Skier etiquette

It's about safety, not conservation of effort.

JFT

Right!

Which person has a less chance of careening into the trees??

:^]

jw

Gene Goldenfeld wrote:
Sure, one comment doesn't exclude others. I find "on your left"
(often
add "hi") in an appropriate tone usually suffices for both a warning
and
a greeting.


No, honking may not work sometimes, unintentionally. One time one
faster skier was behind me on a public trail. He passed me and while on
my side he gave me a lecture saying that he yelled for track. With cold
snow whick made "crunching" sound, and wearing head gear (head band
that cover my ears) I really couldn't hear the guy. I said "I didn't
hear you, yell LOUDER." I usually am not the slowest skier on the
trail, when I pass I wait till I find a wide section to step out to
pass. Let us respect everyone's ski skills. This could be different
when I am racing.

Bryant,
I believe it was in the fall of 1996 that Skiing Magazine (it may
have been it's sister publication Ski Magazine) had a full page
editorial concluding that "cross country skiing is a sport that does not
deserve to exist".

[You (and the rest of the world) can be fully pardoned for perhaps
never finding time valuable enough to read Skiing Magazine]

That column (they later claimed) was meant to be humor, but the
writer was no Dave Berry. The classic basis of humor, logic interrupted,
just was not there. It came off more as mean spirited.

No Bryant, you actually took MY bait. The concluding statement in the
Skiing Magazine column , that our sport does not deserve to exist, has
forever stuck in my mind.

The tragic example of this is Nazi Germany. The mentally retarded
were never a threat to Germany. They were simply annoyed by them. They
failed to meet an artificial standard - and they convinced enough people
that they didn't deserve to exist.

Cross Country Skiing failed to meet another person's artificial
standard. The process Nazi Germany used involved name calling the
victims, and defenders for the victims.


sknyski wrote:
[Just a historical note: Nazi Germany passed legislation so they could
legally round up the mentally retarded and exterminated them, as well
as
jews, gypsies, and homosexuals.]

Bruce, thanks for taking the bait. I used the term "retarded" just to
see if some uptight p.c. moron would call me on it. Turns out that
that uptight p.c. moron is you.

Bryant


If you don't get my point, it doesn't mater.

If the government agrees cross country skiing does not deserve to
exist, I'll be busy with much more important things to do.

I'm out of this thread, by the way.

Cheers,
Bruce Freeburger

On 24 Jan 2005 19:10:28 -0800, "JP(CA)" wrote:

One time one
faster skier was behind me on a public trail. He passed me and while on
my side he gave me a lecture saying that he yelled for track. With cold
snow whick made "crunching" sound, and wearing head gear (head band
that cover my ears) I really couldn't hear the guy. I said "I didn't
hear you, yell LOUDER."

You forgot something, you shoud have said, "I didn't hear you, yell
LOUDER, jackass."

JFT

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"JP(CA)" wrote in message
ups.com...
Gene Goldenfeld wrote:
No, honking may not work sometimes, unintentionally. One time one
faster skier was behind me on a public trail. He passed me and while on
my side he gave me a lecture saying that he yelled for track. With cold
snow whick made "crunching" sound, and wearing head gear (head band
that cover my ears) I really couldn't hear the guy. I said "I didn't
hear you, yell LOUDER." I usually am not the slowest skier on the
trail, when I pass I wait till I find a wide section to step out to
pass. Let us respect everyone's ski skills. This could be different
when I am racing.


He yelled for track and this was not a race? He had plenty of room on your
side? He was in a hurry and still had plenty of time to give a lecture?
That's three strikes. He's out! Just forget him.

BarryT

It's seems to me this is just another case where there are no hard and
fast rules, and shouldn't be.

Giving warning when overtaking ...
* If I'm on a relatively busy trail system, I do not give warning to
each and every person I ski by. But, I will often say a word or two,
i.e., "hello" as I go by.
* If I'm on a ski trail with few people, I will give a little warning,
i.e., "Coming up behind you" or just cough or something to avoid
startling the person.

