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#12
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Mounting alpine bindings
Seth Masia wrote:
I have the indemnification list, but I won't make it public, either. Sorry. The issue is that the lists are furnished to indemnified shops -- that is, to ski shops who send their shoprats to be certified as having all their wits (and fingers) intact. When your friendly neighborhood non-certified "expert" has the list and claims he can do the job safely, it leads to customers believing that the guy is backed by the manufacturer's warranty and indemnification program, when in fact he's not. I don't wanna be a party to that transaction. Well, that's not why I want to see it. I often troll the ski swaps looking for used gear, and I'd like to know whether the bindings are still supported by the manufacturer. Is this too much to ask? If I'm buying a car, I can check lemon lists and recall notices. If I'm buying software, I can find out what the supported versions are. Why not bindings? The guy who started this thread bought a pair of bindings on Ebay, and it appears that he bought a pair that are not on the indemnification list. I'd like to be able to tell people "before you buy used bindings, check the list". But I can't, because the industry in it's infinite wisdom has decided to make it secret. Sorry, but that's wrong. And as for the friendly neighborhood non-certified "expert", by keeping the list secret you just add to their mystique of credibility. If they've managed to get ahold of the secret list ( or just claim that they have a copy of the secret list, which they refuse to show you on the basis that its secret) it makes them seem *more* credible than if they had just copied some public information off the internet. Like so many other attempts to save people from themselves by hiding information, it's counter-productive. Sorry if I sound ****ed off about this, but I am. I'm not mad at you, Seth - you probably signed some non-disclosure agreement to get the list, and can't legally post the list without repercussions. But who's idea was it to keep this info secret? -- //-Walt // // The Volkl Conspiracy |
#13
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Mounting alpine bindings
Walt wrote:
Seth Masia wrote: I have the indemnification list, but I won't make it public, either. Sorry. The issue is that the lists are furnished to indemnified shops -- that is, to ski shops who send their shoprats to be certified as having all their wits (and fingers) intact. When your friendly neighborhood non-certified "expert" has the list and claims he can do the job safely, it leads to customers believing that the guy is backed by the manufacturer's warranty and indemnification program, when in fact he's not. I don't wanna be a party to that transaction. Well, that's not why I want to see it. I often troll the ski swaps looking for used gear, and I'd like to know whether the bindings are still supported by the manufacturer. Is this too much to ask? If I'm buying a car, I can check lemon lists and recall notices. If I'm buying software, I can find out what the supported versions are. Why not bindings? .... A while back omebody posted a link to the 2002-3 list published by snowtradenews. I tried to find it but couldn't. Maybe somebody else will have better luck. I did find that there's a movie called "Mad Pow Disease," though. -- Cheers, Bev ================================================= It's not the speed that kills, it's the stopping. |
#14
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Mounting alpine bindings
Walt wrote:
Well, that's not why I want to see it. I often troll the ski swaps looking for used gear, and I'd like to know whether the bindings are still supported by the manufacturer. Is this too much to ask? If I'm buying a car, I can check lemon lists and recall notices. If I'm buying software, I can find out what the supported versions are. Why not bindings? I agree with you Walt, it would be good to know what is 'supported' these days and what is not. I would think this would be good for the industry, as people might pony up for new bindings when they see that the ones they could by are not 'supported' any more. It looks like, from the NSSRA site, that I could get the list for a membership, which is $120. If we all pitch in we could get it out into the world. I don't see any real reason why it shouldn't be out there for everyone to see. Related question: Is this also what some people refer to as being 'out of DIN'? -- Chester Bullock, Ethical, custom website hosting, design and programming Tenxible Solutions, http://www.tenxible.com Web Based Autoresponder and DRIP system, http://www.toolsre.com AIM: tenxible YahooIM: ccb247 |
#15
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Mounting alpine bindings
The Real Bev wrote:
A while back omebody posted a link to the 2002-3 list published by snowtradenews. I tried to find it but couldn't. Maybe somebody else will have better luck. I did find that there's a movie called "Mad Pow Disease," though. Duh! Never mind... -- Cheers, Bev ================================================= It's not the speed that kills, it's the stopping. |
