Climbing techniques

To be read here : http://www.fasterskier.com/racing3876.html apparently even
the world's elite are not yet sure how to climb tomorrow's final climbing
stage in the Tour de Ski.
As far as I understnad it will be a hunt race, first at the summit wins the
TdS?

Best info I can find is that the ladies will do 10km, men 15km. and the
racers calling it steep.

Any predictions, possible unusual techniques we may be seeing?
Special climbing gear perhaps? Shorter ski and poles to increase cadance?
Or, gask, even waxless classic skis?

Have races like this taken place in modern times?

Discuss!

Dear Jan:

One wag, and it may have been Vegard "Terminator" Ulvang, joked that
some racers were considering using climbing skins. Then again, maybe
he wasn't joking. . .

Seriously, we may see some single-sticking, something I've never seen
skiers at that level use. (This will be a freestyle race, won't it?)

Maybe it will play out as a tactical team race, with the faster flats
skiers setting pace and breaking wind for their team members who are
good climbers, kind of like bicycle racing.

Randy
Jan Gerrit Klok wrote:
To be read here : http://www.fasterskier.com/racing3876.html apparently even
the world's elite are not yet sure how to climb tomorrow's final climbing
stage in the Tour de Ski.
As far as I understnad it will be a hunt race, first at the summit wins the
TdS?

Best info I can find is that the ladies will do 10km, men 15km. and the
racers calling it steep.

Any predictions, possible unusual techniques we may be seeing?
Special climbing gear perhaps? Shorter ski and poles to increase cadance?
Or, gask, even waxless classic skis?

Have races like this taken place in modern times?

Discuss!

The profile is so steep that, unless there is an actual wind
blowing down the slope, I don't think drafting will make any
difference at those speeds. And it's like a pursuit start isn't it?
So the team-mates of the top contenders can't start with them.
Of course, breaking wind has another meaning, but I don't
think Randy meant that.

I believe I saw something on the official site about them
forcing the course, where that alpine slope is steepest,
to do some back-and-forth across the slope,
with hairpins, so that then they could then ban the use of skins
or similar devices.

On that site (or maybe elsewhere?) the claim was made that this
will be the longest climb ever in a WC race.
I believe that is false, unless they require a climb, by definition,
to be at something greater than 4%. My counterexample takes
me back to the good old Birken, which was a WC race in 2002
at least, maybe other times as well.
The initial climb there is pretty gentle (about 4% to 5%),
but way longer in distance, and bigger in elevation gain as well.
But this one tomorrow averages something ridiculous, over 13% IIRC,
of length about 3 km. The gain looks to be a bit over 400 meters,
whereas that one from Rena is more like 600 meters over about 13 km.

Best, Peter


wrote:
Dear Jan:

One wag, and it may have been Vegard "Terminator" Ulvang, joked that
some racers were considering using climbing skins. Then again, maybe
he wasn't joking. . .

Seriously, we may see some single-sticking, something I've never seen
skiers at that level use. (This will be a freestyle race, won't it?)

Maybe it will play out as a tactical team race, with the faster flats
skiers setting pace and breaking wind for their team members who are
good climbers, kind of like bicycle racing.

Randy
Jan Gerrit Klok wrote:
To be read here : http://www.fasterskier.com/racing3876.html apparently even
the world's elite are not yet sure how to climb tomorrow's final climbing
stage in the Tour de Ski.
As far as I understnad it will be a hunt race, first at the summit wins the
TdS?

Best info I can find is that the ladies will do 10km, men 15km. and the
racers calling it steep.

Any predictions, possible unusual techniques we may be seeing?
Special climbing gear perhaps? Shorter ski and poles to increase cadance?
Or, gask, even waxless classic skis?

Have races like this taken place in modern times?

Discuss!

It's going to be a fascinating stage. The "handicap" will prevent the
kind of team tactics we saw in today's mass-starts (at one point during
the race I counted six Norwegians in the first nine, and there were
five Norwegians in the top 10 finishers, including Eldar Rønning in
first), but there still might be some "towing" on the slopes if, say,
Frode Estil and Tor Arne Hetland are together on the hill. And of
coruse there might be some big l'Alpe d'Huez-style collapses, too.

Check out
http://www.tour-de-ski.com/fr/etape/...formation.html
for much, much more on the stage and the tour. For what it's worth, I
made some predictions about the winners on my blog
(http://www.tassava.com/blowing_and_drifting/):
Women: 1) Kuitunen; 2) Bjørgen; 3) Saarinen
Men: 1) Angerer; 2) Northug; 3) Estil

I hope someone records & shares the stage!