Warning on a downhill ...
* If the overtaking is happening on a downhill, my rules change a
bit. If a person is not in my way (i.e., they are on one side of the
trail and seem to be in control), I often blow right by without
warning. Basically, if I am going to startle the person and cause them to do
something unpredictable, I would much rather they do it once I have passed
than while I am still behind them. This is for their safety and mine.

Yelling track ...
* The only time I would consider yelling track is during an
interval-start race on a single-track classic course.
* In a mass start race on a single-track course, I would ask someone
to let me by, i.e., "Coming by ...".
* In a mass start race on a double-track course, I would just use the
other track. I passed a bunch of slower skiers (e.g., doing the 22k)
during the Seeley Hills classic last weekend and did not yell track
once. It's far easier just to switch tracks.
* In training, I would always ski around someone unless they were
blocking the trail. In this case, I would say something like "Coming
by .... or On your left ..."

Meeting oncoming skiers on hills ...
* What to do depends on the people involved.
* If both skiers have skill, then it's best if the downhill skier skis
down one side of the trail allowing the uphill skier to use most of
the trail (i.e., to skate or herringbone uphill).
* If one or neither skier has skill, it's best if the uphill skier
yields to the downhill skier, i.e., steps off to the side during the
passing. How much time the uphill skier needs to yield depends on the
circumstance - I generally just step to one side as the skier
comes by.

Cheers,
Brian

In article ,
wrote:
I've seen faster skiers pass with no warnings given, only to startle
the slower skiers who had no idea anybody was behind them. It can
be a disastrous reaction. I do the same thing when I'm biking, just
think it's common courtesy. BC

I think skiing etiquette is changing with modern grooming. Trails are
usually wide enough to pass easily, often with classic tracks on both sides
and a skating lane down the middle. The overtaking skier is usually more
skilled and in better condition so it is much easier to move around the
slower skier. The last thing you want to do is yell track at a novice
skier, have them fall all over the trail, then have to either stop or fall
yourself to avoid running over them. On a deserted trail it is a good idea
to greet them before passing so they are not startled by someone suddenly
coming out of nowhere from behind them.

On the other hand, many slower skiers will move out of the track if they
notice a fast skier coming up behind them. This would also be considered
good etiquette, as would a "Thank you" from the passing skier.

When I first skied, most trails were single track, usually set by the first
skiers out after a snow fall. At that time good etiquette was for the
slower skier to step aside and let the faster skier past. It was often
diffult to pass in the deep snow and it made no sense for everyone to follow
around behind the slowest skier. If the slower skier didn't notice you
approaching from behind it was considered good form to call out "Hi ya" or
"Track please" to let them know you wanted by. This procedure was
considered to be good etiquette by both the slower and faster skier.

At about that time I had friends return from a trip to Norway. It was their
impression that was the system there as well. They did notice that some
tourists failed to give track and that those people were to some extent
ostracized by the otherwise friendly Norwegians when they got back to the
lodge. Their impression was that the Norwegians were much more formal about
giving track to the overtaking skiers than were Canadians.

I also learned what not to say when passing. I was skiing on a single track
and came up behind a shapely young lady and called out "Track please" As
she stepped out of the track she said "I heard you coming". I though she
was implying I was out of breath from trying to catch her and replied
"Coming? I'm not even breathing hard." I immediately realized that could
be taken the wrong way and decided the dipolmatic thing to do was to keep
skiing and hope she didn't take it the wrong way. When I finally got back
from skiing several more trails all my friends knew what I had said and I
got a real ribbing.

Scott

Anders wrote:
Trails are usually more than wide enough to accompany two skiers (a
fast one and yourself) without the faster one having to call out a
warning each time. (...)


The fact is that some slower skiers do get startled by faster skiers
who whizz by them because from their very subjective point of view the
trail is not wide enough and/or the faster skier passes too close for
comfort.
Etiquettewise this is just as importnat as their objective safety - and
the relevant questions are whether we should startle them or not and,
if not, how could we best avoid causing them any displeasantness.


