Waxless

Originally Posted by John Forrest Tomlinson

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 08:53:22 -0600, wrote:

How many times have you been on snow now, JGK?

If I admit I laughed at that, does that make me obnoxious? I did
laugh.

JFT

Fork off with that how many days on snow rubbish. If you can't comment remotely on topic, just don't. Elitist crap, no matter how experienced and well-respected you are.

Take your nose from the white stuff so you can see the snow as well as the horizon.

I know I'm irritating you elistist folks like nothing else, and it will only get worse. When I say "told you so". I've won larger arguments in sports than this little outdated matter. And don't misunderstand, I'm just challenging views, not saying I know it all.

I'll counter with another question. How many type of stone grinds have you tested without putting wax on them? I haven't either, but surely will. I respecct those who claim that it worrks for them, or has gottem them world medails. Chew on that.

In article ,
Jan Gerrit Klok wrote:
Fork off with that how many days on snow rubbish. If you can't comment
remotely on topic, just don't.

I'm not sure how you can draw conclusions about wax without
a good amount of experience on snow (and lots of different
kinds of snow). It may have been expressed as a jibe but I
think there's a good question at its core.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 08:53:22 -0600, wrote:

How many times have you been on snow now, JGK?

If I admit I laughed at that, does that make me obnoxious? I did
laugh.

JFT

The distinction lies in appreciating the distance between Jeff and
Jan Gerrit Klok (and between Jeff and you). Humility and
graciousness go a long way. Not everyday NYC street qualities, if I
recall your location correctly.

RM

On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 09:52:38 +0000, Jan Gerrit Klok
wrote:


John Forrest Tomlinson;118935 Wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 08:53:22 -0600, wrote:
-
How many times have you been on snow now, JGK?-

If I admit I laughed at that, does that make me obnoxious? I did
laugh.

Fork off with that how many days on snow rubbish. If you can't comment
remotely on topic, just don't. Elitist crap, no matter how experienced
and well-respected you are.


I'm not saying you're right or wrong about the waxless thing (you
might be right, thought its unlikely). And you're entitled to your
opinions. I just chuckle because you're so "into" skiing w/o actually
skiing. It's bizarre.

I'll counter with another question. How many type of stone grinds have
you tested without putting wax on them? I haven't either, but surely
will.

Where? On a bikepath? I'm pretty sure a very coarse is best on
pavement. If it's on coblles use a more broken pattern.

On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 06:19:15 -0600, wrote:

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 08:53:22 -0600, wrote:

How many times have you been on snow now, JGK?

If I admit I laughed at that, does that make me obnoxious? I did
laugh.

JFT

The distinction lies in appreciating the distance between Jeff and
Jan Gerrit Klok (and between Jeff and you). Humility and
graciousness go a long way. Not everyday NYC street qualities, if I
recall your location correctly.

People in NYC think I'm an asshole too.

Thanks,

JFT

Jan Gerrit Klok wrote:
;118782 Wrote:
Waxless is for stride and glide Not for skating.

That view (presented as "fact") is being challenged more and more the
past years.

Jan we have a misunderstanding here.
'Waxless' skis with their grip pattern are not what a skater needs.

You've taken my statement on 'Waxless' skis to make a point about waxing or notwaxing
of skis which is not the subject of this post.
Mike

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 06:19:15 -0600, wrote:

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 08:53:22 -0600, wrote:

How many times have you been on snow now, JGK?
If I admit I laughed at that, does that make me obnoxious? I did
laugh.

JFT
The distinction lies in appreciating the distance between Jeff and
Jan Gerrit Klok (and between Jeff and you). Humility and
graciousness go a long way. Not everyday NYC street qualities, if I
recall your location correctly.

People in NYC think I'm an asshole too.
LOL
JFT,
Your attempts to get JP to write better are futile but you express my
own opinion of his poorly edited meanderings very well. I find your
posts smart and funny.

carry on,
Bob

Replying in general to the comments on grip tape.

I've used Start Grip tape all winter now. I'm on my second
application. The first application lasted about 60 km, and was worn
off by a day on very abrasive ice, a day when I skied about 30 km and
snow plowed on very treacherous hills- hills I would normally ski down
w/o any speed control. I believe it was that that wore off the tape
rather quickly - not normal kick and glide, turning, etc. on normal
snow. I wouldn't be surprised if I get 70+ km on the new tape since
the ice is gone (for now).

I've used the tape on new and old snow in temps ranging from about
+25F to -15F. I have not raced with it, but have skied pretty
seriously including intervals with a group of skiers who are similar
to or stronger than me in ability and fitness, and who are pretty
serious about messing with kick wax. Therefore, I think I can judge
the performance not only on how it "feels" to me, but how it works in
comparison with conventional kick wax applied by serious skiers in
training.

I have been VERY, VERY happy with the performance of the grip tape. I
have never felt that my glide - in these training/recreational
conditions - has been compromised (with exception below). The kick is
not always rock solid, but always very good and comparable with the
kick you get when you use conventional waxes - sometimes you nail it
perfectly, sometimes it's less than perfect, but works OK. In
otherwords, In well over 100 km of skiing on grip tape in a wide
variety of temperatures, I've felt that both the kick and glide has
been on average as good or better than what I would have achieved with
conventional kick wax.

The HUGE advantage is that I just put on the skis and go. This is
significant for day to day skiing: typically, like a lot of you, I
like to get in a ski at lunch time or after work. Avoiding the need
to apply kick wax specific to that day's conditions can literally make
the difference between having the motivation to get the ski in and
skipping it. It can also literally save as much as 15 minutes of prep
time, making my 30 minute ski into a 45 minute ski (or 45 into 60 -
you get the idea!). I cannot stress enough how important this is to
me and what a huge benefit it is.

I would be willing to accept quite a bit of decreased kick/glide
efficiency to achieve this benefit, but as I said above, I don't
believe I'm sacrificing much if anything at all.

Applying the grip tape is actually very easy, no more difficult or
time consuming than cleaning the kick zone, roughing it and applying a
good solid binder and wax of the day.

The only conditions that the grip tape seems to be less than stellar
is when there is a dusting of new snow in the tracks. My experience
tells me that glide is decreased. However, this goes away if there's
any glaze at all on the tracks, for instance, if you're following a
couple of skiers up ahead.

All in all I'm very happy with Start grip tape and plan to keep a pair
of skis set up with it at all times.