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#21
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"foot2foot" wrote Because in most cases, it has taken people *years* to move from the bunny hills to parallel skiing on the blues. That's why almost all new skiers quit after the first day. This system solves that problem. Are you talking about those "ski three times a year" kinda people? I've witnessed no less than five people of very different background start skiing parallel on their first or second day with very little external influence. They all had grave problems with more difficult terrain though, Exactly. The magic turns system is what enables a very new skier to take the steep greens and the blues within hours. Well, if this is the case (blues within hours), than this is of course totally worth preaching. Going straight on a flat board just isn't a good idea. Some people have great problems with it, some are just fine. It depends a lot on how their bindings are set up (highback forward lean and angles). I can set up mine to have a lot of stability just bombing on flat board, but this makes other things less comfortable. Especially for a beginner No? First useful thing a beginner usually learns is J-turns, which essentially is going from flat to lots of edge. And the major issue is, just like with skis, they're waaay to far back on the board. |
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#22
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"LePheaux" wrote I could understand something like this when learning to snowboard (in fact, that would be really great and save a lot of broken tailbones), but for skis it should only be good for reeeeally athletically challanged chikens. It's OK dumbass We know you don't catch on quick if at all. **** off, moron. |
#23
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foot2foot wrote:
"Dave M" wrote in message How young do you think this can start? Should someone, say four or five, be doing this? Dave M If you're speaking abou the skiing, before age six you run into a child who thinks magically. Everything is fantasy and they really can't understand cause and effect. As such you have to make learning into game and fantasy. After about age six, they move into concrete thinking, and you can explain and they understand. Otherwise, yes. You want them in home position, and forward on the skis. I was speaking of my daughter who is 4 and a very crucial (in her mind) half. She has been on skis for two seasons already and enjoys it a lot. I was just rying to figure out how to explain your ideas to her in a way that she can a) understand and b) follow or if she is too young for the magic turn idea altogether. DAve M. |
#24
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Dave M wrote:
I was speaking of my daughter who is 4 and a very crucial (in her mind) half. She has been on skis for two seasons already and enjoys it a lot. I was just rying to figure out how to explain your ideas to her in a way that she can a) understand and b) follow or if she is too young for the magic turn idea altogether. What happens if you say "Follow me down the hill"? Can she turn to follow you even if she doesn't know what she's doing? Like teaching a kid to ride a bicycle -- take the pedals off and pretty soon the kid can balance long enough to pedal when you put them back on. The result is what counts, not the intellectual process by which it was arrived at. -- Cheers, Bev ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is. |
#25
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"foot2foot" wrote in message ...
OK, Britt wants to know the difference, (he claims, maybe he just wants more argument for argument's sake) and it actually comes up all the time, you try to explain magic turns and sooner or later somebody pipes up and says "yeahhh that's just the old stem christy". But it's not. People have for all modern skiing time learned to ski in a wedge for the most part. The question then arose and still does, how do you get the student to move from wedge turns into making parallel turns, often called "matching the skis"? Actually, I use the terms differently, though they may reflect the same predicament. The "Wedge" remains the same old Wedge as you described, however, the "Stem" takes on a different meaning. Imo, the wedge turns are the fundamental/foundation of downhill skiing. Some may claim that they learn how to skiing begin with parallel skiing, and that "seems" to be very cool; however, as for the "all terrains" capability goes, a good knowledge on how the wedge works is indispensable, as the wedge stance and wedge turn maybe the only techniques to get one out of a tight spot such as in the high sierra boulders and glades. Figure that we all know how the wedge turn works; let's now take a look the problems that hold back the beginners, the "Stem." The "Stem" happens mostly at the half way through a wedge turn when the downhill/outside ski exhausts its turning power and yet the uphill/inside ski refuses to take over the responsibility of supporting the skier's weight (due to fear, maybe?), which causes the downhill/outside ski heavy and traveling faster than the uphill/inside ski, which distorts the V into asymmetric shape and causes the uphill/inside ski gets caught on the inside edge--the skier is "stemmed." The "stemmed" edge wedges vertically as well, thus prevents turning, and with the straightened inside knee pushes the ski downward, the skier only ends up crash. The "stem" is the worst offender to prevent the beginners to progress into parallel turn, methinks. The solution? Un-stem it, that is, flatten the stemmed edge so the edge would slide outward and downward, which is actually the proper curved path of a downhill/outside ski. How? By bending the uphill/inside knee slightly while still maintaining the proper V, let the whole "platform" slides and turn to where the V point points. If the balance were maintained, the skier would have turned it. Today, use magic turns. One more tip, when "matching the skis," always bring the uphill/inside ski back on the uphill/outside edge, which would prevent you from getting caught on the downhill/inside edge, or get "stemmed." fwiw, have funs, IS ...... |