Christopher

tassava wrote:
Check out

(http://www.tassava.com/blowing_and_drifting/):

Check your date on this

Well, I just saw the live Men's race (don't tell me the ladies results
please, those will be broadcasted later on). It was amazing. Not sure where
the course was shortened and why, as it was just 33min of skiing now. As
there were some changes of pace and corners, for world class athletes
certainly not undoable.
Angerer won it, and did so relatively easily. The data on the web are quite
contradicting, does anyone know his true height and weight? He seems like
quite a musclar man, but did hold his own, showcased supremacy.

I like these really extreme steep hills, they should put them in World cups
more often, though perhaps more as a chance for the strongest racers to make
attacks or close gaps.

Indeed some rare technique were shown, but I did get the impression most
racers were pretty uncomfortable or unprepared. Angerer had a pretty natural
way of moving, not so overwhelmed, in control. Were some favorites
unprepared for this?
The Russian (sorry, forgot his name) looked really agressive and must have
set a time a minute faster even than Angerer. Extremely impressive skiing.

Hardly any spectators along the course. Perhaps winter spirit only really
hits as the man-made snow goes? Of course this race is new, spactators
didn't know what they were going to be missing.

What about a much longer but more moderate hill climb time trial for next
year's Tour de Ski? Just a few of these really steep bits to make it nice
for viewing.

I hope someone recorded this for all enthusiasts here to download, it was
quite a spectacle.




"Jan Gerrit Klok" schreef in bericht
.. .
To be read here : http://www.fasterskier.com/racing3876.html apparently
even
the world's elite are not yet sure how to climb tomorrow's final climbing
stage in the Tour de Ski.
As far as I understnad it will be a hunt race, first at the summit wins
the
TdS?

Best info I can find is that the ladies will do 10km, men 15km. and the
racers calling it steep.

Any predictions, possible unusual techniques we may be seeing?
Special climbing gear perhaps? Shorter ski and poles to increase cadance?
Or, gask, even waxless classic skis?

Have races like this taken place in modern times?

Discuss!

Hardly any spectators along the course. Perhaps winter spirit only really
hits as the man-made snow goes? Of course this race is new, spactators
didn't know what they were going to be missing.

I was there on the final climb and I can say you that in the last km and
skiers were between two walls of shouting enthusiast people!
It has been a great day of sport!!!

Ale

"ale" schreef in bericht
...
I was there on the final climb and I can say you that in the last km and
skiers were between two walls of shouting enthusiast people!
It has been a great day of sport!!!

Ale

I envy you!

The Dutch commentator said that it could have been much more crowded. And
the potential sure is there, wait till they repeat this finale next year...

I liked the pile-up of tired athletes like 1 foot behind the finish line. At
the men's finish the organisation or helpers just took everyone's skis off
and let the men lay there, but with the ladies there was hardly room to
finish and find a place to drop down :-)

Jan Gerrit Klok wrote:
"ale" schreef in bericht
...
I was there on the final climb and I can say you that in the last km and
skiers were between two walls of shouting enthusiast people!
It has been a great day of sport!!!

Ale

I envy you!

The Dutch commentator said that it could have been much more crowded. And
the potential sure is there, wait till they repeat this finale next year...

I liked the pile-up of tired athletes like 1 foot behind the finish line. At
the men's finish the organisation or helpers just took everyone's skis off
and let the men lay there, but with the ladies there was hardly room to
finish and find a place to drop down :-)

That's because the ladies ran first, and the organizers were smart
enough to learn from this relatively small field before the larger and
denser men's pack arrived!

Terje

--
-
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

Peter H. wrote
But this one tomorrow averages something ridiculous,
over 13% IIRC, of length about 3 km.

Yes, looking at a shorter segment of the profile graph, I calculated a
steepness over 14% grade, averaged over about 380 vertical meters in 2.6 km
horizontal. (about 1250 vertical feet in 1.6 miles)

Very few paved roads are that steep that sustained for that long. I think
that's significantly steeper than any continuous 2.6 km in the mountain
stages of the Tour de France. I couldn't skate up that without taking many
stops for rest.

But by lift-served downhill skiers' standards, I think average 15% steepness
is something like an easier "blue" slope -- and I think some "blue" slopes
("more difficult") have an average steepness grade over 30%.

Ken