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#1
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Birkebeiner strategy?
Hi everyone,
I just signed up for the Norwegian Bikrebeiner in March. I have never done any arranged ski event. My skiing has been mostly freestyle, but this year I have been doing about 50% classic. I do not really know how I rate compared to other folks, but I do know that at 100kg, my performance on climbs is not very good. A few times I have been skiing (classic) with some cycling buddies, and I can't keep up with them enough to even see how far behind I am! The have all be skiing since they could walk, whle I started as an adult, so I like to belive technique has something to do with it. I can hang with these guys on a bike, but I think the steeper inclines one finds out skiing are more decisive than any small hills out on the road. Anyway, I am excited about the Birkebeiner and am busy preparing myself mentally. The big question is what sort of pace should I attempt, and what sort of time should I expect? If I have some idea of my expected time I can better prepare mentally for the level of exertion. The 89km MTB version of the Birkebeiner takes me a little over 4 hours. What does that sort of translate into for the ski version? Considering all the climbing, my 100kg will certainly mean it will take me a while. Any suggestions? I do lots of long distance bike race/rides (250km+) so I am no stranger to suffering. The question is what level of exertion? I have lots of experience on a bike with regulating my speed and exertion level, but it is much more difficult for me on classic XC skis. Any tips? Thanks! Joseph |
#2
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Hi Joseph,
Having done the race three times, let me make a couple of suggestions. Maybe I'm underestimating your pace, but I'd assume you'd need something over 5 hours out there. So, with your experience on the bike, you probably have a good idea of what the right level of exertion would be for that. Even better than guessing, bring along your heart-rate monitor and use it to keep from starting too fast. The climbs really aren't steep at all, they just go on forever, so that might be better for you, from what you say. At least, at 100kg., the 3.5kg. pack you carry will be a more negligible percentage than for some. Do at least one long ski with that pack (loaded), more to make sure there's no chafing or similar problem. It's too light, and the descents are too easy, for the pack to be a big problem in technical skiing. I'm jealous, but maybe next year for me, when I'm at the bottom of my age category (and, unfortunately, so is Ola Kvaale---Terje will know to what I refer!) Best, Peter |
#3
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Peter H. wrote: Hi Joseph, Having done the race three times, let me make a couple of suggestions. Maybe I'm underestimating your pace, but I'd assume you'd need something over 5 hours out there. So, with your experience on the bike, you probably have a good idea of what the right level of exertion would be for that. Even better than guessing, bring along your heart-rate monitor and use it to keep from starting too fast. The climbs really aren't steep at all, they just go on forever, so that might be better for you, from what you say. At least, at 100kg., the 3.5kg. pack you carry will be a more negligible percentage than for some. Do at least one long ski with that pack (loaded), more to make sure there's no chafing or similar problem. It's too light, and the descents are too easy, for the pack to be a big problem in technical skiing. I'm jealous, but maybe next year for me, when I'm at the bottom of my age category (and, unfortunately, so is Ola Kvaale---Terje will know to what I refer!) Best, Peter I have gone out a few times with the pack and it works fine. It's the same one that I used for the bike version. As I understand it, the bike version descents are much more technical (not very!) and I had no problems there. And it is quite true that 3.5kg for me is minimal. Long slight inclines might just suit me well. I don't have good leg speed so my max speed without poling isn't very high. Poling speed is ok, but I have a heavy upper body so I think poling is not very efficient for me. An incline that requires a somewhat slow but long stride would suit me perfectly. If it is steep, my weight starts becoming a big problem. I'm 35, right at the bottom of my class, but I don't think that will help me any! :-) I haven't used my HRM while skiing. Where I ski is quite hilly in terrain, with essentially no flat sections, so the effort level varies in the extreme, so I haven't bothered, figuring it would just show max all the time. My max HR on a bike is about 190. I can maintain 185 for short periods, but for a 5 hour bike ride I'd like to keep the max below 165. Do you think these numbers would apply ok to skiing? I have many, many km on the bike to attest to these HR values, but how do they apply to skiing? Joseph |
#4
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I haven't used my HRM while skiing. Where I ski is quite hilly in terrain, with essentially no flat sections, so the effort level varies in the extreme, so I haven't bothered, figuring it would just show max all the time. My max HR on a bike is about 190. I can maintain 185 for short periods, but for a 5 hour bike ride I'd like to keep the max below 165. Do you think these numbers would apply ok to skiing? I have many, many km on the bike to attest to these HR values, but how do they apply to skiing? Not so sure that bike HR's and the Birkeinbeinerrennet course HR's translate so well. For one at the start like you be at 170 just 'cause you'll be psyched. My advice is just go out and ski it and see how you feel before looking at your HR. Your HR will take an hour to settle. By then you'll be well on your way to the first plateau. It's up there that you can get a fix on how you feel. The grades are not bad, but as you know, they go on forever. I am your weight and have similar training backround. LSD. In general, once you're settled in skiing at "AT" or marathon ace pace of 165 BPM makes sense on the up grades and flats. I do think that the pack adds to the effort. As long as you dodn't go out too hard you'll be fine. I used to get behind a real old skier someone 40+ years than I am. I figure anyone who has skied marathons for 50 years knows how to pace themselves, and if they're near me then they are good pacers. This ploy would not work at Birkeinbeinerrennet, but now with new starting system it should. Have fun. Gary Jacobson Rosendale, NY |
