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#21
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On 2004-01-14, Richard Walsh penned:
[snip] Took them home. A month and a half later was my first day on the hill. I buckled them moderately, skied all day without changing anything and took them off at night. It's been this way right along now. This isn't by way of bragging, it's for encouragement. You will get your boots right and the next time you buy boots it will be easier. Work hard on getting them at least close so you won't mess up your honeymoon trip with sore feet after the first day. I hope you're right =) Fortunately, my version of sore feet goes away an hour or so after I get my feet out of the boots, so while it may be annoying, it shouldn't mess up the non-skiing portion of the events. BTW, my recommendation for buckling, assuming the boots fit snuggly. Bottom two buckles just tight enough to not jar open. Third buckle up tight enough that I can close it but not so tight as I need help closing it. Same for the top buckle, but can be looser if the terrain is easy. Fairly snug for the strap. Sounds about right. I can close all of my buckles myself, with much less effort than I used to expend. However, the bootfitters seem to have achieved this by remounting the calf buckles, so maybe I'm cheating =P ALWAYS wear the same brand/size/weight of socks once you have found the right ones. Indeed. The lighter, the better. -- monique |
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#22
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On 2004-01-14, F. Plant penned:
Congrats on the 8 days and the intended honeymoon. Ive got 2 days and a todler, used to get about a dozen. Funny what kids will do to your schedule =) Your boot is still probably only partially broken in, and your foot will also be getting manipulated into a slightly different shape so it takes a bit of time for it to get used to being constrained. I'm trying to interpret this paragraph. How many days of skiing does it take to break in a boot liner? Does it matter how far apart the days are? Also, my foot? Do you mean that, every season, my foot needs to reshape itself to the boot? RE the MTB, a friend had a similar issue which she cured by putting some old ski orthodics in her cycling shoes. They were the rigid plastic type w no arch posting. I'm not sure exactly what posting is. I have custom orthotics in my ski boots; I have certainly thought about putting them in my biking shoes, but as I said, my bike foot issues are pretty minor compared to the ski ones. Boot dryers that are too warm can soften the liner materials and let them somewhat bounce back to their original uncompacted form. Moisture only gives you musties AFAIK. Mine adds no heat to the air; it only circulates the existing air. I can relate to your toe issue as I get foot cramps on a reg basis -I can do great involuntary Vulcan greetings with my toes :-) Don't rule out cold 'cause if the circulation to that toe is bad it could be freezing before its friends do. Dosn't mean that its not the boots fault, just that it could be a blood vessel issue and not a pinched nerve issue. If its white and its neighbours are pink (assuming your are of pasty european descent -which is a great bootfitting aid) you have minimally some sort of circulation issues. Well, at this point, my feet generally feel pretty warm, both to themselves and to the touch. So I have trouble believing that it's a cold issue. It also happens even on warm ski days. If I remember correctly, there's no visible difference between the toes after the boot torture. I have cramping issues that are boot volume related. For me I find chair lifts sometimes hell as that is when I get cramps. For myself at least, its the lack of weighting on my foot, which causes the problem. My theory is when weighted its in a stable spread position, easily overcoming boot forces. When unweighted the now relatively large boot forces distort it resulting in potential for cramps. I find this is worsened by cold, lactic acid, and dehydration. The lack of a foot bar definitely accelerates the pain process for me. I don't know know if the specifics are similar. I do try to drink enough water. I do have a low volume fit, and I am very close to the sides and top of the shell. All that said I've been looking for replacements for about 2-3 seasons and nothing comes close to their fit even though they must be close to 300 days. It seems so hard to tell whether a boot that you're trying on in the store will fit you well after a week of skiing. Or which boots will be modifiable to fit properly. And of course, once they start molding plastic, it's kind of hard to change your mind. Definitely daunting. BTW if you go to a podiatrist, try to get someone who specializes in skiing. That was my plan. I'll see what I can dig up. I would think it would be pretty easy to find such an office in Boulder, of all places. -- monique |
#23
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Response in text
