Race tactics for midpackers?

I'm wondering if I should bother with fooling around with race tactics
as a desperate midpacker.

For instance, if as we come into the last 5 km of a 25km race, say, and
I see a couple rivals 200 yds ahead I was thinking I should test to see
if I could close in on them. If I *could* my tactical idea was to stay
back aways so as to not panic them then wait til the end to do a massive
kilo assault and nip em at the line. Is that silly?

The downside as I see it would be that in XC you usually have to fight
for every inch, so if you find yourself gaining on someone pass their
ass asap and you'll probably find that last inch of gain coming at the
finish line anyway, in the usual morbid-grind style.

But maybe grinding up on them provokes them into a max effort as well
thus causing everyone more hurt than need be. So I'm thinking maybe it's
more clever to see if you can gain and if it looks doable then get a
certain gap and wait to the end to close it. Save a little energy then
really put the express train on for the last kilo...and avoid making it
a grind.

Then there's the fitness equation to consider. If your rivals are
generally fitter than you are and you're just getting a better wax ride
that day or just have better finish speed than they do, why let them use
their big engine on you for the last 5km? Get them to take it somewhat
easier, too...then beat em with yer sprint. Well, with your kilo.

I guess you'd have to guesstimate how much of a gap you can close versus
the spook factor. Say, 100-150 yds makes them think you're done for but
might not be too much to close in the last km. At 200 yds you'd probably
need 2km to close which seems like too much for an overdrive effort:
best is to hover a little closer which is doable if the trail is twisty
near the end.

Scheming, scheming...as I haul wheelbarrow loads of logs....

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself culture...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies...
...rare books on ski, bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller
about smalltown smuggling ... more radical novels coming up!
...original downloadable music ... and articles galore!
plus national "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!

One thing you might find helpful:

When I see rivals ahead of me and try to reach them,
I instinctively lean forward - and shift weight on my toes
-which is very wrong.

Seat back, maintain heel push and cover gap inch by inch.

I figure I'll continue with whatever my race pace is and ignore those around
me. Then I decide how (or whether) I want to go out of my head to beat somebody
in the last K or so.

I get too riled up if I worry about who;s around me any earlier than the end.
I'd rather just relax and push myself to my threshold and hold it than worry
about other people.

Now if I was a front-pack guy, I'd think of it more like bike racing and would
want to pay lots more attention for the "breakaways". I'm more of a
"time-trialer" regarding race tactics. About the only time I'll put in a big
surge in mid-race is because I'm trapped behind somebody who's keeping me
slower than my desired pace.


Eric "Shmo" Chandler
Duluth, MN

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This is something I've noticed more in biking, but I think a lot of speed can be gained in transitions. I used to race bikes (road), and I've noticed when riding with non-racers (or non-ex-racers?) that I usually gain ground on them wherever there's a transition requiring a gear shift, or a quick move out of the saddle for a few pedal strokes, or powering over the top of a little hill and on down the first 20-50 yards (rather than slowing towards the top of the hill).

I've never been that good at XC, and transitions-- requiring a quick shift in technique, or a quick burst of speed-- seems to be where I get dropped on skis. Intellectually, I know my weaknesses, but seem to be powerless (pardon the pun) to keep from getting dropped.

So, it seems to me that a good race tactic for a midpacker would be to work on those transitions, and milk speed out of each one. Strive to get through each corner or over each hill gaining a little ground rather than losing it.

Just my 2 cents--
Chris Cline
SLC

Laurent Duparchy wrote:
Start fast
accelerate in the middle
Sprint at the end


More seriously. Training the sprint aspects is also a MAJOR point in
any sport and particularly in XC. This enforce a good coordination.

It's always tricky to pass over someone in XC. You more or less always
have to sprint, watch your steps and (long) poles and others steps and
(long) poles. This is even more difficult in race where your
neighborhood pace is not really different from yours.

Don't understimate the drafting gain.
Don't understimate other midpackers INABILITY to draft properly...

So, don't do it "blindly" and prepare it well.





