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#11
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Walt wrote:
VtSkier wrote: Mary Malmros wrote: This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical, but...I think I would have left some of those details out of your post, on the off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and read it (like, maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next time... Yeah, you're a little over critical, BUT you're right. The details written were the kind of thing that goes into an eye-witness report for the area's risk management file. Where it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again. I strongly disagree with this approach. Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it out in the open. I totally agree with you. Nothing wrong with what you posted. Accident descriptions are something else, but this is viewing a patient being actively worked on and evacuated. |
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#12
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On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 16:38:14 GMT, Jon C
wrote: Walt wrote: VtSkier wrote: Mary Malmros wrote: This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical, but...I think I would have left some of those details out of your post, on the off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and read it (like, maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next time... Yeah, you're a little over critical, BUT you're right. The details written were the kind of thing that goes into an eye-witness report for the area's risk management file. Where it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again. I strongly disagree with this approach. Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it out in the open. I totally agree with you. Nothing wrong with what you posted. Accident descriptions are something else, but this is viewing a patient being actively worked on and evacuated. I saw something similar on Sunday. After finishing my weekly hockey game, we saw the emerge team wheeling a heart attack victim off the other pad. "I think that gay marriage should be between a man and a woman." -Arnold Schwarzenegger, during the California recall campaign |
#13
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"Walt" wrote in message news:WdzCd.754 written were the kind of thing that goes into an eye-witness report for the area's risk management file. Where it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again. I strongly disagree with this approach. Not necesarily. A death would normally result in some sort of investigation by some outside organization or other. These details would be made available. If nothing else, I think the family of the patient would insist on this. At the very least some form of debriefing would take place among the emerg care workers involved. IME details of this sort of thing have not been hard to come by. While I disagree with any type of active concealing of information, should the resort be making everything as public as possible? Reading the news story on this one I got a fairly clear picture of what happened. What more should have been shared? Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it out in the open. To what end? Discouraging people from trying the sport? Its a pretty rare skier who doesn't, on some level, understand there is a risk involved. I think that risk is quite well managed by most resorts I ski. Whether the motivation is for the protection of their guests or to cover their own backside is irrelevent, it still results in a safer experience for everybody. |
#14
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Mary Malmros wrote:
This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical, but...I think I would have left some of those details out of your post, on the off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and read it (like, maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next time... Maybe, maybe not - Most of what was in the report indicates that the patrol was doing everything possible for the fellow. A high level of response IMO. Might be comforting to relations? Some comments on the report - some mention was made of response time/evac time. IMObservation generally a patrol response arrives at a ski accident much faster than an emergency vehicle arrives at a road accident; the first aid and life support capabilities of a well trained patrol are generally very high (minus truck carried equipment, of course); and sled evac is very quick - just a few minutes to first aid where de-fib and other equipment is available. All in all, I suspect for most accidents and heart/stroke type problems you'd get a better response time at a major ski mountain (if you're on-piste) than in the general world. Of course hitting a tree is sort of like walking out into traffic without looking - you're likely coming out second best. |
#15
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Norm wrote:
"Walt" wrote in message news:WdzCd.754 written were the kind of thing that goes into an eye-witness report for the area's risk management file. Where it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again. I strongly disagree with this approach. Not necesarily. A death would normally result in some sort of investigation by some outside organization or other. These details would be made available. If nothing else, I think the family of the patient would insist on this. At the very least some form of debriefing would take place among the emerg care workers involved. IME details of this sort of thing have not been hard to come by. While I disagree with any type of active concealing of information, should the resort be making everything as public as possible? Reading the news story on this one I got a fairly clear picture of what happened. What more should have been shared? Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it out in the open. To what end? Discouraging people from trying the sport? Its a pretty rare skier who doesn't, on some level, understand there is a risk involved. I think that risk is quite well managed by most resorts I ski. Whether the motivation is for the protection of their guests or to cover their own backside is irrelevent, it still results in a safer experience for everybody. I agree with this. All of the interviews we did and all that the risk managers collected was shared with the state police who were the investigators of the Killington accident two years ago. |
#16
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Paul Christofanelli wrote:
Walt wrote: Yep. Not enough data. But the probability that exactly 3 snowboarders and 1 skier are hurt assuming a random pick is 25%. yep. The probability that more snowboarders than skiers would be hurt in that group of 4 assuming 'random' accidents is 31.25%. yep. What does all this mean ... not really anything. yep. But we can assert this at the 95% confidence level. Anecdotally, it does seem that more snowboarders are hurt in general but it could have something to do with who's mostly in the 'trauma parks'. So far this season Colorado has seen four deaths on the slopes. Two were boarders who hit trees, one was a boarder who had a seizure, and the fourth was a ski racer who collided with a snowmobile. (http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...608415,00.html) -- //-Walt // // There is no Volkl Conspiracy |
#17
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Norm wrote:
"Walt" wrote in message news:WdzCd.754 A death would normally result in some sort of investigation by some outside organization or other. These details would be made available. If nothing else, I think the family of the patient would insist on this. At the very least some form of debriefing would take place among the emerg care workers involved. IME details of this sort of thing have not been hard to come by. Details about a specific fatal accident are usually in the paper. Comprehensive statistics about injuries are not available. At least I can't find anything. Maybe you could tell me, say, the number of tib-fib fractures in the 2003-2004 season in the US? This data is collected by each individual resort, but the data is kept private (secret). While I disagree with any type of active concealing of information, should the resort be making everything as public as possible? Yes. Within the bounds of individual privacy. Why the sececry? Are they drafting an energy policy? Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it out in the open. To what end? Discouraging people from trying the sport? Providing information so that people can make an informed decision. Is that too much to ask? Its a pretty rare skier who doesn't, on some level, understand there is a risk involved. And that assessment of risk is probably erroneous. Is it more or less dangerous than driving on the highway? I doubt most people know the answer. I think that risk is quite well managed by most resorts I ski. I have no idea what this sentence means. -- //-Walt // // There is no Volkl Conspiracy |
#18
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Walt wrote:
So far this season Colorado has seen four deaths on the slopes. Two were boarders who hit trees, one was a boarder who had a seizure, and the fourth was a ski racer who collided with a snowmobile. Um, make that six. http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...633317,00.html My condolences to the families and friends left behind. -- //-Walt // // There is no Volkl Conspiracy |
#19
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Mary Malmros wrote:
This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical, but...I think I would have left some of those details out of your post, on the off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and read it (like, maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next time... I'm a mom. I think I would seek out every scrap of information on my dead kid that I could find. Not yelling, I just think you're wrong. -- Cheers, Bev ================================================== ==== I am grateful that I am not as judgmental as all those censorious, self-righteous people around me. |
#20
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On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 10:36:16 -0500, VtSkier
wrote: http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pb...501040405/1002 As long as we're on the tragedy parade: http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews...0_20050104.htm Mt. Holly isn't big, but it doesn't take much vert to develop lethal velocity... Tragic. bw |
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