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French unveil new snow substitute in battle with declining snow levels:



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 23rd 04, 10:12 PM
Gav
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Default Smoking is something to share on the same seat

"Simon Brown" wrote in message ...
"Gav" wrote in message
...

I'm not a smoker but I have no problem with people lighting up on
chairlifts. It's outdoors so I don't get affected by the smoke and
the chairlift ride typically only lasts a few minutes anyway.


Lovely clean pure Alpine air spoilt by a selfish bugger with no regard for
others? Death's too good for them.



Never mind the whopping great ski installations blighting the
mountain, or the fumes from all the people driving to the resorts, or
the impact of chopping down trees to make way for pistes and lifts, or
the effect of the sewage/rubbish generated by the resort.....

If you really care about the environment that much, don't go
skiing.


Gav
Ads
  #12  
Old February 23rd 04, 10:30 PM
Simon Brown
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Default Smoking is something to share on the same seat

"Gav" wrote in message
om...

Never mind the whopping great ski installations blighting the
mountain, or the fumes from all the people driving to the resorts, or
the impact of chopping down trees to make way for pistes and lifts, or
the effect of the sewage/rubbish generated by the resort.....

If you really care about the environment that much, don't go
skiing.


If you read my previous postings on this ng you'll see that I do mind a lot.
I just find smokers to be the most selfish people around.
--
Simon Brown
www.hb9drv.ch


  #14  
Old February 24th 04, 01:14 PM
funkraum
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Default Smoking is something to share on the same seat

"Simon Brown" wrote:
"Gav" wrote in message

I'm not a smoker but I have no problem with people lighting up on
chairlifts. It's outdoors so I don't get affected by the smoke and
the chairlift ride typically only lasts a few minutes anyway.


Lovely clean pure Alpine air spoilt by a selfish bugger with no regard for
others? Death's too good for them.


guffaws

You're damn right. I loathe the smell of the burning paper and the
saltpetre which coats it in order to keep the cigarette alight. It
should be "Cigars Only" on all lifts.

And there should be a "Cigar Fast Lane" in the lift queue, in order to
wave-through persons of taste and breeding while the proletarians
are kept bottled up in some pen.

  #15  
Old February 24th 04, 01:31 PM
funkraum
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Default Smoking is something to share on the same seat

, (Gav) wrote:

[...]
If you really care about the environment that much, don't go
skiing.


You will adore this lot:


"Snobs of the mountains who look down on the rest of us."

By Melanie Reid.
1,174 words
17 February 2004
The Herald
14
English
(c) 2004 SMG Newspapers Ltd.

Maybe it's the amount of time they spend at the tops of hills that
does it, but I have never met a group of people quite as firmly camped
on the moral high ground as the rambling and mountaineering
fraternity. Oh, how pure their piety; how lofty their righteousness.
They and only they can appreciate the land, the scenery and the
wildlife; they and only they are the guardians of the nation's soul.

As far as they're concerned, there have only ever been two types of

people on the hills. There are the elite, the people like them, with a
semi-mystical appreciation of wildness and beauty, and (they think) a
Davy Crockett-like ability to leave no trace of their passing.

Then there are the others, who in their opinion frankly shouldn't be
allowed out at all. Into this group are gathered tourists, mountain
bikers, peasants in trainers, amateurs on long-distance footpaths and
skiers: the lumpen proletariat, in other words, insensitive,
uneducated and despoiling, who blunder unthinkingly into the elite's
private cathedral.

It is this second category, of course, never the first, who are
responsible for all the problems. Theirs are the ignorant feet which
erode paths until great scars appear upon the mountainsides; theirs
the pitiful mobile calls which call out rescue teams unnecessarily;
theirs the dreadful pistes and ski tows which deface the wilderness.

The fact that the elite probably make up about 2% of the hill
population, and the visitors they sneer at constitute the other 98%,
is not considered relevant. Like any minority, the ramblers and
mountaineers know that he who shouts loud and long enough will get his
voice heard, and it is the silent majority who lose out in the end.

