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Roll your own rollerskis



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 29th 13, 05:18 PM posted to uk.d-i-y,rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
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Posts: 572
Default Roll your own rollerskis

Nick, you're very brave to give this a try again given longstanding
balance issues (at 66, I've found my balance is much better than when
younger, in good part due to the demands of x-c skiing and
rollerskiing).

If you pursue this, then I think it's a choice of picking your poison:
get the longest commercially available rollerskis (Marwe combi
+ wirewheel at about 825mm for classic; maybe the longer Jenex for
skating?); or you can build something that will be too unwieldy for the
physical conditioning you desire. For the first choice especially, I'll
suggest Crash Pads (for snowboarders and skaters), lightweight knee and
elbow pads and, of course, a helmet. Crash Pads:
http://www.crash-pads.com/. I used to use the mesh-underwear style and
they're very effective. Once lost my balance going downhill on
rollerskis and took a ten foot slide on my hip/butt. No scratches, just
shook it off, got up and carried on.

Btw, another way to employ rollerskis would be just to use them for
double poling. Very effective workout, perhaps the most effective on
rollerskis, and much safer; can build up to 1.5 to 2 hour sessions.
It could be done on skate rollerskis with longer poles or on
something like the long Marwe I suggested above with classical
poles.

The third choice is to skip it and do lots of other long and short
distance exercising (bike, row, hike/run), plus gym work (strength,
elliptical machine, etc.). There are people I've known over the years
who choose not to rollerski and do just fine racing, getting back what
they need at the beginning of snow season.

Gene

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:57:45 +0100 (BST)
wrote:

In article ,
dardruba wrote:

For various reasons, I need ones a couple of
metres long, with ratchet wheels on the front and a REAR braking
system operated by moving my calves.


Hi Nick, you seem reluctant to tell us why you Really Really need
this item, who would be using it and on what terrain.


Not really, but I was trying to keep it simple :-(

If you could give us some clues as to its potential usage I'm sure
the skiers on here could help.


I doubt it :-)

I believe that length will not get you round any of the sharp
corners on the tracks used for our roller ski events and as for
going up inclines you will need those forward roll wheels to stop
you from glissading backwards.


I have a strong negative interest in such tracks.

As for the long road in Hyde Park or on Blackpool Promenade you will
not have the ability to skip around the gawpers who stop in front of
you as we do on roller blades or roller skis.


I have a Very, Very Strong negative interest in such locations.


Now, as to why:

I am 65 (and hence vulnerable to crashes) with no vestibular
(semi-circular canal) balance at all. None whatsoever. I balance
almost entirely by touch, and have done for almost all of my life,
so I can ride a stable bicycle and ski (to some extent). In
particular:

I want to be able to use this to get fit for real cross-country
skiing (which I might take up again, after 40+ years), and am
talking about travelling at 10-15 MPH. I need to be able to stop
in an emergency, and therefore need brakes.

If I catch my feet when leaning forward, I WILL crash onto
my face. That was why I couldn't learn to skate in my youth,
because they required us to use figure-skating skates. Therefore
I must have rear brakes.

Short rollerskis and (effectively) a J-stop WILL cause me to
crash. I can do that on snow, because I can (just) control the
side-slip. That is not available with wheels.

Work that lot through, and you will see that I have two options:
to abandon this altogether, and to take the approach I am planning.
If you think that you have another approach that might work, you
are 99% certain to have misunderstood the constraints caused by
my balance.

On that matter, it is a myth that balance is controlled by one
sense. 70% of the semi-circular canal data controls eye tracking
(which I don't do - I predict), and it is the primary balancing
method in people with no handicaps. But is disappears as they
get older, and needs to be replaced by touch, which is why old
people need sticks and to hold onto things - it's NOT primarily
for support.

Vision is the third method, but is useful only to tell you which
way is up, because it is too slow (a 0.2 second delay in the
visual cortex). So I am back to solely touch. That is slower
than vestibular (tolerably so), but its real gotcha is that any
uncertainty in sensations through the feet takes nearly half
a second to reequilibrate. Oops. CRASH!

So I need to be able to stop in an emergency without having any
functioning organ of balance. With long skis and rear brakes,
it would be feasible (just) - I am not going to explain how I
know, but it's experience with similar activities. With short
rollerskis, no chance.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Ads
  #12  
Old April 29th 13, 05:35 PM posted to uk.d-i-y,rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 572
Default Roll your own rollerskis

P.S. Your estimate of 10-15 mph seems way high, assuming we're
using the same system. Ten mph is a mile every six minutes, which
translates to ~3:45/kilometer, if my calculation is correct. At any
age, it's unlikely balance is a serious issue at that speed. My hunch
is something more in the 7-9 min/mile range, which if you're having
balance problems is fast enough to be quite scary at times.