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DIVThis is something I've noticed more in biking, but I think a lot of speed can be gained in transitions.  I used to race bikes (road), and I've noticed when riding with non-racers (or non-ex-racers?) that I usually gain ground on them wherever there's a transition requiring a gear shift, or a quick move out of the saddle for a few pedal strokes, or powering over the top of a little hill and on down the first 20-50 yards (rather than slowing towards the top of the hill)./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVI've never been that good at XC, and transitions-- requiring a quick shift in technique, or a quick burst of speed-- seems to be where I get dropped on skis.  Intellectually, I know my weaknesses, but seem to be powerless (pardon the pun) to keep from getting dropped./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVSo, it seems to me that a good race tactic for a midpacker would be to work on those transitions, and milk speed out of each one.  Strive to get through each corner or over each hill gaining a little ground rather than losing it.  /DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVJust my 2 cents--/DIV
DIVChris Cline/DIV
DIVSLCBRBRBILaurent Duparchy >/I/B wrote:/DIV
BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"Start fastBRaccelerate in the middleBRSprint at the endBRBRBRMore seriously. Training the sprint aspects is also a MAJOR point inBRany sport and particularly in XC. This enforce a good coordination.BRBRIt's always tricky to pass over someone in XC. You more or less alwaysBRhave to sprint, watch your steps and (long) poles and others steps andBR(long) poles. This is even more difficult in race where yourBRneighborhood pace is not really different from yours.BRBRDon't understimate the drafting gain.BRDon't understimate other midpackers INABILITY to draft properly...BRBRSo, don't do it "blindly" and prepare it well.BRBRBRBR/BLOCKQUOTEphr SIZE=1
Do you Yahoo!?br
a href="http://shopping.yahoo.com/?__yltc=s%3A150000443%2Cd%3A22708228%2Cslk%3Atext% 2Csec%3Amail"The New Yahoo! Shopping/a - with improved product search
--0-609610901-1065115501=:31105--

So, it seems to me that a good race tactic for a midpacker would be
to work on those transitions, and milk speed out of each one. Strive
to get through each corner or over each hill gaining a little ground
rather than losing it.

Just my 2 cents--
Chris Cline

I agree 100%. A much neglected area by most folks. Well and good to
be an aerobic animal, but you can lose all momentum on the transitions.

Work on it!
Rob Bradlee

Jeff Potter wrote in message ...
I'm wondering if I should bother with fooling around with race tactics
as a desperate midpacker.

Jeff

My take on the mid-packer game is to ski your brains out along the
course. If you see someone peeking at you from up the trail, try to
grind them down ! I don't try to "save" anything for a passing sprint
the end because

A) you might not get the chance to use it as you may be finishing in a
no-mans land

B) the time you gave up along the trail behind the skier ahead to wait
for the finish to take them could have possibly moved up to the NEXT
skier up the trail (eg: two positions up instead of one)

C) there is an energy system available to all that gives 8 - 15
seconds of boost. Use it wisely & frequently. But don't save it.

D) there is little glory in snatching 528th place from the skier in
front.

So to me, it isnt really tactics, more TT like Eric said. The whole
race I try to reel in the next skier & proceed to drop them if
possible. Always. As soon as possible. I can't stand it when I can't
drop a skier. Then after a few k's I usually try to start up a
conversation if I find I can't drop them.

Should I give up my plan to the world like this ?

A friend of mine who skied up to me on Lake Hayward last year from a
wave or two behind me brought me back from the dead, and we had the
most exciting hand to hand duel coming down main street. Stroke for
stroke the entire way, he & I took opposite sides on the hard spot
right next to the fences. He got me by inches (and 10 or 20 minutes
due to his later wave-start). Gadzooks man, it was as close to the
olympics as we'll ever get with all those people on the sidewalk
cheering us on. That was the coolest finish I may ever have. We both
agreed that it was a great finish to a great Birkie. Mann...I cannot
wait to ski. I had real snow on the deck & roof this morning.

Dell

What I learned from the Birkie last year:

Think... ... and keep thinking. When you start to wander around in
your head, your feet aren't moving as fast.

Learn to descend safely and confidently. If you can descend well, you
can avoid having to pick yourself up off the ground nearly as much -
which wastes time and energy. Every minor fall is worth a few seconds.
A yard sale is worth minutes.

Power up the dips. The first 5ish strokes you do coming out of a tuck
going back up the hill can rocket you up the hill, or set you up for a
long stretch of V1. Most of us 3rd-4th wavers aren't going to make it
up all the hills on our sheer power, so taking advantage of gravity
helps keep you out of the red zone.

Pace yourself on long hills. I had to almost completely stop on Bitch
Hill to bring my HR down off max. I got cocky and thought I could just
power on over it - even though I knew I was tired. I paced myself
better after that.

