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Scoot's Groups Dynamics Post
Talk about obsessing:
Iıve been very troubled for the last year by some of the group dynamics on rsa, especially by the shadow side of the Invader phenomenom and how it relates to me, so Iım going to take some time to explain what Iıve perceived and why I am choosing to refuse to participate as I have the past two years. On the positive side, the development of community has been phenomenal, and I think it is great that people from around the world are connecting, having fun, building a network, and doing some great skiing. I like most of the people I have met at invasions the past two years, and I certainly donıt intend my critique to include the vast majority of Invaders. Most of the dynamic is overwhelming to the good, and Iıve supported this development. But there is also a shadow side to the Invaders, aspects that are not positive, and as much of that shadow revolves around control, power, and manipulation. For once, Iım not going to point fingers, as these people know who they are and anyone who has watched the sublety of how this works knows. Most groups need outsiders to pit themselves against, most groups demand loyalty and acknowledgement, an d the Invader core is no different. Iıve watched the regulars who ainıt particularily fond of certain Invaders or who arenıt impressed by their intelligence, wit, or knowledge of the sport decide to withold their affiliation, though they might ski with the group or party with the group if it is convenient. I donıt think it is any coincidence that Bob Lee and klaus are frequently at odds with the Invader core, as I am. It is not that Bob and klaus oppose everybody getting together, it is that they are independent cusses who offer allegiance to nothing and no one...which is, in my humble opinion, and indication of character, discrimination, and intelligence. I also donıt think it is any coincidence that they are extraordinarily knowledgeable about skiing and they donıt suffer fools gladly. The problem arises with the Invader core group demanding loyalty to this emergin phenomena, especially to how the Invader core uses the newsgroup. As the pinnas (and others) have justifiably gotten some giggles at some of the more inane and useless posts, they have also been attacked by the Invader core in email and private conversation. Iıve witnessed the Invader core indulge in outright character assasination and slander that is truly unfair and undeserved, and I think that they would not be so criticized if they pledged allegiance to the group. Much of this goes on in private email where it cannot be exposed. I donıt like this kind of small-minded group-think, but I kept my mouth somewhat shut, figuring I might be able to convince the Invader core that they were doing things that were directly opposed to their conscious purpose of building community. Iıve also been very troubled by the dynamic of competition set up by the Invader core, especially as it relates my own perceived position as a ³leader² of rsa. With several of the core Invaders, Iıve noticed a disturbing tendency to attack and demean both me personally and what I have done for the group. Such disparagement of my motives and such distortion of my actions has truly hurt me, and leads me to write today. I donıt see any point in continuing to attempt to reason with the Invader core that is driven to tear down those who donıt agree with their perceptions of themselves, nor do I see any point in going out of my way to benefit people who unnecessarily bite the hand that has fed them (though they donıt seem to have any compunctions about enjoying the benefits of the Buddhaıs position). Iıve never had any ambition to lead anything or anyone (except to lead Buttdawg to a fence or klaus over a cliff). I know damn well that Iıve served as a catalyst here, but it happened mostly by accident, and I certainly do not perceive myself as a leader of any faction other than the Holy Church of Vail, which basically consists of me and anybody who likes my act at the moment. But the reality is that I know a lot of people who hang here, and I have a high profile, and this shtick has turned out to be quite profitable for both me and my friends in terms of being able to get some goodies out of the ski industry. Iıve never demanded loyalty to my point of view, my person, or any group as a price of my friendship....indeed, some of the people I like most are those who screw with me the most. I certainly do not demand that any of my friends refrain from criticizing me when I get out of line, or define loyalty as refraining from such criticism and attacking those who disagree with me. Nor do I limit access to the goodies Iıve been able to generate to people who blindly belong to the HCOV. This gig has become something far beyond anything I ever conceived, and I certainly havnıt planned any of this. Yet I find myself in a position where I am ³in² the industry, and I can use my contacts and access to benefit myself and others. Iım going to give these dumb****s a clue (didnıt want yıall thinking Iıd lost my mind). I have been the recipient of extraordinary generosity on the part of many rsa regulars. People like Terry and Mary, Mike and Julie, klaus, Andrew, Tabi, Bob