Gene

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 11:18:57 -0600
wrote:

Nick, you're very brave to give this a try again given longstanding
balance issues (at 66, I've found my balance is much better than when
younger, in good part due to the demands of x-c skiing and
rollerskiing).

If you pursue this, then I think it's a choice of picking your poison:
get the longest commercially available rollerskis (Marwe combi
+ wirewheel at about 825mm for classic; maybe the longer Jenex for
skating?); or you can build something that will be too unwieldy for
the physical conditioning you desire. For the first choice
especially, I'll suggest Crash Pads (for snowboarders and skaters),
lightweight knee and elbow pads and, of course, a helmet. Crash Pads:
http://www.crash-pads.com/. I used to use the mesh-underwear style and
they're very effective. Once lost my balance going downhill on
rollerskis and took a ten foot slide on my hip/butt. No scratches,
just shook it off, got up and carried on.

Btw, another way to employ rollerskis would be just to use them for
double poling. Very effective workout, perhaps the most effective on
rollerskis, and much safer; can build up to 1.5 to 2 hour sessions.
It could be done on skate rollerskis with longer poles or on
something like the long Marwe I suggested above with classical
poles.

The third choice is to skip it and do lots of other long and short
distance exercising (bike, row, hike/run), plus gym work (strength,
elliptical machine, etc.). There are people I've known over the years
who choose not to rollerski and do just fine racing, getting back what
they need at the beginning of snow season.

Gene

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:57:45 +0100 (BST)
wrote:

In article ,
dardruba wrote:

For various reasons, I need ones a couple of
metres long, with ratchet wheels on the front and a REAR braking
system operated by moving my calves.

Hi Nick, you seem reluctant to tell us why you Really Really need
this item, who would be using it and on what terrain.


Not really, but I was trying to keep it simple :-(

If you could give us some clues as to its potential usage I'm sure
the skiers on here could help.


I doubt it :-)

I believe that length will not get you round any of the sharp
corners on the tracks used for our roller ski events and as for
going up inclines you will need those forward roll wheels to stop
you from glissading backwards.


I have a strong negative interest in such tracks.

As for the long road in Hyde Park or on Blackpool Promenade you
will not have the ability to skip around the gawpers who stop in
front of you as we do on roller blades or roller skis.


I have a Very, Very Strong negative interest in such locations.


Now, as to why:

I am 65 (and hence vulnerable to crashes) with no vestibular
(semi-circular canal) balance at all. None whatsoever. I balance
almost entirely by touch, and have done for almost all of my life,
so I can ride a stable bicycle and ski (to some extent). In
particular:

I want to be able to use this to get fit for real cross-country
skiing (which I might take up again, after 40+ years), and am
talking about travelling at 10-15 MPH. I need to be able to stop
in an emergency, and therefore need brakes.

If I catch my feet when leaning forward, I WILL crash onto
my face. That was why I couldn't learn to skate in my youth,
because they required us to use figure-skating skates. Therefore
I must have rear brakes.

Short rollerskis and (effectively) a J-stop WILL cause me to
crash. I can do that on snow, because I can (just) control the
side-slip. That is not available with wheels.

Work that lot through, and you will see that I have two options:
to abandon this altogether, and to take the approach I am planning.
If you think that you have another approach that might work, you
are 99% certain to have misunderstood the constraints caused by
my balance.

On that matter, it is a myth that balance is controlled by one
sense. 70% of the semi-circular canal data controls eye tracking
(which I don't do - I predict), and it is the primary balancing
method in people with no handicaps. But is disappears as they
get older, and needs to be replaced by touch, which is why old
people need sticks and to hold onto things - it's NOT primarily
for support.

Vision is the third method, but is useful only to tell you which
way is up, because it is too slow (a 0.2 second delay in the
visual cortex). So I am back to solely touch. That is slower
than vestibular (tolerably so), but its real gotcha is that any
uncertainty in sensations through the feet takes nearly half
a second to reequilibrate. Oops. CRASH!

So I need to be able to stop in an emergency without having any
functioning organ of balance. With long skis and rear brakes,
it would be feasible (just) - I am not going to explain how I
know, but it's experience with similar activities. With short
rollerskis, no chance.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

  #13  
Old April 30th 13, 05:10 PM posted to uk.d-i-y,rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Roll your own rollerskis

In article ,
wrote:

Nick, you're very brave to give this a try again given longstanding
balance issues (at 66, I've found my balance is much better than when
younger, in good part due to the demands of x-c skiing and
rollerskiing).


