why hardboots?

Thanks for the post Baka... I'd tried to order the Stratos too, but
now it sounds like it's a good thing I didn't; I'm not sure I'd want
to go softer laterally than the 423's. The 423's already seem heavy to
me, I can't imagine something that makes them feel light.

But I do think I'd like a wider range of motion in the boot... I think
I might do the RAB thing, or another idea I've had was to switch to
stiffer tounges and use walk mode.

Baka Dasai wrote in message ...
On 18 Mar 2004 00:20:06 -0800, Jason Watkins said (and I quote):
I'm underwhelmed by the Raichle boots. My new ones are 423's, which I
imagine are almost the same as your 224's. They strike me as very
bulky, heavy and awkward... and the rachet buckles suck. I also don't
like how the entire shell deforms when you flex the ankle. I mean,
pick up a pair of Alpine Touring boots and see the difference...
they're designed to flex forward too (in walk mode) but they have
proper buckles, real soles with some tread, and are amazingly
lightweight. If I stick with hardboots I'm pretty sure I'll end up
trying pairs of UPS and Head boots just as alternatives. I had a
chance to try on a pair of UPS boots for a few seconds... they were
much lighter, and I remember liking how they fit. I would have bought
them this season if I could have gotten my hands on em. Same goes for
the softer versions of the head boot... but the sellers only had the
stiff race version :/.

Just as a counterpoint, I've recently switched from the Blax/Head
Stratos to the Raichle 423. To wear out a very worn cliche, these
took-my-riding-to-a-new-level. Really, they are just so much more
responsive that when I went back to the Stratos for a day I ended up
cursing myself for having let myself be held back by them for 3 seasons.

Interesting comparison. It seems like newcomers to hardbooters like
Jason and I, are rather unimpressed with the Raichle boot design and
materials. However, you seem to say that (at least for your riding
style)... that's the best there is in the US. I don't know about you,
but I just feel that there should be less issues with a $380 boot.

It's not a fit issue, 'cos the Stratos actually fit better, even
compared to the Thermofit liners in the Raichles. The Stratos are too
soft laterally (perhaps the Stratos Pro are significantly stiffer in
this regard, but somehow I doubt it). They're also not as tall. Both
these things make it easier to initiate turns, but harder to control the
turn at speed.

Makes sense, as stiffness in general tends to helps for higher speeds.
Maybe when I start learning to blaze down the slopes, I'll move into
the higher end Raichle boots...

The Stratos are much better suited to shallower angles, where the
lateral flex will be more of an advantage than a disadvantage. They'd
be good boots for a wider powder or all-mountain board.

What angles do you ride? I ride 53/48 right now, I've tried increasing
them to 55/50 and even 57/53... but it just doesn't feel right (these
were all tried with the SB224's).

Also, the Raichles are much lighter!

Wow, my 224s feel like bricks to begin with - and you say the boot get
even heavier?

I've realised even moreso how hard it is to buy boots. The things that
really matter to you when riding are almost impossible to judge when
trying them on in the shop. For instance, the lateral stiffness issue
can't be felt in the shop. You really have to ride them to know whether
you'll like them.

Have to totally agree with you there. I still need to try out my new
Oxygen Proton boots.

On 19 Mar 2004 12:15:52 -0800, Arvin Chang said (and I quote):
Interesting comparison. It seems like newcomers to hardbooters like
Jason and I, are rather unimpressed with the Raichle boot design and
materials. However, you seem to say that (at least for your riding
style)... that's the best there is in the US. I don't know about you,
but I just feel that there should be less issues with a $380 boot.

It's not that I don't have issues with the Raichles - I agree with all
the criticisms of them (except the design of the buckles don't bother me
like they bother other people). One other criticism that hasn't been
mentioned here is that the plastic seems very temperature sensitive -
they're much stiffer in the cold, whereas the Stratos never had that
problem.

What angles do you ride? I ride 53/48 right now, I've tried increasing
them to 55/50 and even 57/53... but it just doesn't feel right (these
were all tried with the SB224's).

60/54

Wow, my 224s feel like bricks to begin with - and you say the boot get
even heavier?

Yep. It's those Thermofit liners - they're amazingly light.
--
A: Top-posters.
Q: What's the most annoying thing on usenet?

On 19 Mar 2004 10:01:39 -0800, Jason Watkins said (and I quote):
But I do think I'd like a wider range of motion in the boot... I think
I might do the RAB thing, or another idea I've had was to switch to
stiffer tounges and use walk mode.

Yeah, I'm thinking along the same lines. One of:

* modified RAB
* stiffer tongue/walk mode
* softer tongue/locked mode

Everybody complains about the stiffness of the RAB, but a spring, no
matter how stiff, must give more flexibility than having the cuff locked
in place.
--
A: Top-posters.
Q: What's the most annoying thing on usenet?

Wow, my 224s feel like bricks to begin with - and you say the boot get
even heavier?

Yep. It's those Thermofit liners - they're amazingly light.

A very good point... especially when you consider that the standard Raichle
liners are ridiculously heavy. It's been so long since I've ridden in the
standard liner that I forgot how heavy they were!

Mike T

But I do think I'd like a wider range of motion in the boot... I think
I might do the RAB thing, or another idea I've had was to switch to
stiffer tounges and use walk mode.