Right now, with the revelations of the increased cost of Cairngorm's
funicular railway, and the sale of two of Scotland's ski resorts
because of a lack of snow, the woolly hats of the elite are trembling
with triumphalism. Dave Morris, the director of the Ramblers'
Association Scotland even had the nerve, in yesterday's Herald, to
tell Highlands and Islands Enterprise that from now on its job must be
to work with outdoor recreation interests to produce solutions, not
conflict.

Considering that the conservationists and assorted mountain lobby
groups have harried the skiing industry on Cairngorm for decades, with
nary a solution or a compromise in sight, this is sophistry. And
considering that it was the pressure from the conservation lobby that
caused the extra (pounds) 4.8m costs by delaying the building of the
funicular and forcing it to the Court of Session, Mr Morris would do
well not to be too pious.

Neither should he and his like forget that it was the conservation
lobby which forced a shambolic compromise upon the funicular - in that
anyone who uses the railway is imprisoned in a viewing area and cannot
walk about on top of the mountain, or descend on foot. Tourists, quite
justifiably, are irritated to learn that even if they walk up the
mountain, they cannot get a ride down from the top. They must be
herded inside like errant cattle in case they damage the flora and
fauna on top of the mountain, specifically protected by European
directives.

Yes, that same precious flora and fauna which you and I, as children,
trampled over in the sixties and seventies when we went up the old
chairlift in the summer and joined dozens of tourists exploring the
remote beauty of the Cairngorm top. Just think of the directives we
flouted, at those cool, bright, hazy heights, even as we learned a
lifelong love of mountains.

But that's the way conservationists, ramblers and mountaineers regard
ordinary people having their first mountain experience: with snobbery
and contempt. They resent them being there. The mountains are their
giant, exclusive play park, and they don't want the masses anywhere
near them. The flora-and-fauna argument is a fatuous excuse.

In a modern, democratic country of course, the compromises forced on
the funicular are ridiculous, but then the decades-long war waged
against the ski resort has always been ridiculous, and at the root of
it has always been blind elitism.

The skiing areas on Cairngorm amount to some 1500 acres, or less than
0.5% of the entire Cairngorm massif. Quite why the conservationists
could not let a tiny proportion of mountain be sacrificed for the
enjoyment of literally millions of skiers over the years has always
been an unanswered question for reasonable people. There is enough
space for everyone. It is unjust that a vastly popular sport has
always had to fight to survive, when the ramblers and mountaineers had
almost every other mountain in Scotland to enjoy and conserve.

There should be balance in everything. But the mountain brigade have
never accepted that, never acknowledged the need for development,
enterprise and tourism. When the Cairngorm national park was launched
last August at a ceremony at the top of the funicular railway, you
might have expected everyone who cared about the area to come
together. You would be wrong. The event was boycotted by lots of
woolly hats, who described the funicular as "the most contentious,
destructive and economically marginal example of industrial tourism in
Scotland"(that from the Mountaineering Council of Scotland) and "a
symbol of industrial mass tourism and environmental destruction".

It takes a particular arrogance to dismiss tourism, Scotland's most
important industry, so airily. But it tells you all you need to know
about the mountain elite. Funnily enough, the funicular has
regenerated the tourism economy and the local Aviemore economy, and
last summer exceeded its own expections with 179,000 visitors. It has
also been awarded a gold standard award for green tourism, which had
the critics spitting with rage.

Nobody claims for a moment that the ski industry is pretty or
aesthetic. Of course it leaves litter and scarred hillsides. In
France, at Val Thorens, they find 30,000 cigarette butts under a
single chairlift during a winter season, which is ghastly. But
imperfect as it is, the industry in Scotland has over the years
brought huge pleasure to huge numbers. That it now appears to be in
terminal decline, because of the loss of snow, is a cause of enormous
regret, farewell to lots of fun and to millions of pounds of winter
income.

The all-year-round appeal of the funicular will help stem the economic
losses. And maybe that's the reason the ramblers and their ilk hate it
so much. Sorry guys: skiing may be finished in Scotland in 10 or 20
years, but it doesn't mean you're going to get your mountains back.
Believe it or not, the lumpen proletariat has as much right to be
there as you do, even if they don't have crampons. You no longer own
the wilderness nor represent the nation's soul.




