warm-snow wax?

Whew -- a real question about actually skiing!
I had really, really sticky skis the other day out in some warm snow the
consistency of mashed potatoes, the kind that can twist your knees off if you
catch an edge. I had on three layers of Toko System 3 yellow wax, and I thought
I'd brushed it out pretty well. But did I maybe not brush it enough? Did I need
to rill it? Was that not the right wax? Did I need specific well-above-freezing
wax?

(Dhillus) writes:

Whew -- a real question about actually skiing!
I had really, really sticky skis the other day out in some warm snow the
consistency of mashed potatoes, the kind that can twist your knees off if you
catch an edge. I had on three layers of Toko System 3 yellow wax, and I thought
I'd brushed it out pretty well. But did I maybe not brush it enough? Did I need
to rill it? Was that not the right wax? Did I need specific well-above-freezing
wax?

How well-above-freezing was it? Yellow's not universal.

--
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Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

The yellow is supposed to be good for temperatures just below freezing.

I'd use some
"Dhillus" wrote in message
...
Whew -- a real question about actually skiing!
I had really, really sticky skis the other day out in some warm snow the
consistency of mashed potatoes, the kind that can twist your knees off if
you
catch an edge. I had on three layers of Toko System 3 yellow wax, and I
thought
I'd brushed it out pretty well. But did I maybe not brush it enough? Did I
need
to rill it? Was that not the right wax? Did I need specific
well-above-freezing
wax?

The yellow is supposed to be good for temperatures just below freezing.
That could be it.

I'd use some fluorinated wax like Maxiglide or Swix F4.

Be sure you clean the old wax off really well before you put anything new
on.

"Dhillus" wrote in message
...
Whew -- a real question about actually skiing!
I had really, really sticky skis the other day out in some warm snow the
consistency of mashed potatoes, the kind that can twist your knees off if
you
catch an edge. I had on three layers of Toko System 3 yellow wax, and I
thought
I'd brushed it out pretty well. But did I maybe not brush it enough? Did I
need
to rill it? Was that not the right wax? Did I need specific
well-above-freezing
wax?

The yellow is supposed to be good for temperatures just below freezing.
That could be it.

I'd use some fluorinated wax like Maxiglide or Swix F4.

Be sure you clean the old wax off really well before you put anything new
on.

"Dhillus" wrote in message
...
Whew -- a real question about actually skiing!
I had really, really sticky skis the other day out in some warm snow the
consistency of mashed potatoes, the kind that can twist your knees off if
you
catch an edge. I had on three layers of Toko System 3 yellow wax, and I
thought
I'd brushed it out pretty well. But did I maybe not brush it enough? Did I
need
to rill it? Was that not the right wax? Did I need specific
well-above-freezing
wax?

"Jon C" writes:

The yellow is supposed to be good for temperatures just below freezing.
That could be it.

I'd use some fluorinated wax like Maxiglide or Swix F4.

I wouldn't. I'd save my money and use CH8 or CH10, depending.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

"Dhillus" wrote in message
...
Whew -- a real question about actually skiing!
I had really, really sticky skis the other day out in some warm snow the
consistency of mashed potatoes, the kind that can twist your knees off if
you
catch an edge. I had on three layers of Toko System 3 yellow wax, and I
thought
I'd brushed it out pretty well. But did I maybe not brush it enough? Did I
need
to rill it? Was that not the right wax? Did I need specific
well-above-freezing
wax?


A couple notes:

The snow you describe probably doesn't have a temperature "well above
freezing." It's probably in the neighborhood of freezing.

The choice of System 3 Yellow is probably not your problem. It's a pretty
normal wax. Conceivably an "ideal" mixture might have been 2/3 yellow, 1/3
red, or something like that, but that's just subtleties that matter when
you're worrying about tenths of of seconds -- there shouldn't be an enormous
difference. Same thing with fluoros. Yeah, they'll be faster, but whether it
will be noticeable in the absence of a stopwatch is another thing.

