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START kick scotch tape???



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 1st 03, 02:46 PM
revyakin
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Default START kick scotch tape???

I spoke to a service man of the Russian National Team during my visit
to Moscow a week ago. He just came back from a START waxing clinique
in Finland. He told me that START came up with a new "grip tape"
that will make kick wax and klisters obsolete. He says the tape works
between
-20 and +5 and stays for at least ~250 km. Applying the tape is like
applying scotch tape. Sounds unbelievable. If it's true I may start
classic skiing again. Does anyone know anything abut this?

Andrey Revyakin.
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  #2  
Old December 1st 03, 08:51 PM
Bruce Sutton
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Default START kick scotch tape???

Trax Magazine mentioned the product in their latest edition
"revyakin" wrote in message
m...
I spoke to a service man of the Russian National Team during my visit
to Moscow a week ago. He just came back from a START waxing clinique
in Finland. He told me that START came up with a new "grip tape"
that will make kick wax and klisters obsolete. He says the tape works
between
-20 and +5 and stays for at least ~250 km. Applying the tape is like
applying scotch tape. Sounds unbelievable. If it's true I may start
classic skiing again. Does anyone know anything abut this?

Andrey Revyakin.



  #3  
Old December 1st 03, 08:52 PM
Bruce Sutton
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Default START kick scotch tape???

Forgot to mention...they said it works!
"revyakin" wrote in message
m...
I spoke to a service man of the Russian National Team during my visit
to Moscow a week ago. He just came back from a START waxing clinique
in Finland. He told me that START came up with a new "grip tape"
that will make kick wax and klisters obsolete. He says the tape works
between
-20 and +5 and stays for at least ~250 km. Applying the tape is like
applying scotch tape. Sounds unbelievable. If it's true I may start
classic skiing again. Does anyone know anything abut this?

Andrey Revyakin.



  #5  
Old December 2nd 03, 12:00 AM
Jay Tegeder
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Default START kick scotch tape???

I suggested the same idea to Dan Meyer of FastWax last year. He's a
chemist at 3M. I'm not the most technical or scientific guy around so
I'm sure others thought of the idea long ago. My questions would be:

1) What took so long?

2) Is this something that would have been stifled by the wax companies
since it would put them out of business or change the nature of kick
waxing?

Jay Tegeder
"Keep training, lycra never lies!" JT

(revyakin) wrote in message om...
I spoke to a service man of the Russian National Team during my visit
to Moscow a week ago. He just came back from a START waxing clinique
in Finland. He told me that START came up with a new "grip tape"
that will make kick wax and klisters obsolete. He says the tape works
between
-20 and +5 and stays for at least ~250 km. Applying the tape is like
applying scotch tape. Sounds unbelievable. If it's true I may start
classic skiing again. Does anyone know anything abut this?

Andrey Revyakin.

  #6  
Old December 2nd 03, 12:57 AM
Rob Bradlee
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Default START kick scotch tape???


2) Is this something that would have been stifled by the wax
companies
since it would put them out of business or change the nature of kick
waxing?


That's why the Toko Tech Team exists - to hunt down and eliminate brave
inventors who threaten our hold on the worldwide economy. Actually, if
it's a good idea then the wax companies will probably develop their own
"wax tape". That's what Start did, no? The wax companies are in the
business of selling products to help your skiing. Whatever technology
comes along they will follow.

I can see some serious problems with it though - how do you get it
sticky enough to stick to a cold ski, but still be able to get it off?
and would its surface have the right combo of kick and glide? How
would you vary the thickness?

Perhaps other wax companies have tried the tape concept and not been
able to make it work. Look at liquid waxes. Cerax sounded great, but
it turned out to have too strong a solvent in it and clogged the base
necessitating stone-grinding after a few applications. It's very
tricky to make a good liquid wax. (I think Toko has succeeded with
Helx, but that's another story).

Rob Bradlee
Toko Tech Team





  #7  
Old December 2nd 03, 01:04 AM
Jeff Potter
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Default START kick scotch tape???

I could see the handiness of tape but how do they make it work in all the temp ranges? It seems like we're
talking about two features he

1. easy on/off wax via the tape --- but this is no biggie to me as kickwax doesn't seem that hard to
apply or change
2. crazy huge temp range: -20C to 5C, right? ---THIS seems like the HUGE deal-maker

Uh, if I had a REGULAR kick wax that was recommended by the Russian Natl Team to work from -20C to 5C that
would be a nice tip.

What's really going on here anyway?

Offhand it seems like a handy thing that probably works OK but which no one would use for racing. But the
Roosky recommended it? And Big Jay T thinks it was inevitable? (Which? The tape or the HUGE range good
wax?)