"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ... On 2004-01-14, F. Plant penned: snip Your boot is still probably only partially broken in, and your foot will also be getting manipulated into a slightly different shape so it takes a bit of time for it to get used to being constrained. I'm trying to interpret this paragraph. How many days of skiing does it take to break in a boot liner? Does it matter how far apart the days are? Personally with the older non heat fit boots, I would say 15 to 30 days. If its done over a few years you are always back tracking a bit as materials do have a memory and they want to go back some what. Your feet also change over the years. A lot of 2 day a year skiers replace boots before they are broken in. Even with new boots it takes a while. I was looking at a performance salomon boot and the rep said to ski it a week before heat forming it. Also, my foot? Do you mean that, every season, my foot needs to reshape itself to the boot? A little. During the summer our footwear tends to be loose and our feet spread. Your feet are also bigger at the end of the day than in the morning, or when we are very hot. In your ski boots your feet tend to be constrained, and realistically for a responsive fit it does exert some preasure on the foot, just as your foot exerts preasure on the boot, and that preasure manipulates the foot. Sort of a ying yang thing. Sometimes everything readjusts into a happy position, sometimes not. At the end of the season you will probably be close to 50 days at the rate you are going, and you will probably notice a sculpted shape to your shin and calf, and a packing together of the toes where they nestle like hotdogs in a blister pack. RE the MTB, a friend had a similar issue which she cured by putting some old ski orthodics in her cycling shoes. They were the rigid plastic type w no arch posting. I'm not sure exactly what posting is. I have custom orthotics in my ski Posting is solid blocking under the arch. Cork beds are made that way, plastic beds optionally have it added after the fact. boots; I have certainly thought about putting them in my biking shoes, but as I said, my bike foot issues are pretty minor compared to the ski ones. Boot dryers that are too warm can soften the liner materials and let them somewhat bounce back to their original uncompacted form. Moisture only gives you musties AFAIK. Mine adds no heat to the air; it only circulates the existing air. Perfect. You may just want to check that they are also getting rid of moisture between the liner and shell. On some boots the only recourse is to pull the liners each day. I can relate to your toe issue as I get foot cramps on a reg basis -I can do great involuntary Vulcan greetings with my toes :-) Don't rule out cold 'cause if the circulation to that toe is bad it could be freezing before its friends do. Dosn't mean that its not the boots fault, just that it could be a blood vessel issue and not a pinched nerve issue. If its white and its neighbours are pink (assuming your are of pasty european descent -which is a great bootfitting aid) you have minimally some sort of circulation issues. Well, at this point, my feet generally feel pretty warm, both to themselves and to the touch. So I have trouble believing that it's a cold issue. It also happens even on warm ski days. If I remember correctly, there's no visible difference between the toes after the boot torture. I have cramping issues that are boot volume related. For me I find chair lifts sometimes hell as that is when I get cramps. For myself at least, its the lack of weighting on my foot, which causes the problem. My theory is when weighted its in a stable spread position, easily overcoming boot forces. When unweighted the now relatively large boot forces distort it resulting in potential for cramps. I find this is worsened by cold, lactic acid, and dehydration. The lack of a foot bar definitely accelerates the pain process for me. I don't know know if the specifics are similar. I do try to drink enough water. I do have a low volume fit, and I am very close to the sides and top of the shell. All that said I've been looking for replacements for about 2-3 seasons and nothing comes close to their fit even though they must be close to 300 days. It seems so hard to tell whether a boot that you're trying on in the store will fit you well after a week of skiing. Or which boots will be modifiable to fit properly. And of course, once they start molding plastic, it's kind of hard to change your mind. Definitely daunting. Shell fit without the liner is very important. A shop should do this for length, but few do it for volume. With the liner out put your foot inside but instead of touching the end try to put it where it would be if the liner was there. Check the width by rocking your foot. How close are you to the shell? If you are extreamly close or touching on both sides without the liner, chances are it needs to be wider. Also how does it feel at the sides where the shell makes transition to the sides. Sometimes they roll up to much, effectively making your foot colapse inward. Now try it again but with your footbeds and do the same drill. Also how do the edges of the footbed relate to your foot. If they are trimed to the width of the original, you can find yourself hanging off the outside edges especially if they do a big shell blowout. Check the height over the toes and instep while you are at it. BTW if you go to a podiatrist, try to get someone who specializes in skiing. That was my plan. I'll see what I can dig up. I would think it would be pretty easy to find such an office in Boulder, of all places. -- monique Hope this helps to clarify, F.Plant |
#24