Lee and many others have had me as a guest in their homes, skied with me, fed me, listened to me bitch about Lurleen, etc. I consider them to be dear friends, and I also accept a responsibility of karma: they have shared from their cornucopia, and when I get goodies, it is incumbent on me to also act with comparable class. Even though there has been very little I could do for those who have been so generous to me, there HAS been things I could do for the community. I pass it on. That is the ONLY reason I have for trying to scam goodies for the newsgroup as a whole. Old fashioned altruism. Doing for others what has been done for me. I get a real kick out of scamming freebies for my friends, and I am fascinated by the culture of the internet and how it can be used to cut the cost of skiing for all of us. It has really hurt my feelings to see how the Invader core has worked behind the scenes to belittle my efforts and to slander my character. Gossipy slams keep getting back to me, and Iıve watched my motives and efforts twisted beyond recognition. I donıt need this ****. Clue time, guys. The bottom line is that I can get all of the freebies I get without ever mentioning rsa. I donıt need you to take care of myself, and I donıt need you to get in the door anywhere, anymore. Just to blow my own horn, Iıve scammed literally thousands of dollars of lift tickets this year for rsa members. Several regulars are skiing on boards they either got free or at cost due to my OLIN connection. Not to mention dropping a hundred bucks myself (and Lurleen was classy enough to pop four bottles of good wine) feeding the crew in Utah. Not to mention forty bucks in long distance calls in a failed attempt arrange lodging and lift discounts in Whistler (and by the way, I NEVER asked for anything for myself from Whistler, because I thought it might detract from the presentation on behalf of the group, Indeed, the day after I met with Whistler management, I PAID for my skiing). Not to mention going two hundred miles out of my way to meet with those people in the first . Not to mention the hours Iıve spent hustling mountain managers for tickets for the group when I could have just walked out with MY tickets in hand after five minutes. Not to mention the hours Iıve spent vetting and arranging tickets for regulars, making sure that this scam can perpetuate itself. Not to mention hauling 12 pairs of skis up to Whistler, which I did NOT have to do, in any way, to maintain my K2 and OLIN connection. Not to mention the extra trip to Vashon to get the skis. Not to mention that I could have sold my skis easier and for more money if I had put them up for sale in Febuary instead of the middle of March. Not to mention the ski time I lost at Whistler arranging a space for the party, and hustling free food and booze. I will remind yıall that while I certainly eat, I donıt drink. Hell, Iıve even heard that I sucked as a ski leader when playing local at Whistler. Not to mention that I wasted a hell of a lot of time waiting on crapbugger**** skiers when I could have been skiing. In short, Iıve gone way the **** out of my way at my own personal expense wasting my own time for some people who havnıt got the grace God gave a snowboarder. Iıve been accused of self-aggrandizement, of runaway egotism, of greed, of exploiting rsa for my own profit. Everything Iıve done has been demeaned and belittled by some people in the Invader core group, mostly because they are such self-centered jerks they canıt believe anyone else might not be as manipulative as they are. Normal group dynamics. Trash anyone who has the power to oppose you, who you exploit, who does not adhere to the group conscience because he has his own, and who doesnıt the game. Iım tired of this ****. Yeah, yeah, it would be nice if a few folks gave me a HCOV butt hickey as thanks for what I did for them. But that is not the point: many invaders were as gracious as anyone could expect, and I trust they know who they are and will not be offended by this post. Iım tired of the backstabbing assholes who are so small in spirit they must see evil and meanness where none exists. Iım tired of getting trashed by cowards who wonıt bring their bull**** to the newsgroup but who do their damage behind the scenes. Iım tired of people who only see the world and this newsgroup from a narcissitic viewpoint. And I donıt see any reason to do anything for such people. Clue time again. I donıt see any point in doing favors for ungrateful jerks who turn around and slander me, and who lack the class to understand that there is such a thing as altruism. So they can blow me. I quit. Iım going to take care of my friends as best I can, but from here on out, anything I do for the group will be filtered through my own opinion of what is best for the group...and anybody who I judge to be a negative influence ainıt gonna be on my gravy train. Why should I spend my time, effort, money, and shmoozing ability for someone who is just going to take the goodies and then trash my motivations? Has nothing to do with loyalty, agreeing with me, or prostrating yourself in worship of the Prophet of the Holy Church of Vail (though doing so will certainly effect whether I put you on the goodie list). Has to do with class, with