The mention of three layers and brushing it out confuses me slightly. The
usual procedure (as you probably know) is to wax with the iron, then scrape,
then brush out the structure. The third step isn't really essential, but a
"making it perfect" step. Actually, some people even skip the second step.
I'm not sure what you mean by "layers." If you mean you did the whole above
process three times, fine (perhaps you did more work than was needed, but
that's only a problem if your muscles get so stiff you can't use your poles
the next day). If you mean you applied hot wax three times, then scraped and
brushed, that's okay too. On the other hand, if you somehow tried to create
three distinct, visible layers on the final, waxed skis, I'm not sure what
you're doing.

In snow that's really wet, leaving a much coarser-than-usual texture (or
structure) on the base can help break up suction. That seems to be what
you're worrying about, when you ask whether you didn't brush out enough
(thereby failing to expose the base's usual structure) or suggesting you
might need to rill (creating a courser structure). In the old days, before
"structure" was even part of the vocabulary, people used to brush on
warm-snow wax and leave the brushstrokes in order to create structure. I
don't know that people use a riller to put structure in their *wax,* so much
as to put structure in their *bases.* I don't think you want to
"re-structure" your bases for one day's snow. But, then again, what do I
know: I've never even used a riller. I guess they seem like a "nordic thing"
to me.

Seems to me, though, that the "mashed potato" snow you describe, while it's
relatively high in water compared to, say, Utah powder, isn't the sort of
wet/slushy/corny conditions where super-coarse structure is an issue. Keep
in mind that heavy, unpacked snow is going to be slow for reasons that have
nothing to do with how "slick," or how hydrophobic your bases are. I mean,
you've got to push *through* the stuff. It's going to be slow, now matter
how you wax.

Dhillus wrote:

Whew -- a real question about actually skiing!
I had really, really sticky skis the other day out in some warm snow the
consistency of mashed potatoes, the kind that can twist your knees off if you
catch an edge. I had on three layers of Toko System 3 yellow wax, and I thought
I'd brushed it out pretty well. But did I maybe not brush it enough? Did I need
to rill it? Was that not the right wax? Did I need specific well-above-freezing
wax?

Three comments:
1) "Three coats"/"brushing it out" is wrong. You want to SCRAPE all the
surface wax off, or you'll stick to just about anything. Then brush out
the base structure.
2) "warm snow" is a misnomer; unless you have a snow thermometer you
really don't know the temp of the snow. The key is whether it's wet snow
i.e. surface water. If it is, AND YOU ARE RACING get some fluro powder,
and study any of several web sites on how to prep for "warm snow."
OTHERWISE see the next item.
2) Toko System 3 Yellow Wax is a store-bought product which is nearly
100% paraffin (look it up - it's true same stuff as you can get at the
grocery store for sealing canning jars; Buy paraffin at $1 per pound and
save yourself the hassle and money of speciality preps. Why waste good
money.

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:53:58 -0800, lal_truckee
wrote this crap:

Three comments:
1) "Three coats"/"brushing it out" is wrong. You want to SCRAPE all the
surface wax off, or you'll stick to just about anything. Then brush out
the base structure.

Your first run rubs off all the wax.

2) "warm snow" is a misnomer; unless you have a snow thermometer you
really don't know the temp of the snow. The key is whether it's wet snow
i.e. surface water. If it is, AND YOU ARE RACING get some fluro powder,
and study any of several web sites on how to prep for "warm snow."
OTHERWISE see the next item.

"warm snow" is 32 degrees. "Cold snow" is 32 degrees. "frozen snow"
is 32 degrees. Is there a pattern here?


2) Toko System 3 Yellow Wax is a store-bought product which is nearly
100% paraffin (look it up - it's true same stuff as you can get at the
grocery store for sealing canning jars; Buy paraffin at $1 per pound and
save yourself the hassle and money of speciality preps. Why waste good
money.

Turtle Wax is $6 a bottle, and you only use a little bit.




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"Terd Fartingmor" wrote in message
...

Turtle Wax is $6 a bottle, and you only use a little bit.

If that.