#26
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"foot2foot" wrote in message ... "LePheaux" wrote in message ... I don't think it could have been explained any better. BTW you say you ski the North Wet. The *whole* NW. More the east north west now, for the quality of the snow, and the scary wilderness, old times atmosphere factors. when can I get you out here to the Seattle area to do some turns, and maybe have you give my second year*skiers a lookover and a tuneup? I'll pick up your ticket /lunch and beer. You're more likely to catch me in Canada, Wyoming, Idaho or Montana this year. But, the beauty of this system is, you *can* explain it in text or aloud, and people can use it. For more experienced skiers, you can teach to the mechanics of skiing. The real trick comes in watching the skier and figuring out what's wrong. Are they skiing with their shoulders, hands falling back, leaning to the outside, or inside too far? Are they rotating all the way through the turn? Could they use more flexion and extension, can they steer effectively? Etc. But, when people have the magic turns framework, they can do it. I know of a ten year old (eleven this year) who teaches magic turns and makes skiers out of beginners. He's starting to pick up on the mechanics of the ski, and how to help more advanced skiers by teaching to them. I'm thinking you totally missed the person to person hey how ya doing wanna do some in person type interfaceing that means drink beer, not.. Reading how to teach / learn is like masturbating compaired to real sex. it just doesn't get it done. my kids will continue to take professionel lessons by some of the best i've seen. If you would like to see how *you* messure up to the real INSTRUCTORS come on out and do an evaluation. and be evaluated at the same time. Till then keep on keeping on. no face time. no value. |
#27
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"LePheaux" I'm thinking you totally missed the person to person hey how ya doing wanna do some in person type interfaceing that means drink beer, not.. Reading how to teach / learn is like masturbating compaired to real sex. it just doesn't get it done. my kids will continue to take professionel lessons by some of the best i've seen. If you would like to see how *you* messure up to the real INSTRUCTORS come on out and do an evaluation. and be evaluated at the same time. Till then keep on keeping on. no face time. no value. Yea, sort of like a Jekyll and Hyde thing, huh? Bad poster - good poster. If there ever was a *real* battle of the instructors, in which they actually teach and are measured on the results they get, I'd show up for sure. But there never will be, because the last thing most instructors want to have looked at is how well they actually teach. They'd rather look pretty in formation, and believe that means something. |
#28
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"Dave M" wrote in message news:ANqsd.441017$wV.105768@attbi_s54... foot2foot wrote: "Dave M" wrote in message How young do you think this can start? Should someone, say four or five, be doing this? Dave M If you're speaking abou the skiing, before age six you run into a child who thinks magically. Everything is fantasy and they really can't understand cause and effect. As such you have to make learning into game and fantasy. After about age six, they move into concrete thinking, and you can explain and they understand. Otherwise, yes. You want them in home position, and forward on the skis. I was speaking of my daughter who is 4 and a very crucial (in her mind) half. She has been on skis for two seasons already and enjoys it a lot. I was just rying to figure out how to explain your ideas to her in a way that she can a) understand and b) follow or if she is too young for the magic turn idea altogether. DAve M. You could try to explain it but I doubt you'd have much luck yet. She would just interpret it in terms of fantasy. The pieces probably wouldn't connect as they should. Muscle memory is the key to teaching really young kids. You could ski backward and grab her feet and manipulate them to show her what's up. You could demonstrate in exaggeration and ask her to mimic you. Follow me stuff works a lot of the time. If you can create games, it really helps with pre school kids. She's probably in the backseat. Some say, that age of child must be in the backseat due to the size of the head, but I don't think that's always true. Lots of different activities on the skis in which she picks up the tail of a ski (directly under her, not to the side) and leaves the tip on the snow will naturally work into the disappearing of the wedge. Home position games work as well. Keep from spilling the hot chocolate cups, that kind of thing. She could probably understand home position and be able to produce it if you ask her to, then it will incorporate into her skiing. Hopefully she has some kind of "almost twin tip ski", you can have her hold her poles out in front of her with both hands horizontally, and use those as a means to push her backward up the hill. For this to work, she'll need to resist your push with her stomach and arm muscles. This too will help to teach her muscle memory for parallel skiing. Push her up backward, let her go to some terrain stop. Repeat. Most kids really like that as well. To be honest, at that young of an age it really doesn't matter. She's years ahead of most people who will learn to ski anyway, and she'll get better and better soon enough. But then again, it certainly doesn't hurt to take the time to work with her to help her improve. If you wanted to know how I explain the basics to anyone age six/seven or older, I could go into that, it's really easy. |
