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#1
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Skating in citizen classic races
I'm guessing that the fix is:
1*Pre-race announcement of rules along with remedy (take off your bib if you want to skate) with verbal acknowledgement from the field. 2*Self-DQ---take bib off; no reason to be glum; no harm, no foul; skate as you please. 3*That should do the trick well enough, but if 1 & 2 don't work over course of a season, then place a couple feeds at top of major uphills and include a couple educated volunteers at those feeds to monitor skating and give warnings, etc. Director then DQs if need be. 4*No DQs from peers. This should be enough. Close enough will be good enough. Minor deviance seems tolerable, accidents happen, etc. Peers DQing or naming names might hurt citizen events (almost) as badly as the cheaters. Hopefully the positive steps 1 & 2 are enough. -- Jeff Potter **** *Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ... ... offering Vordenberg's XC ski tales in "Momentum"! ... ... "The Recumbent Bicycle": the only book about these bikes! ... ... Rudloe's "Potluck": true-life story of workingclass smuggling! ... ... with radical novels coming up via LiteraryRevolution.com! ... ... music! ... articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW! 800-763-6923 |
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#2
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Skating in citizen classic races
Sheesh. Is nothing sacred anymore? It's ok to skate now in a
striding race as long as you "fess up"? Let's preserve a playground for those of us who actually know how to ski. bt |
#3
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Skating in citizen classic races
sknyski wrote:
Sheesh. Is nothing sacred anymore? It's ok to skate now in a striding race as long as you "fess up"? Let's preserve a playground for those of us who actually know how to ski. It's only OK if you take your bib off. I think that would be standard. -- Jeff Potter **** *Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ... ... offering Vordenberg's XC ski tales in "Momentum"! ... ... "The Recumbent Bicycle": the only book about these bikes! ... ... Rudloe's "Potluck": true-life story of workingclass smuggling! ... ... with radical novels coming up via LiteraryRevolution.com! ... ... music! ... articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW! 800-763-6923 |
#4
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Skating in citizen classic races
At Konig Ludwig Lauf this year I saw many people skating up the steep hills.
Why? I don't know. Maybe bad wax and they don't like to herrignbone. And when I sked the Vasaloppet, I saw many people skating around the 80 km. mark.Heck, I don't think I could have skated if i wanted to. The "neuro-muscular patterning" was so deep that I wa literally skiing in my sleep that night. When I see this at first I am angry, but then I don't care. Whats there to be upset about? These folks aren't winning any pizes. Unless of course they are planning to vie for the Johann Muhlegg cheater award in the next annual Gunde Svan RSN award. Gary Jacosbon Rosendale, NY "Jeff Potter" wrote in message .. . sknyski wrote: Sheesh. Is nothing sacred anymore? It's ok to skate now in a striding race as long as you "fess up"? Let's preserve a playground for those of us who actually know how to ski. It's only OK if you take your bib off. I think that would be standard. -- Jeff Potter **** *Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ... ... offering Vordenberg's XC ski tales in "Momentum"! ... ... "The Recumbent Bicycle": the only book about these bikes! ... ... Rudloe's "Potluck": true-life story of workingclass smuggling! ... ... with radical novels coming up via LiteraryRevolution.com! ... ... music! ... articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW! 800-763-6923 |
#5
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Skating in citizen classic races
Gary Jacobson wrote:
At Konig Ludwig Lauf this year I saw many people skating up the steep hills. Why? I don't know. Maybe bad wax and they don't like to herrignbone. And when I sked the Vasaloppet, I saw many people skating around the 80 km. mark.Heck, I don't think I could have skated if i wanted to. The "neuro-muscular patterning" was so deep that I wa literally skiing in my sleep that night. When I see this at first I am angry, but then I don't care. Whats there to be upset about? These folks aren't winning any pizes. Unless of course they are planning to vie for the Johann Muhlegg cheater award in the next annual Gunde Svan RSN award. I personally don't get too peeved, but then I didn't have folks do it right in front of me. We're having some trouble in the top ten actually. There are a good half dozen teams vying for Mich Cup points. Ranking matters. Also, people like to beat each other around here, move up versus each other. We're competitive, but good sports. It's gotta be fair. I also hate herringbone at present and am almost sympathetic to someone doing diag-skate just to keep moving. If you're doing it on the flats or graduals you're saying you can't/won't do ANY classic. But really I *do* respect herringbone and want to improve and really don't want to see someone diag-skating either. A nice light herringbone is nice to see. Anyone who can do it nice deserves to go right past someone who's floundering. The skate is not an excusable way out. -- Jeff Potter **** *Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ... ... offering Vordenberg's XC ski tales in "Momentum"! ... ... "The Recumbent Bicycle": the only book about these bikes! ... ... Rudloe's "Potluck": true-life story of workingclass smuggling! ... ... with radical novels coming up via LiteraryRevolution.com! ... ... music! ... articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW! 800-763-6923 |
#6
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Skating in citizen classic races
Jeff Potter wrote:
I'm guessing that the fix is: 4*No DQs from peers. Don't agree. In smaller races, saying something to the race director about a clear and continuous (long enough) violation by a podium placer seems appropriate. It's then up to them -- and often others privately say something as well. In a Yosemite Nordic Festival 17k classic several years ago, the winner (or 2nd) was marathon skating the long downhill after the turnaround. A few of us reported it and he was dq'd, altho he had apparently already departed for Tahoe and The Great Race. Rather than creating a bad atmosphere, it actually solidifies the solidarity of those who do it right. Gene |
#7
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Skating in citizen classic races
Similar experience in the Half Vasa this year. It was so icy in spots
and wax had been stripped that many people resorted to skating just to get up some of the moderate hills. I guess I was surprised but not bothered. If you looked at the faces many of these folks were really struggling....as a frequent "bonker" I guess I just have some empathy for times when you resort to whatever will keep you moving....not that I'd do it of course What I did notice in the TV coverge of the leaders (top 60 or so) in the Vasaloppet was frequent lane shifting for no apparent reason, that does give you the legal option for a quick skate to get over to the next track...it seemed to be part of a strategy. At that level the transition is so smooth and powerfull that I believe it did allow for some acceleration. John OC "Gary Jacobson" wrote in message .. . At Konig Ludwig Lauf this year I saw many people skating up the steep hills. Why? I don't know. Maybe bad wax and they don't like to herrignbone. And when I sked the Vasaloppet, I saw many people skating around the 80 km. mark.Heck, I don't think I could have skated if i wanted to. The "neuro-muscular patterning" was so deep that I wa literally skiing in my sleep that night. When I see this at first I am angry, but then I don't care. Whats there to be upset about? These folks aren't winning any pizes. Unless of course they are planning to vie for the Johann Muhlegg cheater award in the next annual Gunde Svan RSN award. Gary Jacosbon Rosendale, NY "Jeff Potter" wrote in message .. . sknyski wrote: Sheesh. Is nothing sacred anymore? It's ok to skate now in a striding race as long as you "fess up"? Let's preserve a playground for those of us who actually know how to ski. It's only OK if you take your bib off. I think that would be standard. -- Jeff Potter **** *Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ... ... offering Vordenberg's XC ski tales in "Momentum"! ... ... "The Recumbent Bicycle": the only book about these bikes! ... ... Rudloe's "Potluck": true-life story of workingclass smuggling! ... ... with radical novels coming up via LiteraryRevolution.com! ... ... music! ... articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW! 800-763-6923 |
#8
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Skating in citizen classic races
My observation from the Masters World Cup 30K Classic in Quebec a couple of
years ago is that by far the biggest skating "problem" in high-level Classic racing is the _curves_. Any section of the course that looked sorta like a curve was a de facto "skating zone". Is that legal? It sure violates my esthetic sense what a "Classic technique" event should be. I suppose the problem with forbidding skating on curves would be consistency in _enforcement_: What would be the definable legal line between (a) a series of step-turns around a curve and (b) blatant skating? The other (possibly?) consistently-enforcable alternative rule I see would be to forbid step-turns. But that means that everybody has to either stay in the track grooves (OK by me, but doesn't work for some curves, especially downhill, and depends on snow conditions which might be different by the third lap?) -- or skid around the curve (not very racer-like). In the absence of the organizers going out and labelling in advance which specific curves must be taken in-the-groove or whatever, it seems like we're left with: "Skate like hell around every curve." If that _is_ legal, do all the "peer reporters" know it? Ken |
#9
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Skating in citizen classic races
Seems to me that skating up a hill is observably different from
herringbone -- and therefore consistently-enforceable, if there are observers. Gary Jacobson wrote At Konig Ludwig Lauf this year I saw many people skating up the steep hills. Why? I don't know. Because skating up a hill is easier and/or faster than herringbone. And switching to skating engages some different muscles than classic striding and double-poling, which helps fight against fatigue. And when I sked the Vasaloppet, I saw many people skating around the 80 km mark. I don't have a big problem with people who sincerely intended to do the whole race pure Classic, but their grip wax stopped working -- provided they are not podium-contenders. I guess Jeff's idea of removing the bib seems like a reasonable way to self-identify the situation. Maybe we could have a separate category on the official results list, say "FNC" for "Finished but Not pure Classic". Actually I feel sorry for people who try to do the whole Vasaloppet course with Classic technique. Except for that first big hill, it's a beautiful skating course -- and it was beautifully groomed for skating last year when I did the Oppet Spar Skridsko. Ken |
#10
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Skating in citizen classic races
Gene Goldenfeld wrote:
Jeff Potter wrote: I'm guessing that the fix is: 4*No DQs from peers. Don't agree. I'd have this be a last resort. The Mich scene gets along very well. I think we'll nip this well enough before it gets to hearsay, reporting, etc. -- Jeff Potter **** *Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ... ... offering Vordenberg's XC ski tales in "Momentum"! ... ... "The Recumbent Bicycle": the only book about these bikes! ... ... Rudloe's "Potluck": true-life story of workingclass smuggling! ... ... with radical novels coming up via LiteraryRevolution.com! ... ... music! ... articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW! 800-763-6923 |
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