what I think is best for the group, and with whom I want to associate and bless with my favors. I wonıt even go into the people who misused my efforts, abused my generosity and ripped me and rsa off: that will come out in time. Clue time, backstabbers. I just might show for the next invasion, depending on where it is and who is going there. But I wonıt do a damn thing to help anyone I figure is part of this scumbag club. Let me give you an idea of what youıve managed to screw up for everyone else with your lack of class. When the Invasion was originally planned for Tahoe, I got on the phone and arranged free ski days at two separate resorts for everyone. Literally thousands of dollars of lift tickets, with possibly more to come. Do you think Iım going to waste my time and my money again like that, when my efforts are so misunderstood? Damn right I will....for my friends and for people I respect, and those I donıt happen to approve of can blow me and pay their own way. There is only one way to convince some of yıall that I donıt give a flying if I am viewed as a leader or not, and that is to drag the machinations of manipulative people right out in the open....and then walk away from the group. To hell with this experiment. I was planning on writing a proposal that EVERYONE could use in attempting to con freebies from mountains and gear makers. I ainıt gonna waste my time. I had plans to send those proposals around to various mountains where I have connections, and Iım not going to bother, because I can get MINE without doing so: I donıt need rsa or these dweebs. If I can take care of my REAL friends, Iıll certainly go out of my way, but I ainıt gonna do so for the group anymore without being very picky about who I hook up. Horvath was about the only person on my **** list, but now heıs got company. Enough. As you might suspect, Iım still angry, but mostly, my iddy biddy feelings are hurt. Iıve pondered this post for a long time, and in the end, Iım doing what I always do: what I feel is right and to hell with whether anybody likes it or not, or whether anybody follows me. I think that the shadow of the group needs confrontation, especially the less savory aspects of the Invader dynamic, and Iım going to continue pointing out people and actions that serve individuals rather than the community. Scott |
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#2
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Scoot's Groups Dynamics Post
GREAT! I don't even have to write the wretched history of rsa again, this
freak actually thinks he's exposing me. I see ****. I see maggots. I see the dregs of humanity, freaks without any worth or character, scum without any balls or manhood. -- ---------------------------------------------------- This mailbox protected from unsolicited email by Spam Alarm from Dignity Software http://www.dignitysoftware.com "clarencedarrow" wrote in message oups.com... Talk about obsessing: Iıve been very troubled for the last year by some of the group dynamics on rsa, especially by the shadow side of the Invader phenomenom and how it relates to me, so Iım going to take some time to explain what Iıve perceived and why I am choosing to refuse to participate as I have the past two years. On the positive side, the development of community has been phenomenal, and I think it is great that people from around the world are connecting, having fun, building a network, and doing some great skiing. I like most of the people I have met at invasions the past two years, and I certainly donıt intend my critique to include the vast majority of Invaders. Most of the dynamic is overwhelming to the good, and Iıve supported this development. But there is also a shadow side to the Invaders, aspects that are not positive, and as much of that shadow revolves around control, power, and manipulation. For once, Iım not going to point fingers, as these people know who they are and anyone who has watched the sublety of how this works knows. Most groups need outsiders to pit themselves against, most groups demand loyalty and acknowledgement, an d the Invader core is no different. Iıve watched the regulars who ainıt particularily fond of certain Invaders or who arenıt impressed by their intelligence, wit, or knowledge of the sport decide to withold their affiliation, though they might ski with the group or party with the group if it is convenient. I donıt think it is any coincidence that Bob Lee and klaus are frequently at odds with the Invader core, as I am. It is not that Bob and klaus oppose everybody getting together, it is that they are independent cusses who offer allegiance to nothing and no one...which is, in my humble opinion, and indication of character, discrimination, and intelligence. I also donıt think it is any coincidence that they are extraordinarily knowledgeable about skiing and they donıt suffer fools gladly. The problem arises with the Invader core group demanding loyalty to this emergin phenomena, especially to how the Invader core uses the newsgroup. As the pinnas (and others) have justifiably gotten some giggles at some of the more inane and useless posts, they have also been attacked by the Invader core in email and private conversation. Iıve witnessed the Invader core indulge in outright