#29
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"yunlong" wrote in message Actually, I use the terms differently, though they may reflect the same predicament. The "Wedge" remains the same old Wedge as you described, however, the "Stem" takes on a different meaning. Imo, the wedge turns are the fundamental/foundation of downhill skiing. I'm going to throw up another post about the relationship between the wedge and the slipped parallel turn. I have to agree with you on this point. Some may claim that they learn how to skiing begin with parallel skiing, and that "seems" to be very cool; however, as for the "all terrains" capability goes, a good knowledge on how the wedge works is indispensable, as the wedge stance and wedge turn maybe the only techniques to get one out of a tight spot such as in the high sierra boulders and glades. Figure that we all know how the wedge turn works; let's now take a look the problems that hold back the beginners, the "Stem." The "Stem" happens mostly at the half way through a wedge turn when the (I remove "uphill" here from "uphill/outside"). ******/outside ski exhausts its turning power and yet the (I remove "downhill here from "downhill/inside"). I so remove so I can understand this a bit more easily :) ********/inside ski refuses to take over the responsibility of supporting the skier's weight (due to fear, maybe?), which causes the **/outside ski heavy and traveling faster than the /inside ski, which distorts the V into asymmetric shape and causes the **/inside ski gets caught on the inside edge--the skier is "stemmed." The "stemmed" edge wedges vertically as well, thus prevents turning, and with the straightened inside knee pushes the ski downward, the skier only ends up crash. The "stem" is the worst offender to prevent the beginners to progress into parallel turn, methinks. It's garbage. It should die a deserved death just like any further mention at all of "uphill or downhill ski". The solution? Un-stem it, that is, flatten the stemmed edge so the edge would slide outward and downward, which is actually the proper curved path of a l/outside ski. How? By bending the uphill/inside knee slightly while still maintaining the proper V, let the whole "platform" slides and turn to where the V point points. If the balance were maintained, the skier would have turned it. One more tip, when "matching the skis," always bring the **/inside ski back on the **/outside edge, which would prevent you from getting caught on the **/inside edge, or get "stemmed." Then of course, I imagine that you would be referring to what in modern terminology would be "pinky edge" and big toe edge"? |
#30
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"foot2foot" wrote in message ...
"yunlong" wrote in message Actually, I use the terms differently, though they may reflect the same predicament. The "Wedge" remains the same old Wedge as you described, however, the "Stem" takes on a different meaning. Imo, the wedge turns are the fundamental/foundation of downhill skiing. I'm going to throw up another post about the relationship between the wedge and the slipped parallel turn. I have to agree with you on this point. Some may claim that they learn how to skiing begin with parallel skiing, and that "seems" to be very cool; however, as for the "all terrains" capability goes, a good knowledge on how the wedge works is indispensable, as the wedge stance and wedge turn maybe the only techniques to get one out of a tight spot such as in the high sierra boulders and glades. Figure that we all know how the wedge turn works; let's now take a look the problems that hold back the beginners, the "Stem." The "Stem" happens mostly at the half way through a wedge turn when the (I remove "uphill" here from "uphill/outside"). ******/outside ski exhausts its turning power and yet the (I remove "downhill here from "downhill/inside"). I so remove so I can understand this a bit more easily :) "Downhill" and "uphill" are used to reference the skis position in relation to the slope, and "inside" and "outside" are used to reference the ski position in relation to the turning, most the time they are referring the same ski, but there are circumstances that they are different (e.g. turning downward on the upper part of a vert, or the like). ********/inside ski refuses to take over the responsibility of supporting the skier's weight (due to fear, maybe?), which causes the **/outside ski heavy and traveling faster than the /inside ski, which distorts the V into asymmetric shape and causes the **/inside ski gets caught on the inside edge--the skier is "stemmed." The "stemmed" edge wedges vertically as well, thus prevents turning, and with the straightened inside knee pushes the ski downward, the skier only ends up crash. The "stem" is the worst offender to prevent the beginners to progress into parallel turn, methinks. It's garbage. It should die a deserved death just like any further mention at all of "uphill or downhill ski". Most beginners only know "uphill" and "downhill" as they haven't figured out what is inside or outside of a turn as they don't know what a turn is. The solution? Un-stem it, that is, flatten the stemmed edge so the edge would slide outward and downward, which is actually the proper curved path of a l/outside ski. How? By bending the uphill/inside knee slightly while still maintaining the proper V, let the whole "platform" slides and turn to where the V point points. If the balance were maintained, the skier would have turned it. One more tip, when "matching the skis," always bring the **/inside ski back on the **/outside edge, which would prevent you from getting caught on the **/inside edge, or get "stemmed." Then of course, I imagine that you would be referring to what in modern terminology would be "pinky edge" and big toe edge"? That would work, as long as they identify the proper edge and their functions. IS |
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