glide "cold" wax question

Years ago I learned from Jay Wenner web pages the paradigm of
waxing ;

Making a non-stick product(wax) stick on a non-stick surface (ski
base)...

I thought about that when waxing for very cold temp (-10°c -30°c)

My violet Briko is so hard that is doesn't stick on anything. For
instance, accidental droplets on a table are cleaned with a flick.
While I have hard time to remove "warm" wax droplets.

Applying it on the base, and let ski cooling, Then play with the ski
flex ; transversal cracks appear. Sometime one can even remove a whole
(small) part, leaving that part of the base open to air

I used to scrap it warm to avoid that, but just wondering if there a
special base prep for very cold wax ?
Cold wax are meant to last longer, but what if they don't actually
stick on the base ?

Is your iron set warm enough for the violet Briko? Briko's site
doesn't seem to give iron temps, but my guess would be in the
120-130C range. Flick off indicates too cold an iron. Btw, their
violet is a mid temp wax, -7/-14; blue and green look more for the temp
range you indicated.

rm

wrote:


Years ago I learned from Jay Wenner web pages the paradigm of
waxing ;

Making a non-stick product(wax) stick on a non-stick surface (ski
base)...

I thought about that when waxing for very cold temp (-10°c -30°c)

My violet Briko is so hard that is doesn't stick on anything. For
instance, accidental droplets on a table are cleaned with a flick.
While I have hard time to remove "warm" wax droplets.

Applying it on the base, and let ski cooling, Then play with the ski
flex ; transversal cracks appear. Sometime one can even remove a whole
(small) part, leaving that part of the base open to air

I used to scrap it warm to avoid that, but just wondering if there a
special base prep for very cold wax ?
Cold wax are meant to last longer, but what if they don't actually
stick on the base ?

On Jan 16, 12:24 pm, wrote:
Years ago I learned from Jay Wenner web pages the paradigm of
waxing ;

Making a non-stick product(wax) stick on a non-stick surface (ski
base)...

I thought about that when waxing for very cold temp (-10°c -30°c)

My violet Briko is so hard that is doesn't stick on anything. For
instance, accidental droplets on a table are cleaned with a flick.
While I have hard time to remove "warm" wax droplets.

Applying it on the base, and let ski cooling, Then play with the ski
flex ; transversal cracks appear. Sometime one can even remove a whole
(small) part, leaving that part of the base open to air

I used to scrap it warm to avoid that, but just wondering if there a
special base prep for very cold wax ?
Cold wax are meant to last longer, but what if they don't actually
stick on the base ?

I've never heard of difficulty with very cold weather wax
"sticking". By the way, I also wouldn't consider Briko Violet to be
cold temp. wax or very hard at all. I consider cold wax to be like
the Briko blue or green, or the blue or green flavors of other brands
such as Swix, Star, Start, etc. Now those are hard waxes and can be
difficult to heat in and scrape properly, but not that big of a deal.

Yes, it can chip off when scraping, but you avoid this by scraping
when it's still warm, then do the final scrape and brushing after it
cools fully.

Swix CH4 (Swix's coldest solid glide wax) will do what you are saying. If
you drip it on the whole ski (say tip of ski to back) and then come back to
the tip of the ski to start melting it in, the wax has already hardened and
will break off the ski. It is annoying, as your iron pushes the CH4 droplets
off the ski instead of melting them in.
To solve this issue, I was told to drip on maybe 12" (20cm) or so and iron
it in a bit while it is still molten. Just enough so it sticks to the ski.
Do small sections like that. It will stick to the ski, then once you have
the whole ski covered, you can go back and do passes down the whole base the
way you would normally iron.
Back when I used Start Green, it didn't break off like CH4, so I think CH4
is 'harder'.

It also sounds like your iron is not set warm enough for the cold waxes or
you are not giving it enough time to soak in and harden the base.
--

Paul Haltvick
Bay Design and Build - LLC
Engineering, Construction and Information Technology Services
FSx Midwest - Fischer / Swix Racing

wrote in message
...

Years ago I learned from Jay Wenner web pages the paradigm of
waxing ;

Making a non-stick product(wax) stick on a non-stick surface (ski
base)...

I thought about that when waxing for very cold temp (-10°c -30°c)

My violet Briko is so hard that is doesn't stick on anything. For
instance, accidental droplets on a table are cleaned with a flick.
While I have hard time to remove "warm" wax droplets.

Applying it on the base, and let ski cooling, Then play with the ski
flex ; transversal cracks appear. Sometime one can even remove a whole
(small) part, leaving that part of the base open to air

I used to scrap it warm to avoid that, but just wondering if there a
special base prep for very cold wax ?
Cold wax are meant to last longer, but what if they don't actually
stick on the base ?