Yeah, I'm thinking along the same lines. One of:

* modified RAB
* stiffer tongue/walk mode
* softer tongue/locked mode

Everybody complains about the stiffness of the RAB, but a spring, no
matter how stiff, must give more flexibility than having the cuff locked
in place.

Another thing to try is a booster strap. The booster strap will give you a
bit of spring and recoil.

Also I use a moderately stiff tongue... I have 325's, which come with two
pairs of race tongues. I find the softer race tongue is perfect for
freecarving. I keep the front boot locked and the back boot in freeride
mode - which is where you leave the lever down but turn the knob 90 degrees.
This gives you a range between setting 1 and 3, as opposed to full-on walk
mode which gives you freedom between 1 and 5.

Anyways, with the combination of booster strap, stiffer tongue, and rear
boot in freeride mode I've got a nice limited range of motion with some
recoil in it. I have to flex my ankle pretty deeply to get the back boot
all the way into position 1, and the boot tends to recoil on its own back
towards position 3.

If I had paid retail on my Raichles I would be quite annoyed at how much
time and money I've had to invest in tweaking and repairing them. But I
paid $110 for the boots, including a thermo liner and Intec heels - so $75
for a custom footbed, $25 for booster straps, and $10 to replace the cuff
cants is still only a total of $220. (And I can reuse the boosters and
footbeds on softies) So I'm pretty happy considering just how dialed I've
got them.

One of the things I find attractive about hard boots is that you *can* tweak
and modify them. You've got a lot less freedom to tweak and modify
softies... fortunately there are many more softuie models out there so all
you have to do is choose one that fits right

"Mike T" wrote in message ...

One of the things I find attractive about hard boots is that you *can* tweak
and modify them. You've got a lot less freedom to tweak and modify
softies... fortunately there are many more softuie models out there so all
you have to do is choose one that fits right

Personally, as you said, I would prefer to just buy on of the several
varieties of boots that fits me well the first time and not have to
spend extra money and time "tweaking" the fit. Being able to tweak
hardboots is nice (although I think much of the stuff you do with
hardboots, you can do with softboots... to a degree), however its
seems to me that you *have* to tweak hardboots much more to get a
decent fit - that's what I dislike about them.

On a separate note, I rode with my Oxygen Proton boots for half a day
yesterday. I don't know if they are the highest quality boots, but
since they fit my foot better than the Raichle 224s I had before
(which were too big) I enjoyed the ride a lot better. Their buckles
were also *very* nice compared to the Raichles. People should realize
that the 224s I had were at least a size too large for me, so it was
less a performance issues and more a foot pain issue.

Baka Dasai wrote in message ...
On 19 Mar 2004 12:15:52 -0800, Arvin Chang said (and I quote):
Interesting comparison. It seems like newcomers to hardbooters like
Jason and I, are rather unimpressed with the Raichle boot design and
materials. However, you seem to say that (at least for your riding
style)... that's the best there is in the US. I don't know about you,
but I just feel that there should be less issues with a $380 boot.

It's not that I don't have issues with the Raichles - I agree with all
the criticisms of them (except the design of the buckles don't bother me
like they bother other people). One other criticism that hasn't been
mentioned here is that the plastic seems very temperature sensitive -
they're much stiffer in the cold, whereas the Stratos never had that
problem.

Well I think part of the buckle issue was because the boot is too
begin and I need to overtighten them. Nevertheless, the Oxygen boots I
have have a much nicer buckle system (the starting point is more
angled, so you don't have to pull and flip over the latch as much (you
get more leverage), if that makes sense).

Either way, the buckle system isn't *that* bad, but I feel like to
could be easily improved.

What angles do you ride? I ride 53/48 right now, I've tried increasing
them to 55/50 and even 57/53... but it just doesn't feel right (these
were all tried with the SB224's).

60/54

Interesting, whay size feet and whawt width board to you ride?
Obviously I'm still playing with my stance setup.

Wow, my 224s feel like bricks to begin with - and you say the boot get
even heavier?

Yep. It's those Thermofit liners - they're amazingly light.

The liners are heavy, but even the shells are still heavier than my
new Oxygen Protons with liners. That's not to say the Protons are
superior, I'm just using that for comparison to show that it's not
just the liners that are heavy.

On 21 Mar 2004 14:08:34 -0800, Arvin Chang said (and I quote):
Baka Dasai wrote in message
...
60/54

Interesting, whay size feet and whawt width board to you ride?
Obviously I'm still playing with my stance setup.

Mondo 28, on a 19.5 cm wide board. Those angles give me a couple of mm
overhang on the rear foot, and a couple of mm underhang on the front
foot.
--
A: Top-posters.
Q: What's the most annoying thing on usenet?

Interesting, whay size feet and whawt width board to you ride?
Obviously I'm still playing with my stance setup.

Mondo 28, on a 19.5 cm wide board. Those angles give me a couple of mm
overhang on the rear foot, and a couple of mm underhang on the front
foot.

Just another data point:

Raichle shell, Mondo 25, Catek or TD2 step-in bindings, ~19" wide stance

18 cm waist - 57 back foot is flush with edge
18.5 waist - 55 back foot is flush (bigger sidecut than above board, means
less widening as you go out from waist)
21.5 waist - pretty much any alpine stance will underhang a bit

Mike T