Or a complete loon :-)

At 64, I decided to try downhill skiing, on the grounds that it was
then or never. Half of my friends said I was a total loon, and
the other half said "Go for it". Well, 150 hours of practice (and
I mean that) later, I can handle blue and the easier red, but I
have to concentrate 100% for that, so it's VERY tiring. I am OK
on green. That's all parallel turning.

If you pursue this, then I think it's a choice of picking your poison:
get the longest commercially available rollerskis (Marwe combi
+ wirewheel at about 825mm for classic; maybe the longer Jenex for
skating?); or you can build something that will be too unwieldy for the
physical conditioning you desire. ...


I am not quite sure about the latter. It's really the muscles at
the front of the thigh and hip that I am thinking of, and the
length of the ski doesn't matter. I would be using a very long,
straightish stretch of tarmac, so turning isn't an issue.

I take the points about protective kit on tarmac - I don't mind
falling on snow or moorland, but rock and tarmac can break things.
The problem about other exercise is that it wouldn't help much
for the muscles and ligaments that I remember suffering. It took
me a week to be free of pain when I was 30, so only the second
week was entirely pleasurable!

P.S. Your estimate of 10-15 mph seems way high, assuming we're
using the same system. Ten mph is a mile every six minutes, which
translates to ~3:45/kilometer, if my calculation is correct. At any
age, it's unlikely balance is a serious issue at that speed. My hunch
is something more in the 7-9 min/mile range, which if you're having
balance problems is fast enough to be quite scary at times.


That could well be. I failed to find any reasonable indicative
speeds of rollerskis, and was guessing from my cycling and old
skiing speeds. 6-10 MPH might be more plausible, but it doesn't
really help, as the real damage comes from the falling down from
a standing height.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
  #14  
Old April 30th 13, 05:39 PM posted to uk.d-i-y,rec.skiing.nordic
Alan Braggins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Roll your own rollerskis

In article , wrote:

I would like to try rollerskiing, but absolutely cannot handle the
off-the-shelf ones. For various reasons, I need ones a couple of
metres long, with ratchet wheels on the front and a REAR braking
system operated by moving my calves. There doesn't seem to be
any easy way of getting components (affordably) to build my own.
I would probably use wood for the bearing member, or possibly
aluminium section - very light weight and elegance aren't needed.

Has anyone done this, or got any useful information?


I have seen someone using ones that long, or at least significantly
longer than most of the ones showing up on Google images, but have no
idea what fittings they had. (It was on holiday in France, so not
somewhere I can look out for him again and ask....)
He seemed to be using his poles for propulsion rather than skating
or ratchet wheels (fishscale/skin equivalent?), and it looked like
XC ski bindings for his shoes. But that was from just casually
seeing him pass, not detailed study. (But having now Googled the calf
activated braking systems for roller skis, I'm pretty sure he didn't
have them.)

I noticed there were used skis at Milton recycling centre the last
couple of times I've been dropping stuff off. You would have to be
slightly cautious they had been thrown out because of surface/edges
being beaten up and not structural damage, but would they be any use
as the bearing member? Or would they be much too flexible when supported
by wheels at the end rather than along their whole length?
  #15  
Old April 30th 13, 05:42 PM posted to uk.d-i-y,rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 572
Default Roll your own rollerskis

I would think you could get much of the muscle development you're
looking for with an elliptical machine (arms, legs), the kind where the
foot pieces can go forward and back, and the forward position allows
being upright or forward leaning. Pedalling backward is really good for
the quads and anyone with a bad knee. Forward gives all around legs
and conditioning. It's not nearly x-c skiing in aerobic demand, and
there won't many long distance like sessions, but it does help a lot.
I use one regularly at the gym, such as for getting race pace intervals
from 3 to 30 mins on the cheap.

Gene

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 18:10:06 +0100 (BST)
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

Nick, you're very brave to give this a try again given longstanding
balance issues (at 66, I've found my balance is much better than when
younger, in good part due to the demands of x-c skiing and
rollerskiing).


Or a complete loon :-)

At 64, I decided to try downhill skiing, on the grounds that it was
then or never. Half of my friends said I was a total loon, and
the other half said "Go for it". Well, 150 hours of practice (and
I mean that) later, I can handle blue and the easier red, but I
have to concentrate 100% for that, so it's VERY tiring. I am OK
on green. That's all parallel turning.