#5
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After looking at the times for the corresponding bike event
(and you're about half my age!), my 5 hour estimate is probably unduly pessimistic. But it does depend a lot on conditions. I see no reason why the HR numbers you give for cycling shouldn't apply to a ski race, if upper body fitness is okay. But Gary is right to say that it takes a while for the HR to settle in, maybe more like 10 minutes for me than an hour. Best, Peter |
#6
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Peter H. wrote: After looking at the times for the corresponding bike event (and you're about half my age!), my 5 hour estimate is probably unduly pessimistic. But it does depend a lot on conditions. I see no reason why the HR numbers you give for cycling shouldn't apply to a ski race, if upper body fitness is okay. But Gary is right to say that it takes a while for the HR to settle in, maybe more like 10 minutes for me than an hour. Best, Peter I think the 5 hour may be pretty acurate. I am a much better cyclist than skier. But we'll see! Today I wore my HRM while skiing. 1.5 hours classic then 1.5 hours freestyle. Going along at a very comfortable pace classic I was about 140. Pushing it 150. At 160 I was fried. I could not maintain 160 for anyting but very short burst up short steep hills. At 160 my shoulders and thighs burned most, but it felt like oxygen was the weak link. I was gasping. Strange. While going freestyle, I almost couldn't get my HR below 150. I felt I had a smooth continuum up to 170. Above 170 was only possible for short bursts. On the bike my timetrial zone is about 175. I guess I need to calibrate myself! At 140 classic I am at the threshold of breathing through my mouth. I can force myself to breathe through my nose, but it feels strained. At 150 I was right at the level where I needed to pay attention to keeping the exertion level up, otherwise it would sink a bit. Joseph |
#7
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I've read (and felt) that classic skiing averages 10 beats/min lower than
skating. Not as many "big" muscle groups involved. Would that explain a classic marathon as feeling relatively "easy" when compared to a skate marathon? JK wrote in message oups.com... Peter H. wrote: After looking at the times for the corresponding bike event (and you're about half my age!), my 5 hour estimate is probably unduly pessimistic. But it does depend a lot on conditions. I see no reason why the HR numbers you give for cycling shouldn't apply to a ski race, if upper body fitness is okay. But Gary is right to say that it takes a while for the HR to settle in, maybe more like 10 minutes for me than an hour. Best, Peter I think the 5 hour may be pretty acurate. I am a much better cyclist than skier. But we'll see! Today I wore my HRM while skiing. 1.5 hours classic then 1.5 hours freestyle. Going along at a very comfortable pace classic I was about 140. Pushing it 150. At 160 I was fried. I could not maintain 160 for anyting but very short burst up short steep hills. At 160 my shoulders and thighs burned most, but it felt like oxygen was the weak link. I was gasping. Strange. While going freestyle, I almost couldn't get my HR below 150. I felt I had a smooth continuum up to 170. Above 170 was only possible for short bursts. On the bike my timetrial zone is about 175. I guess I need to calibrate myself! At 140 classic I am at the threshold of breathing through my mouth. I can force myself to breathe through my nose, but it feels strained. At 150 I was right at the level where I needed to pay attention to keeping the exertion level up, otherwise it would sink a bit. Joseph |
#8
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Peter H. wrote: After looking at the times for the corresponding bike event (and you're about half my age!), my 5 hour estimate is probably unduly pessimistic. But it does depend a lot on conditions. I see no reason why the HR numbers you give for cycling shouldn't apply to a ski race, if upper body fitness is okay. But Gary is right to say that it takes a while for the HR to settle in, maybe more like 10 minutes for me than an hour. Best, Peter I have been thinking about the 5 hour estimate, and have been trying to calibrate myself now that I have new gear that makes a huge difference. Looking at the profile for the bike race: http://birkebeiner.no/dokumenter/loy...tt2005_v11.pdf And the profile for the ski race: http://birkebeiner.no/dokumenter/profil_renn2005.pdf (notice one goes right-left, the other left-right) I am starting to think the bike race has steeper climbs, and I will not be as severly handicapped by my weight during the ski race. Less steep would certainly help me. But I maybe am not as bad on steep as I think. My local area has a loop I do often. I don't know if it is 5 or 6 km (they made changes so the map is not correct) but I do know it has over 100m of ascent. I can do 4 laps at a very comfortable pace in 55 minutes. This is at a pace I feel I could maintain for several hours. So 15-24 km with 400m of short steep climbs in about 1 hour. What does that mean for the 5 hour estimate considering my 100kg? Joseph |
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