character assasination and slander that is truly unfair and undeserved, and I think that they would not be so criticized if they pledged allegiance to the group. Much of this goes on in private email where it cannot be exposed. I donıt like this kind of small-minded group-think, but I kept my mouth somewhat shut, figuring I might be able to convince the Invader core that they were doing things that were directly opposed to their conscious purpose of building community. Iıve also been very troubled by the dynamic of competition set up by the Invader core, especially as it relates my own perceived position as a ³leader² of rsa. With several of the core Invaders, Iıve noticed a disturbing tendency to attack and demean both me personally and what I have done for the group. Such disparagement of my motives and such distortion of my actions has truly hurt me, and leads me to write today. I donıt see any point in continuing to attempt to reason with the Invader core that is driven to tear down those who donıt agree with their perceptions of themselves, nor do I see any point in going out of my way to benefit people who unnecessarily bite the hand that has fed them (though they donıt seem to have any compunctions about enjoying the benefits of the Buddhaıs position). Iıve never had any ambition to lead anything or anyone (except to lead Buttdawg to a fence or klaus over a cliff). I know damn well that Iıve served as a catalyst here, but it happened mostly by accident, and I certainly do not perceive myself as a leader of any faction other than the Holy Church of Vail, which basically consists of me and anybody who likes my act at the moment. But the reality is that I know a lot of people who hang here, and I have a high profile, and this shtick has turned out to be quite profitable for both me and my friends in terms of being able to get some goodies out of the ski industry. Iıve never demanded loyalty to my point of view, my person, or any group as a price of my friendship....indeed, some of the people I like most are those who screw with me the most. I certainly do not demand that any of my friends refrain from criticizing me when I get out of line, or define loyalty as refraining from such criticism and attacking those who disagree with me. Nor do I limit access to the goodies Iıve been able to generate to people who blindly belong to the HCOV. This gig has become something far beyond anything I ever conceived, and I certainly havnıt planned any of this. Yet I find myself in a position where I am ³in² the industry, and I can use my contacts and access to benefit myself and others. Iım going to give these dumb****s a clue (didnıt want yıall thinking Iıd lost my mind). I have been the recipient of extraordinary generosity on the part of many rsa regulars. People like Terry and Mary, Mike and Julie, klaus, Andrew, Tabi, Bob Lee and many others have had me as a guest in their homes, skied with me, fed me, listened to me bitch about Lurleen, etc. I consider them to be dear friends, and I also accept a responsibility of karma: they have shared from their cornucopia, and when I get goodies, it is incumbent on me to also act with comparable class. Even though there has been very little I could do for those who have been so generous to me, there HAS been things I could do for the community. I pass it on. That is the ONLY reason I have for trying to scam goodies for the newsgroup as a whole. Old fashioned altruism. Doing for others what has been done for me. I get a real kick out of scamming freebies for my friends, and I am fascinated by the culture of the internet and how it can be used to cut the cost of skiing for all of us. It has really hurt my feelings to see how the Invader core has worked behind the scenes to belittle my efforts and to slander my character. Gossipy slams keep getting back to me, and Iıve watched my motives and efforts twisted beyond recognition. I donıt need this ****. Clue time, guys. The bottom line is that I can get all of the freebies I get without ever mentioning rsa. I donıt need you to take care of myself, and I donıt need you to get in the door anywhere, anymore. Just to blow my own horn, Iıve scammed literally thousands of dollars of lift tickets this year for rsa members. Several regulars are skiing on boards they either got free or at cost due to my OLIN connection. Not to mention dropping a hundred bucks myself (and Lurleen was classy enough to pop four bottles of good wine) feeding the crew in Utah. Not to mention forty bucks in long distance calls in a failed attempt arrange lodging and lift discounts in Whistler (and by the way, I NEVER asked for anything for myself from Whistler, because I thought it might detract from the presentation on behalf of the group, Indeed, the day after I met with Whistler management, I PAID for my skiing). Not to mention going two hundred miles out of my way to meet with those people in the first . Not to mention the hours Iıve spent hustling mountain managers for tickets for the group when I could have just walked out with MY tickets in hand after five minutes. Not to mention the hours Iıve spent vetting and arranging tickets for regulars, making sure that this scam can perpetuate itself. Not to mention hauling 12 pairs of skis up to Whistler, which