On Jan 16, 3:57*pm, Camilo wrote:
On Jan 16, 12:24 pm, wrote:





Years ago I learned from Jay Wenner web pages *the paradigm of
waxing ;

Making a non-stick product(wax) stick on a non-stick surface (ski
base)...

I thought about that when waxing for very cold temp (-10°c -30°c)

My violet Briko is so hard that is doesn't stick on anything. For
instance, accidental droplets * *on a table are cleaned with a flick..
While I have hard time to remove "warm" wax droplets.

Applying it on the base, and let ski cooling, Then play with the ski
flex ; transversal cracks appear. Sometime one can even remove a whole
(small) part, leaving that part of the base open to air

I used to scrap it warm to avoid that, but just wondering if there a
special base prep for very cold wax ?
Cold wax are meant to last longer, but what if they don't actually
stick on the base ?

I've never heard of difficulty with very cold weather wax
"sticking". * By the way, I also wouldn't consider Briko Violet to be
cold temp. wax or very hard at all. *I consider cold wax to be like
the Briko blue or green, or the blue or green flavors of other brands
such as Swix, Star, Start, etc. *Now those are hard waxes and can be
difficult to heat in and scrape properly, but not that big of a deal.

Yes, it can chip off when scraping, but you avoid this by scraping
when it's still warm, then do the final scrape and brushing after it
cools fully.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Noel (formal Sierra Nordic owner) liked Briko waxes and had the same
recommadation as Camilo - Scrape warm. On the other hand, the Toko
folks (Ian) says that if the wax is ironed in properly, hot with no
air pockets, it should scrape cold properly.

On Jan 16, 4:24*pm, wrote:
Years ago I learned from Jay Wenner web pages *the paradigm of
waxing ;

Making a non-stick product(wax) stick on a non-stick surface (ski
base)...

I thought about that when waxing for very cold temp (-10°c -30°c)

My violet Briko is so hard that is doesn't stick on anything. For
instance, accidental droplets * *on a table are cleaned with a flick.
While I have hard time to remove "warm" wax droplets.

Applying it on the base, and let ski cooling, Then play with the ski
flex ; transversal cracks appear. Sometime one can even remove a whole
(small) part, leaving that part of the base open to air

I used to scrap it warm to avoid that, but just wondering if there a
special base prep for very cold wax ?
Cold wax are meant to last longer, but what if they don't actually
stick on the base ?

Regarding warm scraping cold race wax...if that is the way we clean
the base, by drawing out the contaminants (dirt, sap, etc) picked up
by the base during skiing, then would warm scraping the colder waxes
also draw out the wax & somewhat defeat the last layer? I would at
least repeat the final cold wax application 2 or 3 times to be sure,
if I were to warm scrape the cold wax.

Good tip I read somewhereClean & sharpen your plastic scraper, and it
shouldnt be that difficult to cold scrape the hard cold wax.

Yes, I too have noticed that some cold waxes seem to be harder than
start green (fastwax has two; white & teal, which both seem harder).

Oh finally, I do notice that a good racing base in good recently stone
ground condition is a lot easier to scrape than a low end base. My
young kids have skis with really bad base materials, they don't scrape
easily with any waxes or brushes. Maybe they arent SUPPOSED to be
waxed!?

On Jan 17, 9:37 am, delltodd wrote:
On Jan 16, 4:24 pm, wrote:



Years ago I learned from Jay Wenner web pages the paradigm of
waxing ;

Making a non-stick product(wax) stick on a non-stick surface (ski
base)...

I thought about that when waxing for very cold temp (-10°c -30°c)

My violet Briko is so hard that is doesn't stick on anything. For
instance, accidental droplets on a table are cleaned with a flick.
While I have hard time to remove "warm" wax droplets.

Applying it on the base, and let ski cooling, Then play with the ski
flex ; transversal cracks appear. Sometime one can even remove a whole
(small) part, leaving that part of the base open to air

I used to scrap it warm to avoid that, but just wondering if there a
special base prep for very cold wax ?
Cold wax are meant to last longer, but what if they don't actually
stick on the base ?

Regarding warm scraping cold race wax...if that is the way we clean
the base, by drawing out the contaminants (dirt, sap, etc) picked up
by the base during skiing, then would warm scraping the colder waxes
also draw out the wax & somewhat defeat the last layer? I would at
least repeat the final cold wax application 2 or 3 times to be sure,
if I were to warm scrape the cold wax.

Good tip I read somewhereClean & sharpen your plastic scraper, and it
shouldnt be that difficult to cold scrape the hard cold wax.

Yes, I too have noticed that some cold waxes seem to be harder than
start green (fastwax has two; white & teal, which both seem harder).

