Removing rear boot spoiler?

I posted a question in this NG about my new lange 130lf boots a while
back (asking whether I got the right shell size), and got some great
responses. Just as an update, I decided to keep them, had the toe box
ground out a bit, and they fit great now, snug and stiff but wonderful.

One thing my bootfitter mentioned when he was grinding out my boot for
me was that my stance seemed too far forward. As compared to my old
boots this is certainly true, I now find that in a static stance my
knees are positioned almost over the tips of my toes.

What he suggested I watch out for is that during mid-turn I might find
myself lose the ski as my weight shifts back to compensate for all the
forward lean in the boot, because with so much built in lean I wouldn't
be able to flex them forward enough. I don't know if it's a self
fulfilling prophecy but I do seem to notice this, unless I'm really
hammering down the hill and jamming the boots forward in the turn I
tent to lose the ski at the apex more than with my old boots.

The prescribed remedy? Grind off the 1/2 inch rear spoiler in the back
of the boot. Now this scared the hell out of me partially because it's
a permanent modification, and it seemed to me if thosee parts should be
removed they would have been removable? But he's a smart guy and I'm
inclined to trust him, so my question is, does this seem like a
reasonable solution? Are there going to be any ramifications as far as
boot fit if I do this? And can I do it myself with a dremel tool?
It's a bit of a hike to see the bootfitter and he made it seem like it
was just a matter of dremelling them off so I'm wondering if this is a
DIY mod or if it requires professional attention.

"honclfibr" wrote in message
oups.com...
I posted a question in this NG about my new lange 130lf boots a while
back (asking whether I got the right shell size), and got some great
responses. Just as an update, I decided to keep them, had the toe box
ground out a bit, and they fit great now, snug and stiff but wonderful.

One thing my bootfitter mentioned when he was grinding out my boot for
me was that my stance seemed too far forward. As compared to my old
boots this is certainly true, I now find that in a static stance my
knees are positioned almost over the tips of my toes.

What he suggested I watch out for is that during mid-turn I might find
myself lose the ski as my weight shifts back to compensate for all the
forward lean in the boot, because with so much built in lean I wouldn't
be able to flex them forward enough. I don't know if it's a self
fulfilling prophecy but I do seem to notice this, unless I'm really
hammering down the hill and jamming the boots forward in the turn I
tent to lose the ski at the apex more than with my old boots.

The prescribed remedy? Grind off the 1/2 inch rear spoiler in the back
of the boot. Now this scared the hell out of me partially because it's
a permanent modification, and it seemed to me if thosee parts should be
removed they would have been removable? But he's a smart guy and I'm
inclined to trust him, so my question is, does this seem like a
reasonable solution? Are there going to be any ramifications as far as
boot fit if I do this? And can I do it myself with a dremel tool?
It's a bit of a hike to see the bootfitter and he made it seem like it
was just a matter of dremelling them off so I'm wondering if this is a
DIY mod or if it requires professional attention.


Try to get used to them before you do anything that drastic. Work on
staying forward throughout the turn, knees bent, hips & hands forward and
shoulders facing down hill.

JQ
Dancing on the edge

"honclfibr" wrote in message
oups.com...
I posted a question in this NG about my new lange 130lf boots a while
back (asking whether I got the right shell size), and got some great
responses. Just as an update, I decided to keep them, had the toe box
ground out a bit, and they fit great now, snug and stiff but wonderful.

One thing my bootfitter mentioned when he was grinding out my boot for
me was that my stance seemed too far forward. As compared to my old
boots this is certainly true, I now find that in a static stance my
knees are positioned almost over the tips of my toes.

What he suggested I watch out for is that during mid-turn I might find
myself lose the ski as my weight shifts back to compensate for all the
forward lean in the boot, because with so much built in lean I wouldn't
be able to flex them forward enough. I don't know if it's a self
fulfilling prophecy but I do seem to notice this, unless I'm really
hammering down the hill and jamming the boots forward in the turn I
tent to lose the ski at the apex more than with my old boots.

The prescribed remedy? Grind off the 1/2 inch rear spoiler in the back
of the boot. Now this scared the hell out of me partially because it's
a permanent modification, and it seemed to me if thosee parts should be
removed they would have been removable? But he's a smart guy and I'm
inclined to trust him, so my question is, does this seem like a
reasonable solution? Are there going to be any ramifications as far as
boot fit if I do this? And can I do it myself with a dremel tool?
It's a bit of a hike to see the bootfitter and he made it seem like it
was just a matter of dremelling them off so I'm wondering if this is a
DIY mod or if it requires professional attention.