#16
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Mounting alpine bindings
The Real Bev wrote:
Walt wrote: Seth Masia wrote: I have the indemnification list, but I won't make it public, either. Sorry. If I'm buying a car, I can check lemon lists and recall notices. If I'm buying software, I can find out what the supported versions are. Why not bindings? ... A while back omebody posted a link to the 2002-3 list published by snowtradenews. I tried to find it but couldn't. IIRC, Snowtradenews and www.snowtradenews.com went belly-up last March. Here's an idea: Maybe we could find the former editor and ask him nicely to post the list? Anybody know where we might find him? -- //-Walt // // The Volkl Conspiracy |
#17
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Mounting alpine bindings
"Walt" wrote in message ... If I'm buying a car, I can check lemon lists and recall notices. If I'm buying software, I can find out what the supported versions are. Why not bindings? If you are buying new bindings, the shop and manufacturer will work together to increase the likelihood that your experience will be pleasant and safe. If you are buying used bindings, they don't give a crap about you. They want you to buy new bindings. |
#18
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Mounting alpine bindings
Chester Bullock wrote:
Walt wrote: Well, that's not why I want to see it. I often troll the ski swaps looking for used gear, and I'd like to know whether the bindings are still supported by the manufacturer. Is this too much to ask? I agree with you Walt, it would be good to know what is 'supported' these days and what is not. I would think this would be good for the industry, as people might pony up for new bindings when they see that the ones they could by are not 'supported' any more. No, what would be good for the industry is for everyone to buy new gear every year. The cynical side of me says that they're hiding the indemnification list to curtail the used-gear market. "Watch out, don't buy used gear - there's no way to know whether it's obsolete or not" Heck, the whole indemnification scam is there to make people throw away perfectly functional (if perhaps obsolete) equipment. I don't know of any other product where the manufacturers have this ability to obsolete an item by fiat. It looks like, from the NSSRA site, that I could get the list for a membership, which is $120. If we all pitch in we could get it out into the world. I don't see any real reason why it shouldn't be out there for everyone to see. Chances are it's copyrighted, so even if I paid the $120 I wouldn't be allowed to reproduce it. And it's not worth it to me since I can always call up the shop and ask about a particular model for free. My hunch is that after 10 calls they'd probably just give me a copy of the list to keep me out of their hair. Related question: Is this also what some people refer to as being 'out of DIN'? I think 'out of DIN' happens when you want to set your DIN to eleven and your bindings only go up to ten. (c: -- //-Walt // // The Volkl Conspiracy |
#19
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Mounting alpine bindings
Chester Bullock wrote:
Related question: Is this also what some people refer to as being 'out of DIN'? No. As I understand it, when a shop tests a binding (most shops will only test an indemnified binding) they set it to the proper DIN release number on the binding scale; they then test the torque required to release; if it's too different from the torque the scale implies the binding is "out of DIN." Alternative way to look at it: they set the DIN on the binding to that required to provide the appropriate torque for the user using their test rig; if the binding scale then doesn't read within a certain tolerance of the appropriate number from the charts the binding is "out of DIN." It catches some types of wear and malfunction on the binding; usually however, it's just a spring that's slightly off, and if the binding is set to the appropriate torque and in the middle of range nothing is the worse. The trick off course is to get the torque set without test gear, since shops won't set a binding that's "out of DIN." |
#20
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Mounting alpine bindings
Walt wrote:
The Real Bev wrote: Walt wrote: Seth Masia wrote: I have the indemnification list, but I won't make it public, either. Sorry. If I'm buying a car, I can check lemon lists and recall notices. If I'm buying software, I can find out what the supported versions are. Why not bindings? ... A while back omebody posted a link to the 2002-3 list published by snowtradenews. I tried to find it but couldn't. IIRC, Snowtradenews and www.snowtradenews.com went belly-up last March. Here's an idea: Maybe we could find the former editor and ask him nicely to post the list? Anybody know where we might find him? I repeat: Duh! -- Cheers, Bev ================================================== ======= "If you watch TV news, you know less about the world than if you just drank gin straight from the bottle." - Garrison Keillor |
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