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"F. Plant" wrote in message ... Response in text "Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ... On 2004-01-14, F. Plant penned: snip Your boot is still probably only partially broken in, and your foot will also be getting manipulated into a slightly different shape so it takes a bit of time for it to get used to being constrained. I'm trying to interpret this paragraph. How many days of skiing does it take to break in a boot liner? Does it matter how far apart the days are? Personally with the older non heat fit boots, I would say 15 to 30 days. If its done over a few years you are always back tracking a bit as materials do have a memory and they want to go back some what. Your feet also change over the years. A lot of 2 day a year skiers replace boots before they are broken in. Even with new boots it takes a while. I was looking at a performance salomon boot and the rep said to ski it a week before heat forming it. snip Just to clarify, just because the boot is being broken in dosn't mean you hold off if things are hurting or causing major irritation, as that can do major damage to your feet. Get the major adjustments done, but for minor tweaking give them time to pack down on their own before taking more drastic measures. Some shops will do major overkill in "solving" the small fit problem, giving you a sloppier fit than what you really need. F. Plant |
#25
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On 2004-01-14, F. Plant penned:
[various sections snipped] "Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ... I'm trying to interpret this paragraph. How many days of skiing does it take to break in a boot liner? Does it matter how far apart the days are? Personally with the older non heat fit boots, I would say 15 to 30 days. If its done over a few years you are always back tracking a bit as materials do have a memory and they want to go back some what. Your feet also change over the years. A lot of 2 day a year skiers replace boots before they are broken in. Even with new boots it takes a while. I was looking at a performance salomon boot and the rep said to ski it a week before heat forming it. Wow, 15 to 30 days. So yeah, I'm probably still breaking them in. Also, my foot? Do you mean that, every season, my foot needs to reshape itself to the boot? A little. During the summer our footwear tends to be loose and our feet spread. Your feet are also bigger at the end of the day than in the morning, or when we are very hot. In your ski boots your feet tend to be constrained, and realistically for a responsive fit it does exert some preasure on the foot, just as your foot exerts preasure on the boot, and that preasure manipulates the foot. Sort of a ying yang thing. Sometimes everything readjusts into a happy position, sometimes not. At the end of the season you will probably be close to 50 days at the rate you are going, and you will probably notice a sculpted shape to your shin and calf, and a packing together of the toes where they nestle like hotdogs in a blister pack. I would be very surprised (but psyched!) if we managed 50 days. Twenty would thrill me. But we'll see =) Kind of depressing to think that I'll have to get my feet "back into shape" every season. Ah well. Shell fit without the liner is very important. A shop should do this for length, but few do it for volume. With the liner out put your foot inside but instead of touching the end try to put it where it would be if the liner was there. Check the width by rocking your foot. How close are you to the shell? If you are extreamly close or touching on both sides without the liner, chances are it needs to be wider. Also how does it feel at the sides where the shell makes transition to the sides. Sometimes they roll up to much, effectively making your foot colapse inward. Now try it again but with your footbeds and do the same drill. Also how do the edges of the footbed relate to your foot. If they are trimed to the width of the original, you can find yourself hanging off the outside edges especially if they do a big shell blowout. Check the height over the toes and instep while you are at it. I need to save this bit of wisdom. To the best of my (faulty) memory, I've generally been checked for heel and toe fit in the shell, but not other contact points. Hope this helps to clarify, It does! Thank you! -- monique |
#26
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ... (snip) * "painfully numb" means that the toe aches, but the toe itself can't feel its surroundings; the big and middle toe feel its cold skin, but it doesn't reciprocate. When I remove the boot, I get a prolonged ache that makes me want to scream, presumably due to blood flowing back into the region. So *something* is causing this pressure. I've taken to leaving the lowest buckle undone (doesn't seem to change my degree of control) and have the second buckle on its loosest setting. The upper two buckles are as loose as I can set them while still feeling like I'm in the driver's seat. This isn't due to cold; it's been pretty warm on our ski days. It's also not isolated to skiing; I've noticed a similar numbing effect while mountain biking. So I'm guessing the problem is actually the constant pressure from the soles. Except that riding lifts with no foot-bars seems to hasten the process, so that would implicate pressure from the top. *sigh* Is your boot folding your foot? You might need to lower your foot to a wider part of the boot by grinding the footbed. Or expand the shell right there. But I learned that from SureFoot (RightFit actually) so they'll be on that for you. My old boots didn't have the Ooomph for the more aggressive me. They're fine now. Very comfy. Anybody in need of a pair of 9/12 Rossi Course - CHEAP! pigo |