Oh finally, I do notice that a good racing base in good recently stone
ground condition is a lot easier to scrape than a low end base. My
young kids have skis with really bad base materials, they don't scrape
easily with any waxes or brushes. Maybe they arent SUPPOSED to be
waxed!?

Since I posted about warm scraping cold wax, I need to mention this:
I was just reading the latest issue of Master Skier last night and
there is an article (can't remember the title) which includes
information on cold temp/ very hard waxes. It is written by a Toko
rep (see below for FWIW quotient). This guy states pretty strongly
that if you iron correctly, you shouldn't have to warm scrape. He also
says what the poster above says - that if you warm scrape, it will
remove wax from the superficial layers, defeating the purpose.

A couple of observations: first, regardless of what they may say,
Toko's blue glide wax is not as hard or for as cold temps as the
greens put out by other companies. When it's really cold, the glide
recommendation for Toko is usually blue + cold powder, while other
lines will work similarly with just their green-type. In my
experience, scraping the "blues" from various lines is not nearly as
difficult as scraping the greens. Therefore, less of a need for warm
scraping.

Second: when I warm scrape, it really is just warm, not hot at all. I
iron one ski, put it aside, iron the next, and only scrape the first
ski when it's just warm to the touch. And, I don't scrape
aggressively, just enough to get most of the thick layer of wax off
(I tend to put cold waxes on pretty thick). I do not try to scrape
every last bit of wax off. I later scrape more thoroughly after it's
cooled completly and brush after that (and re-brush at least once,
usually after putting the ski outside to "super cool"). I believe my
method (and used by many serious skiers in cold, dry climates), does
not have the drawbacks that are mentioned in that article by the toko
rep.

Finally, I do agree with the article: it is very important to get that
cold/hard wax heated in well. The goal should be no actual whiteness
in the wax, and very little cloudiness. It requres a good wax, and
good attention to not overheating the base. This is one of the
reasons I don't skimp on the wax, where I might try to not waste as
much of the warmer waxes (which don't require as hot iron).

I use a LOT of Swix CH4 in cold temps mainly because (a) it is always
right up there with the fastest waxes in those conditions (any
differences are slight and only discovered with fairly serious
testing, which I don't do, having only one pair of good pair of each
type of skis) and (b) I can buy it in large, bulk blocks which aren't
available in the other lines (Toko, Start, Star, etc. ) around where I
live. I also really like the Star LA and NA equivalents, and
Holmenkol EC (or whatever the latest version is).

On Jan 17, 11:14 am, I wrote:


Finally, I do agree with the article: it is very important to get that
cold/hard wax heated in well. The goal should be no actual whiteness
in the wax, and very little cloudiness. It requres a good wax, and
good attention to not overheating the base. ...

I meant to write "it requires a good WAXING IRON ....

On Jan 16, 1:24*pm, wrote:
Years ago I learned from Jay Wenner web pages *the paradigm of
waxing ;

Making a non-stick product(wax) stick on a non-stick surface (ski
base)...

I thought about that when waxing for very cold temp (-10°c -30°c)

My violet Briko is so hard that is doesn't stick on anything. For
instance, accidental droplets * *on a table are cleaned with a flick.
While I have hard time to remove "warm" wax droplets.

Applying it on the base, and let ski cooling, Then play with the ski
flex ; transversal cracks appear. Sometime one can even remove a whole
(small) part, leaving that part of the base open to air

I used to scrap it warm to avoid that, but just wondering if there a
special base prep for very cold wax ?
Cold wax are meant to last longer, but what if they don't actually
stick on the base ?

Noel Charonnat's article on applying MAP Black has a lot of ideas
applicable to applying cold waxes:
http://www.fwpages.com/home/index.ph..._selection=735

Start with warm (room temp) skis.
Use a soft "base" wax that penetrates the base.

When Noel suggest scrapping warm, my interpretation is warm as opposed
to hot. But then as Toko (Ian) says, a properly ironed cold wax
should not chip.

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:37:13 -0800 (PST), delltodd
wrote:

Regarding warm scraping cold race wax...if that is the way we clean
the base, by drawing out the contaminants (dirt, sap, etc) picked up
by the base during skiing, then would warm scraping the colder waxes
also draw out the wax & somewhat defeat the last layer?

I thought so. I often let the wax cool, then quickly do another pass
with the iron right before scraping. warming the top wax but not the
wax that's "in" the ski. Or at least I imagine that.

I would at least repeat the final cold
wax application 2 or 3 times to be sure,
if I were to warm scrape the cold wax.

This is critical.


Some good info on cold weather waxing is he
http://www.skiwax.ca/index_tp.php