

Also go to the Demo ski shop at your current mountain and try a few high
end skis to see if you're even capable of skiing an upper end ski.

Thirdly, check with the ski team coaches at your current mountain (or
nearest mountain with a serious race team) about second hand skis from
their racers - serious racers turn over 4-6 pairs of trace skis every
year; good deals can be had cheap.

(Jace) writes:

[snip]
Should i go as far as to actually buy racing grade skis or should i ?
Yeah im in college but ive been saving and can afford around 1000 -
1200 USD total for the whole shebang.

That should be enough if you shop around. As far as whether you
should buy race skis, I'd expect that every single person you race
against will have 'em -- and, if you're a good skier, you'll run up
against the limitations of your gear PDQ once you start running
gates.

Ive never actually bought first hand skis and never for anything more
than recreation, so should i stick with the size ski that im used to
(185) or should i go with what the manufacturers reccomend when i
input my information?

Neither. You should talk to your coach. If you don't know the gear
at all, it's best to be guided by someone who knows the equipment,
has seen you ski, and knows exactly what you want to do with it.
Don't got a coach now? Wait until you do. Yes, there are steal
deals to be had in the off season...but a deal's not a deal if
it's the wrong thing.

Im looking at Elan and Rossignol as far as manufacturers go as ive
tried a pair of Elan's my frinend owns and loved the ride and
Rossignol has good advertising :-$

They sure do, and if you buy Rossi GS skis off the rack, you'll be
getting something very different from what you see in the ads. Some
top racers are getting great results on Rossis, but the only
similarity between what they're on and what you'll see in the store
is the topsheet. Forget the ads. Talk to someone who knows.

I want to try the skis before i buy them and was wondering a good way
to go about doing so.

Talk to your coach. He/she can help hook you up with demos.

Next I was wondering about Bindings.

Talk to your coach.

Next im going to have to get a pair of boots to go along.

No, _first_ you're going to have to get a pair of boots. That's
your most important piece of gear. Again, talk to your coach, and
get steered to a good bootfitter.

Im also going to need poles, i know ill need the curved ones but do
they come already curved and how do i make sure theyre bent in the
right place for what im doing or do i have to get them adjusted?

GS poles come pre-bent. You can cut to size and bend to fit if you
know what you're doing. If you don't, you'd be making a big mistake
to wing it. Talk to your coach, try before you buy.

As far as goggles go i have a pair if nice goggles at the shop that im
going to probably get , but is there anything special that i should
know before i go ahead and get them.

Im going to wait to hear back from the coach of the team before i look
into helmets as they might have some of their own or some odd color
requirements or something.

Well, they won't (or they shouldn't) be lending helmets. Get your
own helmet that fits your own head...and, one more time, talk to
your coach about what the helmet requirements are. I doubt they'll
give a damn about the color, but they will care about protection in
the form of a faceguard, bumper or both. Most helmets you find in
ski shops are not equipped with these, and not equipped to take them
as an aftermarket add-on...and believe me, even if your team doesn't
require it, you DO NOT want to be running gates without some kind of
face protection. As for the goggles, get the helmet first, then
take it to the shop and try the goggles with it. You want goggles
that will fit your helmet and leave no gaps between the goggles and
the helmet rim; otherwise you'll develop really annoying cold spots.

Now i think thats everything, if youve read this and have or are going
to post something helpful, I thank you greatly, as i said before ive
been doing this since i was 2 but everything i have now and have had
in the past was handed down to me quite a while ago so ive never done
this before. Any other information or recommendations or random
thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Don't be in a rush, is all I'd say. If you'll be racing with a
team, you really want to get hooked up with their recommended
shops -- because of discounts, good service, good advice, etc. You,
plus your coach, plus a shop that really understands your
requirements, will add up to money much better spent.

Oh yeah, one more thing: if you get the chance this spring, try to
demo some race skis, not with an eye to buying but just to see what
they feel like. You don't find demos like this by hanging around
ski areas looking for vendors who are letting people try their skis
for free -- those kind of events are rare and not usually open to
the general public anyway. What you do is look for a ski shop that
has what they call "performance rentals". They cost as much as a
standard rental, and often a bit more, but it's worth it for the
experience. If you're interested in the Rossi race ski, try 'em
out...but for comparison, try something at the other end of the
spectrum, like an Atomic GS11 or whatever Fischer's got. Or, if you
have a friend who's got some current race skis, ask if you can
borrow them. Be prepared to treat them with more respect than
you're probably used to with your current gear -- racers tend to be
very careful not to run into rocks or ski over dirty crud, because
guess what, that screws with a ski's performance. Your friend or
the shop you rent from will appreciate it if you treat their gear
with care, and it's good to start getting in the habit if you plan
to get your own.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