#27
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On 2004-01-15, pigo penned:
Is your boot folding your foot? You might need to lower your foot to a wider part of the boot by grinding the footbed. Or expand the shell right there. But I learned that from SureFoot (RightFit actually) so they'll be on that for you. I'm not sure how a foot could possibly be folded ... but that doesn't sound like what's happening to me, or I'm sure I would immediately recognize what you're describing. -- monique |
#28
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote:
On 2004-01-15, pigo penned: Is your boot folding your foot? You might need to lower your foot to a wider part of the boot by grinding the footbed. Or expand the shell right there. But I learned that from SureFoot (RightFit actually) so they'll be on that for you. I keep wearing my rear-entry boots because their previous owner's feet seemed to match my own perfectly -- (s)he had them blown out exactly where I would have had it done. I'm not sure how a foot could possibly be folded ... That sounds like what most shoes do to my feet -- the slightest tightness across the widest part of my foot causes extreme pain which lasts for at least 15 minutes after taking off my shoes and walking around barefoot. A certain kind of insole has a big lump in the middle of the ball of the foot, causing the bones to spread out rather than bunching up. I wore some for a few hours as a favor to the seller, but if she'd wanted to give them to me I wouldn't have taken them, and I certainly wouldn't have paid money for them. -- Cheers, Bev ...so few snipers, so many politicians... |
#29
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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message ... snip Wow, 15 to 30 days. So yeah, I'm probably still breaking them in. Its not as long as it sounds, as the discomfort factor should be a logarithmic thing with it tapering off. But it does take a while to get a ballet slipper fit especially if you first need a few trips to the shop to get you into the homestretch. snip Kind of depressing to think that I'll have to get my feet "back into shape" every season. Ah well. Good reason to not gain a lot of weight in the off season Again its not as bad as it sounds, but expect the first couple of days a year to potentially retrigger problems you thought had been worked out as foot and boot become integrated again (esp if you have problematic feet). Just know if it happens next year, there is probably no reason to get depressed as it should sort itself out in short order. Just ski and have fun. snip F.Plant |
#30
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The boot process is: first find the brand line that fits your foot best; second find the model in that line that fits your skill level; third tweek the final selection to perfection. All the above is much easier with the aid of a good bootfitter (I'm tempted to say impossible for the newbie, without the aid of a good bootfitter.) I know that this is the standard advice, and I don't intend to disagree with it. (I have a quibble below.) My problem is that it never works for me because the fit of new boots and the fit of boots used 10 and 20 times is so different. I simply don't buy enough boots (and will never buy enough boots) to know just how tight boots should feel in the store. Bootfitters, even experienced ones, aren't very helpful on this point. They naturally need to ask things like: "Does it feel tight enough?" or "Is it snug around the ankle?" I have to answer - assuming the boot is in the ball park, "I guess so." I can also say things like "It's tighter than the last one" but I can't really tell if the boot is tight enough that once it packs out, it will fit. My actual procedure, for the last two pairs of boots, has been 1) follow the advice above; 2) ski in the boots; 3) every ten ski days take them back to the store and get the fit redone; 4) after twenty days, start rearranging the pads myself. I can't figure out how to do it differently. Here's my quibble with lal's advice: nearly everyone who sells boots thinks they are good bootfitters. Most shop employees in most shops are new. They have taken a training program - maybe - and done fittings for a couple months. Those who have been around for awhile seem either jaded or they own the place. They can usually ski in anything and have used dozens of boots. Naturally, they are a bit impatient with people like me who can't tell if the boots are too tight and are very concerned about getting things just right before shelling out a bundle of money. They also know that the truth is that the boots will fit very differently in a month. (I suppose this also varies by manufacturer and year. I should add that I have "good feet." They are perhaps a bit unusual in shape, but I never find myself in pain because of footwear or ski boots. |
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