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself culture...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies...
...rare books on ski, bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller
about smalltown smuggling ... more radical novels coming up!
...original downloadable music ... and articles galore!
plus national "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!


  #8  
Old December 2nd 03, 01:44 AM
Gary Jacobson
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Posts: n/a
Default START kick scotch tape???

Wasn't this done in an WC race, maybe in 1983, when some skier classic
skied the tough first half of the course, and then tore off tape overwhich
hard wax was applied, and then he skated to victory?
Nordic urban legend?

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY where finally there is snow covering the ground.

"Rob Bradlee" wrote in message
o.com...

2) Is this something that would have been stifled by the wax
companies
since it would put them out of business or change the nature of kick
waxing?


That's why the Toko Tech Team exists - to hunt down and eliminate brave
inventors who threaten our hold on the worldwide economy. Actually, if
it's a good idea then the wax companies will probably develop their own
"wax tape". That's what Start did, no? The wax companies are in the
business of selling products to help your skiing. Whatever technology
comes along they will follow.

I can see some serious problems with it though - how do you get it
sticky enough to stick to a cold ski, but still be able to get it off?
and would its surface have the right combo of kick and glide? How
would you vary the thickness?

Perhaps other wax companies have tried the tape concept and not been
able to make it work. Look at liquid waxes. Cerax sounded great, but
it turned out to have too strong a solvent in it and clogged the base
necessitating stone-grinding after a few applications. It's very
tricky to make a good liquid wax. (I think Toko has succeeded with
Helx, but that's another story).

Rob Bradlee
Toko Tech Team







  #9  
Old December 2nd 03, 01:49 AM
Gary Jacobson
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Posts: n/a
Default START kick scotch tape???

I wonder if a deep distinct wax pocket like found on the new Fischers would
best accommodate this wax tape.

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY



"Rob Bradlee" wrote in message
o.com...

2) Is this something that would have been stifled by the wax
companies
since it would put them out of business or change the nature of kick
waxing?


That's why the Toko Tech Team exists - to hunt down and eliminate brave
inventors who threaten our hold on the worldwide economy. Actually, if
it's a good idea then the wax companies will probably develop their own
"wax tape". That's what Start did, no? The wax companies are in the
business of selling products to help your skiing. Whatever technology
comes along they will follow.

I can see some serious problems with it though - how do you get it
sticky enough to stick to a cold ski, but still be able to get it off?
and would its surface have the right combo of kick and glide? How
would you vary the thickness?

Perhaps other wax companies have tried the tape concept and not been
able to make it work. Look at liquid waxes. Cerax sounded great, but
it turned out to have too strong a solvent in it and clogged the base
necessitating stone-grinding after a few applications. It's very
tricky to make a good liquid wax. (I think Toko has succeeded with
Helx, but that's another story).

Rob Bradlee
Toko Tech Team







  #10  
Old December 2nd 03, 03:35 AM
shreddir
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Posts: n/a
Default START kick scotch tape???

My memory is fuzzy, but I think I heard something about Thomas Wassberg do
this back when we all thought the "marathon skate technique- one ski still
in the track" was totally dope. It was a klister over duct tape job.
However, I believe it was in a race after the '84 Sarejevo Olympics. All
the traditional technique racers were complaining about the skaters ruining
the tracks.

"Gary Jacobson" wrote in message
.. .
Wasn't this done in an WC race, maybe in 1983, when some skier classic
skied the tough first half of the course, and then tore off tape overwhich
hard wax was applied, and then he skated to victory?
Nordic urban legend?

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY where finally there is snow covering the ground.

"Rob Bradlee" wrote in message
o.com...

2) Is this something that would have been stifled by the wax
companies
since it would put them out of business or change the nature of kick
waxing?


That's why the Toko Tech Team exists - to hunt down and eliminate brave
inventors who threaten our hold on the worldwide economy. Actually, if
it's a good idea then the wax companies will probably develop their own
"wax tape". That's what Start did, no? The wax companies are in the
business of selling products to help your skiing. Whatever technology
comes along they will follow.

I can see some serious problems with it though - how do you get it
sticky enough to stick to a cold ski, but still be able to get it off?
and would its surface have the right combo of kick and glide? How
would you vary the thickness?

Perhaps other wax companies have tried the tape concept and not been
able to make it work. Look at liquid waxes. Cerax sounded great, but
it turned out to have too strong a solvent in it and clogged the base
necessitating stone-grinding after a few applications. It's very
tricky to make a good liquid wax. (I think Toko has succeeded with
Helx, but that's another story).

Rob Bradlee
Toko Tech Team









 




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