A few thoughts, based on what little I know (so take it with an appropriate
grain of salt):

"Jace" wrote in message
om...
I am currently in college and next winter i will be transfering to a
college with an alpine ski team that i am inquiring about. I am 6 Ft
tall and 130lbs/58Kg male. I am hopeing on getting into giant slalom
and have been looking at skis. My currnet pair i have a feeling are
not going to do the job well (late 70's - early 80's Dynastar 185's)
though ive babied them since ive owned them..... i just have a feeling
;-) Also just a note ive been skiing since i was 2 to give an
experience level. So as far as my major intersts go

So far as I can tell, the "level" (if you will) of college ski teams seems
to cover a wide spectrum. At one end, you've got your Denvers and Colorados
and Dartmouths. They recruit racers like some schools recruit track stars
(though not quite like football or basketball players) -- if you're not at
least on the US Development Team (or the equivalent in some European ski
power), you're not going to make the grade anyway. At the other end are the
large numbers of colleges where skiing is a non-varsity (or "club") sport.
At those, there may be no-one, or maybe a guy or two, who's ever even raced
before. In between, there's the whole gamut. There are certainly
non-powerhouse colleges, where the entire ski team is made up of people with
5+ years of USSA racing under their belt.

It's not clear where the college you're talking about fits into this. If its
at the "club" end of the spectrum, you're in great shape as far as
experience. On the other hand, the advice (good in other circumstances)
about talking to your coach isn't going to do you a lot of good, because
there probably isn't a coach.

In any event, you should figure out who the coach is -- or who the Club
president or whatever is -- and address these questions to him or her or it.
For one thing, it's possible the team gets a deal on some equipment.

A few more specific thoughts:

6 feet / 130? You might want to hit the steroids, or the weights, or the
cheeseburgers, or something.

Your skis are about the same age you are?

In the pre-shaped ski days (i.e. until a few years ago), 185 was a pretty
short ski. Presumably you had these since you were 13 or something.
Nowadays, that's in the ballpark for a GS ski. Given your weight, you'd
probably go a bit shorter.

Should i go as far as to actually buy racing grade skis or should i ?
Yeah im in college but ive been saving and can afford around 1000 -
1200 USD total for the whole shebang.

If you want to race, you should get racing skis. They'll work for other
skiing -- particularly in Michigan, where you're unlikely to be cutting
tracks through deep pow in the backcountry on a regular basis. You should be
able to get there in your price range, though it's a push. You're not going
to make it paying retail for new equipment. Nor are you going to make it
with the full-on racer's kit of training skis, matching race-day skis, etc.
Even if your team doesn't get you a deal, there are some the used
(obviously, also: last year's model, overstocks, sniagrabs or whatever they
call 'em.

... I want to try the skis before i buy them and was wondering a good way
to go about doing so. I live in the midwest (Wisconsin... Northern
Michigan next winter) and most of the local ... hills... dont have
anything near that caliber for premium rentals and am having a hard
time finding a shop that is willing to let me do so.

In most areas, good ski shops (not the rental place at the hill) are the
best place to find high-end demos. The coach / club president might help you
here. Another approach would be to track down someone from the racing
program at a nearby area, and ask what ski shop they shop at.

Next I was wondering about Bindings. First off i dont really know
where to start in looking for a binding to fit my needs (though i cant
really say what i need as ill be starting next winter actually racing)
What are some things to look for in a good pair of Giant slalom
bindings. Reccomendations to try/buy.

The main thing to look for is that they'll mount on whatever plates you
have. Given your size, you're probably not going to want a full-on "race"
binding, because the DIN will start too high. One other thing to worry about
is that they're legal as to height (with the plate and all) -- if they even
check that in whatever league you'll be racing in.

Next im going to have to get a pair of boots to go along. What to look
for, i have rather narrow feet for a guy and ive found that many boots
are made for people with much wider feet than me.

Race boots are normally narrow. They're also going to be a bit on the stiff
side for you.

Im also going to need poles, i know ill need the curved ones but do
they come already curved and how do i make sure theyre bent in the
right place for what im doing or do i have to get them adjusted?

You can buy them curved. You don't need them for GS (though some people do
use them). There are a number of other things you haven't mentioned (like a
suit) that are more important than bent poles, if you're starting down that
road.

As far as goggles go i have a pair if nice goggles at the shop that im
going to probably get , but is there anything special that i should
know before i go ahead and get them.

They should fit under your helmet, and fit your face.

Im going to wait to hear back from the coach of the team before i look
into helmets as they might have some of their own or some odd color
requirements or something.

They probably don't have a uniform helmet. They might.