  #16  
Old February 24th 04, 05:10 PM
Ian Spare
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Default Smoking is something to share on the same seat

funkraum wrote:
"Simon Brown" wrote:

"Gav" wrote in message

I'm not a smoker but I have no problem with people lighting up on
chairlifts. It's outdoors so I don't get affected by the smoke and
the chairlift ride typically only lasts a few minutes anyway.


Lovely clean pure Alpine air spoilt by a selfish bugger with no regard for
others? Death's too good for them.



guffaws

You're damn right. I loathe the smell of the burning paper and the
saltpetre which coats it in order to keep the cigarette alight. It
should be "Cigars Only" on all lifts.

And there should be a "Cigar Fast Lane" in the lift queue, in order to
wave-through persons of taste and breeding while the proletarians
are kept bottled up in some pen.


That might work but we'd need some way of distinguishing between brands,
clearly Hamlet or Wintermanns Cafe Creme are the cigars of the masses
and should be discouraged, as much as anything they smell like someone's
burning old socks wrapped in rubber. The cigar fast lane should only be
genuine Cuban cigars purchased from a humidor not "product of several
countries" or some other South American country purchased from the local
petrol station ....

There's too much of the proletariat on the slopes, luckily here in the
Grand Massif they're eliminating themselves quite quickly and drumming
up a lot of business for the local helicopter guys, by the end of the
week I should be the only person on the slopes.
  #18  
Old February 25th 04, 01:09 PM
Hywel Jenkins
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Posts: n/a
Default Smoking is something to share on the same seat

"Simon Brown" wrote in message ...
"Gav" wrote in message
...

I'm not a smoker but I have no problem with people lighting up on
chairlifts. It's outdoors so I don't get affected by the smoke and
the chairlift ride typically only lasts a few minutes anyway.


Lovely clean pure Alpine air spoilt by a selfish bugger with no regard for
others? Death's too good for them.


Though I agree with you, Simon, I also see the smoker's side to the
story. The effect of one bloke with a rollie on a chairlift is
negligible - hardly likely to impact the OP at all. In fact, if I was
also on chair with a non-smoker and a smoker, and the non-smoker made
such a comment, I (a non-smoker) would be inclined to "borrow" a stick
and light up, too, just tomake the point. If the OP phrased his
sentence as he did above, he'd have been certain to get as much of my
secondhand smoke as possible. If, OTOH, he said, "Would you mind not
smoking until we're off the lift - different story.

That said, fresh mountain air smells odd to me, a town-dweller. Odd
in a nice kind of way, that is.

What irks me is that fact that smokers drop their dog-ends wherever
they go. During my drive to work I get flaming fag-ends flying
towards my car God knows how many times, usually thrown by
inconsiderate ****s in BMWs and Mercs. If they don't want the smell
of the smoke in their cars, WTF are they smoking in the forst place?
Their clothes already smell, so why not the car seats?

The environmental effect of the smoke is no doubt negligible when
compared to the crap that gets used to keep the Cresta Run cold, the
snow blowers running, and the pisteurs working all night, but I can't
see that damage as easily as I can see the mess left by smokers.

--
Hywel
  #19  
Old February 25th 04, 01:10 PM
Hywel Jenkins
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Posts: n/a
Default Smoking is something to share on the same seat

funkraum wrote in message . ..
"Simon Brown" wrote:
"Gav" wrote in message

I'm not a smoker but I have no problem with people lighting up on
chairlifts. It's outdoors so I don't get affected by the smoke and
the chairlift ride typically only lasts a few minutes anyway.


Lovely clean pure Alpine air spoilt by a selfish bugger with no regard for
others? Death's too good for them.


guffaws

You're damn right. I loathe the smell of the burning paper and the
saltpetre which coats it in order to keep the cigarette alight. It
should be "Cigars Only" on all lifts.

And there should be a "Cigar Fast Lane" in the lift queue, in order to
wave-through persons of taste and breeding while the proletarians
are kept bottled up in some pen.


You say that, but then you'd have to consider pipe smokers - they'd
have people driving them up the hill in Volvo V40s.

--
Hywel
 




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