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#21
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what does work (was looking for better technique isn't worth it)
schreef in bericht ups.com... I do that to cyclists, too, they get really nervious. the steeper the hill, the less advantage gearing has over direct power transfer (like skiing or walking). One can't ride a bike on a hill steeper tha 45 degrees, but walking up that is just fine. Skating is still not the most efficient way of power transfer, since there is a sinus of an angle involved. Which probably explains that skating does not beat classic up really steep hills (assuming perfect grip) There's this time trial up Mt. Washington (at least so I read), where runners are mere minutes slower over an hour than a cyclist. And that's a runner I never heard of vs. Tyler Hamilton in his "best" days. A ca. 10% hill I seem to remember. I wonder how skates and skates+poles compare on such hills to a bicycle. At some point a bicycle may just be a 6.8kg piece of equipment vs zero for a runner, and 2-3kg for a rollerskier. The runner and rollerskier also have the advantage of higher max heartrates, which may affect performance here. When I rollerski, I always have a buddy handy on much faster rollerblades. Makes it a great workout that sees me collapse sometimes within a minute. |
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#22
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what does work (was looking for better technique isn't worth it)
I would like to do a direct comparison between rollerskis and racing
skates. Racing skates probably have better wheels than racing rollerskis. A direct comparison would be putting the same wheels on rollerskis and skates and having the same person going up the same hill, with the same pacer on a motorcyle or whatever. I've done a ~45 min uphill rollerski race where I've been bitten by ~1% by a guy on racing skates (Vince, the owner of VOmax). I had 3-wheel rollerskis with the fastest and harderst wheels I could get my hands on. But his turnover was higher than mine. He was slipping on wet spots and I would catch up, but then he would pull away when the pavement turned dry. But he would also beat me by a similar margin in snow skiing races, so, go figure. |
#23
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what does work (was looking for better technique isn't worth it)
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:57:00 +0100, "Jan Gerrit Klok"
wrote: schreef in bericht oups.com... I do that to cyclists, too, they get really nervious. the steeper the hill, the less advantage gearing has over direct power transfer (like skiing or walking). One can't ride a bike on a hill steeper tha 45 degrees, but walking up that is just fine. Skating is still not the most efficient way of power transfer, since there is a sinus of an angle involved. Which probably explains that skating does not beat classic up really steep hills (assuming perfect grip) There's this time trial up Mt. Washington (at least so I read), where runners are mere minutes slower over an hour than a cyclist. And that's a runner I never heard of vs. Tyler Hamilton in his "best" days. A ca. 10% hill I seem to remember. My first cycling coach was the first cyclist to beat the time of the best runner up that thing. That was in the 1970s. -- JT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** |
#24
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what does work (was looking for better technique isn't worth it)
"John Forrest Tomlinson" schreef in bericht ... My first cycling coach was the first cyclist to beat the time of the best runner up that thing. That was in the 1970s. How would you guess a world class biathlete on rollerski's of choice would compare to the best runner and cyclist times? The VO2 of a runner, and some of the roll of a bicycle... |
#25
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looking for better technique isn't worth it
Experiment in better technique: skate uphill with Poling versus Skate
with no poles. My result climbing a steep hill on asphalt, grade around 10%: on the same day: * 2 times with Poling (V1), times 3:01, then 3:02 . (my best ever with Poling) * then one time No poles: time 3:16 a month ago: * No poles: time 2:54 .. (that was with a bicyclist ahead of me as a "rabbit") Poling with skating strikes me as an obvious "no-brainer" as a better technique compared with No-poles skating. But seems worth only 8%, and that's too high, because it doesn't count that my legs were getting more tired after the previous timed intervals. And my best time with V1 poling is still 4% slower than my best Legs-only time. Not the result I expected. I'll be interested to see what the difference is when I get on snow -- I hope obviosly larger in favor of poling. Ken |
#26
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looking for better technique isn't worth it
Poling with skating strikes me as an obvious "no-brainer" as a better
technique compared with No-poles skating. But seems worth only 8%, Ken, AFAIK you are a former bike and skate racer. No wonder your legs are just naturally strong and you may not feel like you need the poles at all. Mastering the poling technique and working on the upper body strength (double-poling) should provide more than just 8%. |
#28
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looking for better technique isn't worth it
Interesting report of skaters doing the famous big climb up the Mont Ventoux road in southern France: One of the skaters tried using poles, but abandoned them along the way because they didn't seem to help: http://www.rollerenligne.com/fr/articles.php?id=967 -- at least that's what I know... sometimes I think of rollerskiing as of race-walking (is that how it's called?) I.e. not the most efficient (and quite dorky-looking) way of self-propelling, but - gotta play by the rules! But see below. I ski w/o poles when I am skiing with my wife. I.e. it slows me down, and not by a meer 8%. Could it be that on snow there is a lot of slippage going on, making the power transfer from the legs less efficient as opposed to dry pavement? In this case, since the poles don't slip, you get the boost in performance. Actually, I think this is what it is. |
#29
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looking for better technique isn't worth it
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#30
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looking for better technique isn't worth it
Like one's press, beware of fans. Years ago someone told me I skated
like a teacher, when I was still stuck in the center most of the time. People on the side of the trail literally used to applaud and compliment my diagonal stride, and I was bouncing over all the place with weak poling. I accept nice words, but video is all I truly believe. rm "Ken Roberts" wrote: wrote sometimes I think of rollerskiing as ... not the most efficient (and quite dorky-looking) way of self-propelling ... Actually I get lots of favorable responses from people seeing me doing V2 skate on rollerskis. (and on inline skates I'm finding that V2 poling combined with double-push leg-stroking is rather fun) |
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