I agree, try to get used to them first. I did have a pair of Solomon
SX91E's long ago that did have a removable spoiler so the idea is something
some boot manugfacturers have thought about. I did end up taking them out
because I have large calves and found them to be more comfortable with them
out.

snoig

honclfibr wrote:

[snip]
The prescribed remedy? Grind off the 1/2 inch rear spoiler in the back
of the boot. Now this scared the hell out of me partially because it's
a permanent modification, and it seemed to me if thosee parts should be
removed they would have been removable?

They may be. Take a look and see if the sole pieces are held on with
screws. If they are, you probably can't just remove the heel; you need
to remove and replace both heel and front part.

--
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield, other days you're the bug.

Oops sorry I should have explained better, the spoiler part I'm talking
about is a bit of plastic on the upper rear of the liner that squeezes
a bit more forward lean out of the boot.

The 130lf does come with removeable toe and heel pieces, and I've got
the larger piece installed in the toe to counteract a bit of the
forward lean, but I'm still way forward on these boots.

Appreciate the advice so far, I will ski the boots some more before
going to town with the dremel. The boots weren't cheap, nor the
grinding, I don't want to do anything to the boots that can't be undone
until I'm sure I will be happy with it.

Quick corollary, what is the current thinking on forward lean? I was
raised under the school of thought that you couldn't ever have too much
forward lean if you've got the leg muscles to handle it (sort of like
bar rise on a sportbike), but my bootfitter took a different view.
Told me that it was necessary to adapt a more neutral static stance
where one's CG is balanced on the ski so that the weight can be
transferred forward from static to initiate and maintain the turn. I
must admit, the idea has merit. Smart folks, those boot gurus. Not
just for feet anymore.

Mary Malmros wrote:
honclfibr wrote:

[snip]
The prescribed remedy? Grind off the 1/2 inch rear spoiler in the
back
of the boot. Now this scared the hell out of me partially because
it's
a permanent modification, and it seemed to me if thosee parts
should be
removed they would have been removable?

They may be. Take a look and see if the sole pieces are held on with

screws. If they are, you probably can't just remove the heel; you
need
to remove and replace both heel and front part.

--
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield, other days you're the bug.

"honclfibr" wrote in message
ups.com...
Oops sorry I should have explained better, the spoiler part I'm talking
about is a bit of plastic on the upper rear of the liner that squeezes
a bit more forward lean out of the boot.

The 130lf does come with removeable toe and heel pieces, and I've got
the larger piece installed in the toe to counteract a bit of the
forward lean, but I'm still way forward on these boots.


My understanding if you raise the front of the boot you will push back your
center of gravity, making it easier for ou to get thrown into the back seat.
It will also make it harder for you to push forward, it will be like going
uphill.

JQ
Dancing on the edge

(snip)

Hi

I have the exact same problem with new boots I bought.
I did not find the greater forward lean a problem while
going fast on the groomed slopes but off piste I am yet
too see whether I will get used to the greater forward
lean. My boots are Technica Icon Alu Hotform which
have an adjustable rear spoiler which I will adjust to
hopefully reduce the forward lean. I will have to wait
untill June though being in NZ.
"honclfibr" wrote in message
oups.com...
I posted a question in this NG about my new lange 130lf boots a while
back (asking whether I got the right shell size), and got some great
responses. Just as an update, I decided to keep them, had the toe box
ground out a bit, and they fit great now, snug and stiff but wonderful.

One thing my bootfitter mentioned when he was grinding out my boot for
me was that my stance seemed too far forward. As compared to my old
boots this is certainly true, I now find that in a static stance my
knees are positioned almost over the tips of my toes.

What he suggested I watch out for is that during mid-turn I might find
myself lose the ski as my weight shifts back to compensate for all the
forward lean in the boot, because with so much built in lean I wouldn't
be able to flex them forward enough. I don't know if it's a self
fulfilling prophecy but I do seem to notice this, unless I'm really
hammering down the hill and jamming the boots forward in the turn I
tent to lose the ski at the apex more than with my old boots.

The prescribed remedy? Grind off the 1/2 inch rear spoiler in the back
of the boot. Now this scared the hell out of me partially because it's
a permanent modification, and it seemed to me if thosee parts should be
removed they would have been removable? But he's a smart guy and I'm
inclined to trust him, so my question is, does this seem like a
reasonable solution? Are there going to be any ramifications as far as
boot fit if I do this? And can I do it myself with a dremel tool?
It's a bit of a hike to see the bootfitter and he made it seem like it
was just a matter of dremelling them off so I'm wondering if this is a
DIY mod or if it requires professional attention.

honclfibr wrote:

Oops sorry I should have explained better, the spoiler part I'm talking
about is a bit of plastic on the upper rear of the liner that squeezes
a bit more forward lean out of the boot.