I did NOT have to do, in any way, to maintain my K2 and OLIN connection. Not to mention the extra trip to Vashon to get the skis. Not to mention that I could have sold my skis easier and for more money if I had put them up for sale in Febuary instead of the middle of March. Not to mention the ski time I lost at Whistler arranging a space for the party, and hustling free food and booze. I will remind yıall that while I certainly eat, I donıt drink. Hell, Iıve even heard that I sucked as a ski leader when playing local at Whistler. Not to mention that I wasted a hell of a lot of time waiting on crapbugger**** skiers when I could have been skiing. In short, Iıve gone way the **** out of my way at my own personal expense wasting my own time for some people who havnıt got the grace God gave a snowboarder. Iıve been accused of self-aggrandizement, of runaway egotism, of greed, of exploiting rsa for my own profit. Everything Iıve done has been demeaned and belittled by some people in the Invader core group, mostly because they are such self-centered jerks they canıt believe anyone else might not be as manipulative as they are. Normal group dynamics. Trash anyone who has the power to oppose you, who you exploit, who does not adhere to the group conscience because he has his own, and who doesnıt the game. Iım tired of this ****. Yeah, yeah, it would be nice if a few folks gave me a HCOV butt hickey as thanks for what I did for them. But that is not the point: many invaders were as gracious as anyone could expect, and I trust they know who they are and will not be offended by this post. Iım tired of the backstabbing assholes who are so small in spirit they must see evil and meanness where none exists. Iım tired of getting trashed by cowards who wonıt bring their bull**** to the newsgroup but who do their damage behind the scenes. Iım tired of people who only see the world and this newsgroup from a narcissitic viewpoint. And I donıt see any reason to do anything for such people. Clue time again. I donıt see any point in doing favors for ungrateful jerks who turn around and slander me, and who lack the class to understand that there is such a thing as altruism. So they can blow me. I quit. Iım going to take care of my friends as best I can, but from here on out, anything I do for the group will be filtered through my own opinion of what is best for the group...and anybody who I judge to be a negative influence ainıt gonna be on my gravy train. Why should I spend my time, effort, money, and shmoozing ability for someone who is just going to take the goodies and then trash my motivations? Has nothing to do with loyalty, agreeing with me, or prostrating yourself in worship of the Prophet of the Holy Church of Vail (though doing so will certainly effect whether I put you on the goodie list). Has to do with class, with what I think is best for the group, and with whom I want to associate and bless with my favors. I wonıt even go into the people who misused my efforts, abused my generosity and ripped me and rsa off: that will come out in time. Clue time, backstabbers. I just might show for the next invasion, depending on where it is and who is going there. But I wonıt do a damn thing to help anyone I figure is part of this scumbag club. Let me give you an idea of what youıve managed to screw up for everyone else with your lack of class. When the Invasion was originally planned for Tahoe, I got on the phone and arranged free ski days at two separate resorts for everyone. Literally thousands of dollars of lift tickets, with possibly more to come. Do you think Iım going to waste my time and my money again like that, when my efforts are so misunderstood? Damn right I will....for my friends and for people I respect, and those I donıt happen to approve of can blow me and pay their own way. There is only one way to convince some of yıall that I donıt give a flying if I am viewed as a leader or not, and that is to drag the machinations of manipulative people right out in the open....and then walk away from the group. To hell with this experiment. I was planning on writing a proposal that EVERYONE could use in attempting to con freebies from mountains and gear makers. I ainıt gonna waste my time. I had plans to send those proposals around to various mountains where I have connections, and Iım not going to bother, because I can get MINE without doing so: I donıt need rsa or these dweebs. If I can take care of my REAL friends, Iıll certainly go out of my way, but I ainıt gonna do so for the group anymore without being very picky about who I hook up. Horvath was about the only person on my **** list, but now heıs got company. Enough. As you might suspect, Iım still angry, but mostly, my iddy biddy feelings are hurt. Iıve pondered this post for a long time, and in the end, Iım doing what I always do: what I feel is right and to hell with whether anybody likes it or not, or whether anybody follows me. I think that the shadow of the group needs confrontation, especially the less savory aspects of the Invader dynamic, and Iım going to continue pointing out people and actions that serve individuals rather than the community. Scott ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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