IMHO there are two rules: 1) Do not appear like a bolt out of the blue;
make some noise (kick loudly, cough, whistle, whatever) *well before
you´re at his/her tail* and 2a) Switch tracks or hop into the skating
lane/ *in good time* or 2b) make your skating movement narrower(so that
it´s immediately obvious to the slower skier than there´s no need for
him to jump anywhere to avoid a collision or to escape your fury) .
There´s usually no need to issue any explicit warning.

However, if the passee moves aside it´s polite to thank (and if you
have the time, to add "It´s the faster skier who moves aside,
though!").


Anders

How about skiing real quiet until you're about 6 feet behind then
shout out BLARRRR !! Either they jump right out of the track (great,
carry on) or die of fright (ski over them). Problem solved.

I just came into this conversation and as a new naive skier, I wouldnt want
to embarrass myself out there so I looked up what I should know on the
trails. I need a web link to the terms that will be "yelled at me" till
then, I'm reading the posts here.

a.. Stay in control by adjusting your speed to conditions.

b.. Do not obstruct ski trails or intersections.

c.. Do not stop where you are not visible to oncoming skiers.

d.. Always ski on the right-hand side of the trail.

e.. Downhill skiers have the right-of-way.

f.. If you fall, get to the right side of the trail quickly, then fill in
your sitzmarks.

(What in the world is a sitzmark!)

a.. Don't ski on closed trails or foot trails.

http://www.offpistemag.com/themag/ba...tiquette2.html








"BarryT" wrote in message
.. .

"JP(CA)" wrote in message
ups.com...
Gene Goldenfeld wrote:
No, honking may not work sometimes, unintentionally. One time one
faster skier was behind me on a public trail. He passed me and while on
my side he gave me a lecture saying that he yelled for track. With cold
snow whick made "crunching" sound, and wearing head gear (head band
that cover my ears) I really couldn't hear the guy. I said "I didn't
hear you, yell LOUDER." I usually am not the slowest skier on the
trail, when I pass I wait till I find a wide section to step out to
pass. Let us respect everyone's ski skills. This could be different
when I am racing.


He yelled for track and this was not a race? He had plenty of room on your
side? He was in a hurry and still had plenty of time to give a lecture?
That's three strikes. He's out! Just forget him.

BarryT

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A "sitzmark" is the mark you leave when you suddenly "sitz" --i.e., the divot you leave if you fall in the middle of the trail.

If the trail is pretty hard-packed, you won't leave much of a hole, and won't have much to fill. in that case, I usually don't worry about it. However, if you leave a crater that will then be there to catch another skiier (especially at places like the bottoms of hills, outsides of turns, etc), filing it or packing it out is a courtesy. Also, if it's at the bottom of a blind hill or around a blind corner, make sure there is no oncoming traffic so you yourself don't become the trail hazard (or have a sitzmark inflicted on your body!)

;o)

Chris Cline, SLC, UT.

Where the sitzmarks are becoming shallower and shallower. Send more snow from the NE, please!



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DIV
BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"
PA "sitzmark" is the mark you leave when you suddenly "sitz" --i.e., the divot you leave if you fall in the middle of the trail.  /P
PIf the trail is pretty hard-packed, you won't leave much of a hole, and won't have much to fill.  in that case, I usually don't worry about it.  However, if you leave a crater that will then be there to catch another skiier (especially at places like the bottoms of hills, outsides of turns, etc), filing it or packing it out is a courtesy.  Also, if it's at the bottom of a blind hill or around a blind corner, make sure there is no oncoming traffic so you yourself don't become the trail hazard (or have a sitzmark inflicted on your body!)/P
P;o)/P
PChris Cline, SLC, UT./P
PWhere the sitzmarks are becoming shallower and shallower.  Send more snow from the NE, please!/P/BLOCKQUOTE/DIVp
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Yahoo! Search presents - a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=30648/*http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/jibjabinaugural.html"Jib Jab's 'Second Term'/a
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