The 130lf does come with removeable toe and heel pieces, and I've got
the larger piece installed in the toe to counteract a bit of the
forward lean, but I'm still way forward on these boots.

Hrm. I understand your problem, although in my experience, the toe/heel
piece sets are meant to be used as sets, not the big heel with the small
toe or vice versa -- if you mix 'em up, the sole overall may not be flat
any more.

Appreciate the advice so far, I will ski the boots some more before
going to town with the dremel. The boots weren't cheap, nor the
grinding, I don't want to do anything to the boots that can't be undone
until I'm sure I will be happy with it.

Good plan.

Quick corollary, what is the current thinking on forward lean? I was
raised under the school of thought that you couldn't ever have too much
forward lean if you've got the leg muscles to handle it (sort of like
bar rise on a sportbike), but my bootfitter took a different view.
Told me that it was necessary to adapt a more neutral static stance
where one's CG is balanced on the ski so that the weight can be
transferred forward from static to initiate and maintain the turn. I
must admit, the idea has merit. Smart folks, those boot gurus. Not
just for feet anymore.

The training I've been doing lately has been micro-focused on the idea
that the CG moves during the turn. If it's going to start moving
forward at turn initiation, it stands to reason that it has to start
from, not _back_, but somewhere back of all-the-way-forward. If your
boots are such that you can't get your CG back as far as your arch or
the front of your heel, you're basically wearing stiletto heels, and
yeah, they're not very functional.


Mary Malmros wrote:

honclfibr wrote:

[snip]

The prescribed remedy? Grind off the 1/2 inch rear spoiler in the

back

of the boot. Now this scared the hell out of me partially because

it's

a permanent modification, and it seemed to me if thosee parts

should be

removed they would have been removable?

They may be. Take a look and see if the sole pieces are held on with


screws. If they are, you probably can't just remove the heel; you

need

to remove and replace both heel and front part.

--
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield, other days you're the bug.




--
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield, other days you're the bug.

JQ wrote:
"honclfibr" wrote in message
ups.com...

Oops sorry I should have explained better, the spoiler part I'm talking
about is a bit of plastic on the upper rear of the liner that squeezes
a bit more forward lean out of the boot.

The 130lf does come with removeable toe and heel pieces, and I've got
the larger piece installed in the toe to counteract a bit of the
forward lean, but I'm still way forward on these boots.



My understanding if you raise the front of the boot you will push back your
center of gravity, making it easier for ou to get thrown into the back seat.
It will also make it harder for you to push forward, it will be like going
uphill.

JQ
Dancing on the edge

(snip)


Actually someone who knows what they are doing, like
Greg Hoffman at Vermont Orthopedic Clinic at Stratton,
just might shim someones foot up in the front to correct
something he sees in the person's skiing.

He did the fitting for a friend of mine who is an instructor
at Okemo and, among other things, corrected his stance by
shimming him up almost an inch at the heel. This made
the instructor's back feel so much better that he now
shims up his street shoes and inch at the heel and no
longer suffers chronic back pain.

You can experiment on yourself and maybe you will hit on
a solution that works, but going to someone who actually
can see what you need both from experience and from
measurement is always recommended.

Now I don't believe that cutting down the top of the back
of a ski boot will do a damn thing for too much forward lean.
You aren't cutting it down to the hinge are you?

Does the boot have a built-in adjustment for forward lean?
some do.

What might work:
1) Is the cuff riveted so that the plastic bending is your
only source of flex and no hinging? only bends for flex?
The difference between a Salomon Crossmax 10 boot and
a Salomon Xwave 10 is that the Crossmax has a riveted cuff
and costs about $30 more.

If so, remove the rivets. If you don't like it, you can
replace the rivets.

2) If the boot is flexing freely in the cuff but the
rear most hinging of the cuff is not BACK far enough,
removing some material from the BOTTOM of the cuff will
allow the cuff to achieve a more upright stance. This is
a permanent fix, so do it a little at a time so that
you don't over do.

3) No. 1 above you can probably do yourself. No. 2, let
someone who knows what they are doing do it.

VtSkier

VtSkier wrote:

Actually someone who knows what they are doing, like
Greg Hoffman at Vermont Orthopedic Clinic at Stratton,
just might shim someones foot up in the front to correct
something he sees in the person's skiing.

He did the fitting for a friend of mine who is an instructor
at Okemo and, among other things, corrected his stance by
shimming him up almost an inch at the heel. This made
the instructor's back feel so much better that he now
shims up his street shoes and inch at the heel and no
longer suffers chronic back pain.


Sounds like what he really needs are custom orthotics.