The more crusing time you can spend V2 instead of slow field skate or
V1, the faster you'll go. Crossing Lake Hayward, I passed a number of
folks - not by sprinting, but by alternating field skate and V2 to keep
the pace up.

The real lesson I learned at Brikie - I never want to start out of the
last wave again:-)

Marsh

Jeff Potter wrote:
I'm wondering if I should bother with fooling around with race tactics
as a desperate midpacker.

For instance, if as we come into the last 5 km of a 25km race, say, and
I see a couple rivals 200 yds ahead I was thinking I should test to see
if I could close in on them. If I *could* my tactical idea was to stay
back aways so as to not panic them then wait til the end to do a massive
kilo assault and nip em at the line. Is that silly?

The downside as I see it would be that in XC you usually have to fight
for every inch, so if you find yourself gaining on someone pass their
ass asap and you'll probably find that last inch of gain coming at the
finish line anyway, in the usual morbid-grind style.

But maybe grinding up on them provokes them into a max effort as well
thus causing everyone more hurt than need be. So I'm thinking maybe it's
more clever to see if you can gain and if it looks doable then get a
certain gap and wait to the end to close it. Save a little energy then
really put the express train on for the last kilo...and avoid making it
a grind.

Then there's the fitness equation to consider. If your rivals are
generally fitter than you are and you're just getting a better wax ride
that day or just have better finish speed than they do, why let them use
their big engine on you for the last 5km? Get them to take it somewhat
easier, too...then beat em with yer sprint. Well, with your kilo.

I guess you'd have to guesstimate how much of a gap you can close versus
the spook factor. Say, 100-150 yds makes them think you're done for but
might not be too much to close in the last km. At 200 yds you'd probably
need 2km to close which seems like too much for an overdrive effort:
best is to hover a little closer which is doable if the trail is twisty
near the end.

Scheming, scheming...as I haul wheelbarrow loads of logs....

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself culture...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies...
...rare books on ski, bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller
about smalltown smuggling ... more radical novels coming up!
...original downloadable music ... and articles galore!
plus national "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!

Matt Morency wrote:

* Be Jeff Potter. How many people here would not be disturbed if they
knew they were racing Potter.


--Matt

All humor aside, Jeff Potter is actually a rather friendly, gentlemanly
sort in person. I know many of us come off as frightful characters on
this newsgroup, while in person we are quite harmless (or nearly so).
He was easy to pick out in Traverse City (just look for the knickers)
and gave me a great deal on the excellent memoir he was hauling around.
I was very glad to have met him in person.

Jim Farrell

Learn to descend safely and confidently. If you can descend well, you
can avoid having to pick yourself up off the ground nearly as much -
which wastes time and energy. Every minor fall is worth a few seconds.
A yard sale is worth minutes.

Not to mention having to pass all those people you worked so hard to pass
earlier! Good point.

Power up the dips. The first 5ish strokes you do coming out of a tuck
going back up the hill can rocket you up the hill, or set you up for a
long stretch of V1. Most of us 3rd-4th wavers aren't going to make it
up all the hills on our sheer power, so taking advantage of gravity
helps keep you out of the red zone.


That would be great advice on a race where you don't have to snowplow to
avoid hitting the line of skiers trudging up the next hill like in the
powerlines at the Birkie!

One other tactic, that should be applied by any skier, but works
incredibly well for the mid level skier, is to condition yourself to think
of the hill as 20 feet long than it is, and power over the top. A huge
majority of mid level skiers slow down to rest at the top. So, you
condition yourself during training, to begin your rest after the top, and
enjoy the thrill of passing people on almost every hill.

Jim Farrell wrote in message ...
Matt Morency wrote:

* Be Jeff Potter. How many people here would not be disturbed if they
knew they were racing Potter.


--Matt

All humor aside, Jeff Potter is actually a rather friendly, gentlemanly
sort in person. I know many of us come off as frightful characters on
this newsgroup, while in person we are quite harmless (or nearly so).
He was easy to pick out in Traverse City (just look for the knickers)
and gave me a great deal on the excellent memoir he was hauling around.
I was very glad to have met him in person.

Jim Farrell

My impression of Jeff from his posts is that he is a very nice guy,
not to mention extremely enthusiastic. I was merely making a joking
reference to Jeff's outlandish garb, which may distract some
competitors, disturbing their concentration during a race. I
apologize for any offense taken or hurt that I caused.
--Matt