For GS, IMHO (which may differ from others), you don't need a special
helmet. You're not supposed to hit GS gates with your face.

sjjohnston wrote:

For GS, IMHO (which may differ from others), you don't need a special
helmet. You're not supposed to hit GS gates with your face.

You'd be maybe surprised.

Anyway, IIRC USSA is requiring helmets for GS for junior races - I
suspect they'd may be required for Masters also (Mary?)

I don't know what rules college club teams race under, but the
competitive higher level teams race under FIS rules, which have archane
requirements on ski length and boot footbed height from the snow, etc -
the OP really needs to discuss this stuff with his potential coach (I
think even club teams have someone, maybe a seasoned volunteer, in the
role of coach. And I have seen club teams where equipment deals were on
the table, through the coach.)

lal_truckee writes:

sjjohnston wrote:

For GS, IMHO (which may differ from others), you don't need a special
helmet. You're not supposed to hit GS gates with your face.

You'd be maybe surprised.

Yeh, you're not s'posed to, but there were a couple of people at
nationals wwho were reportedly taking out gates with their faces in
the speed events. It does happen -- I'd opt for some protection.

Anyway, IIRC USSA is requiring helmets for GS for junior races - I
suspect they'd may be required for Masters also (Mary?)

I think so. I never saw anyone in a GS without one.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

"lal_truckee" wrote in message
...
sjjohnston wrote:

For GS, IMHO (which may differ from others), you don't need a special
helmet. You're not supposed to hit GS gates with your face.

You'd be maybe surprised.

Anyway, IIRC USSA is requiring helmets for GS for junior races - I
suspect they'd may be required for Masters also (Mary?)

I may have been unclear he he definitely needs *some* helmet for GS. The
USSA has required them for years and years and years. The NCAA requires them
now, though I believe that's a fairly recent change. The NCAA requirement is
that it be "manufactured for ski racing," which maybe is a bit narrower than
"any ski helmet."

My only point was he doesn't need a slalom helmet with the teethguard and
forehead bumper. I suppose it might be nice to have ... but from what I've
seen, most people -- even those who have slalom facegear -- don't wear it
for GS.

I don't know what rules college club teams race under, but the
competitive higher level teams race under FIS rules, which have archane
requirements on ski length and boot footbed height from the snow, etc -

You make a good point here. It looks like he should probably not drop below
185 (or, possibly, 180) with his GS skis.

Some college teams (or team members) definitely compete in USSA divisional
races. Which have the FIS height restrictions (55 mm), but (at least now)
none of the ski length/radius rules that apply to FIS races. If he's never
raced before, I don't see him exactly entered in a FIS race.

BUT -- in addition the 55 mm height restriction, the NCAA recently adopted a
new rule: "The length of Alpine skis shall comply with international
standards." (Incidentally, if anyone's interested in the NCAA rules, they
(like all other information you might ever possibly want to know ... okay,
not quite) are available online:
http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/20...iing_rules.pdf
The NCAA rules would, I believe, be applicable at the "carnival" college
races (like the Dartmouth one, etc.) and, of course, the big championship,
if our guy is good enough to wind up at that.

This isn't the clearest rule I've ever seen. Presumably "international
standards" means the FIS rules. There actually are special FIS rules for
university competitions, but they're the same as the general rules as to
equipment. For slalom, the FIS rule is minimum length = 165 (for men). For
GS, it's 185 (for men), plus a "tolerance" of -5 cm (except at the very top
level). The FIS also has *radius* restrictions for GS (21 meters). Radius is
affected by the ski length, but I suspect it's not the "length" standard
referred to by the NCAA rules. If he does want to comply with that, he
should check that the ski radius isn't less than 21 m -- the radius should
be written on the topsheet of any racing ski of recent vintage.

the OP really needs to discuss this stuff with his potential coach (I
think even club teams have someone, maybe a seasoned volunteer, in the
role of coach. And I have seen club teams where equipment deals were on
the table, through the coach.)

Yeah. Even if it's a club, it at least has a president, or an advisor, or
something. I think everyone's in agreement that he needs to make a couple
phone calls.

thanks everyone for giving me a point to start from. As for those
wondering as to whether is a club team or otherwiose, it is an actual
ncaa registered team and all.
Yes i did not flub up, im freakishly tall and thin but ive been
hitting the hamburgers and carbs hard since i was a frosh in
highschool (about 6 years) but so far it hasnt helped any. The fact
that I am a long distance runner and train mostly for that purpose may
give some explanation as to why i lok like this also.
Im thinking of competing in the giant slalom or super G events and
have contacted my coach about my interests.
"Norhtern michigan" that I am speaking of refers to the upper
peninsula of michigan... or the part above wisconsin.
At any rate thank you all for your input and any more info will be
greatly appreciated.