If you pursue this, then I think it's a choice of picking your
poison: get the longest commercially available rollerskis (Marwe
combi
+ wirewheel at about 825mm for classic; maybe the longer Jenex for
skating?); or you can build something that will be too unwieldy for
the physical conditioning you desire. ...


I am not quite sure about the latter. It's really the muscles at
the front of the thigh and hip that I am thinking of, and the
length of the ski doesn't matter. I would be using a very long,
straightish stretch of tarmac, so turning isn't an issue.

I take the points about protective kit on tarmac - I don't mind
falling on snow or moorland, but rock and tarmac can break things.
The problem about other exercise is that it wouldn't help much
for the muscles and ligaments that I remember suffering. It took
me a week to be free of pain when I was 30, so only the second
week was entirely pleasurable!

P.S. Your estimate of 10-15 mph seems way high, assuming we're
using the same system. Ten mph is a mile every six minutes, which
translates to ~3:45/kilometer, if my calculation is correct. At any
age, it's unlikely balance is a serious issue at that speed. My
hunch is something more in the 7-9 min/mile range, which if you're
having balance problems is fast enough to be quite scary at times.


That could well be. I failed to find any reasonable indicative
speeds of rollerskis, and was guessing from my cycling and old
skiing speeds. 6-10 MPH might be more plausible, but it doesn't
really help, as the real damage comes from the falling down from
a standing height.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

  #16  
Old April 30th 13, 07:02 PM posted to uk.d-i-y,rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Roll your own rollerskis

In article ,
Alan Braggins wrote:

I noticed there were used skis at Milton recycling centre the last
couple of times I've been dropping stuff off. You would have to be
slightly cautious they had been thrown out because of surface/edges
being beaten up and not structural damage, but would they be any use
as the bearing member? Or would they be much too flexible when supported
by wheels at the end rather than along their whole length?


Too flexible, I am afraid. But spruce or aluminium section (as
in pre-monocoque aircraft) should be fine.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
  #17  
Old April 30th 13, 07:04 PM posted to uk.d-i-y,rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Roll your own rollerskis

In article ,
wrote:
I would think you could get much of the muscle development you're
looking for with an elliptical machine (arms, legs), the kind where the
foot pieces can go forward and back, and the forward position allows
being upright or forward leaning. Pedalling backward is really good for
the quads and anyone with a bad knee. Forward gives all around legs
and conditioning. It's not nearly x-c skiing in aerobic demand, and
there won't many long distance like sessions, but it does help a lot.
I use one regularly at the gym, such as for getting race pace intervals
from 3 to 30 mins on the cheap.


Some. I have tried them, but don't like them much for a good many
reasons, including having to hold on fairly hard for balance.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
  #18  
Old May 6th 13, 01:40 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
delltodd[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Roll your own rollerskis

On Friday, April 26, 2013 1:21:18 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I would like to try rollerskiing, but absolutely cannot handle the

off-the-shelf ones. For various reasons, I need ones a couple of

metres long, with ratchet wheels on the front and a REAR braking

system operated by moving my calves. There doesn't seem to be

any easy way of getting components (affordably) to build my own.

I would probably use wood for the bearing member, or possibly

aluminium section - very light weight and elegance aren't needed.



Has anyone done this, or got any useful information?





Regards,

Nick Maclaren.


Nick,

I would encourage you to bail on the rollerski project given your constraints. Instead, pick up some ski poles and walk / hike / perhaps run with them.. Your ski fitness will be greatly jacked up for skiing next season. It's far more enjoyable. Rollerskis are hazardous contraptions under optimal circumstances, and are generally a lot less fun after about the first 10 hours maybe less.
DT
  #19  
Old May 18th 13, 04:39 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
runcyclexcski
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Roll your own rollerskis

On Friday, April 26, 2013 1:21:18 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I would like to try rollerskiing, but absolutely cannot handle the

off-the-shelf ones. For various reasons, I need ones a couple of

metres long, with ratchet wheels on the front and a REAR braking

system operated by moving my calves. There doesn't seem to be

any easy way of getting components (affordably) to build my own.

I would probably use wood for the bearing member, or possibly

aluminium section - very light weight and elegance aren't needed.



Has anyone done this, or got any useful information?





Regards,

Nick Maclaren.


When I was a kid, I remember seeing a manual on how to put wheels on regular cross-country skis. That was in a Russian DIY magazine in the mid 80-s, so back then "regular" length was 2m. You can get old-school wood skis for this for free from someone's garage. I don't see why one can't use skateboard wheels, or smth.

A google search in Russian produced the publication with a surprising ease. Not sure this is exactly what you want though, they don't use poles.

http://zhurnalko.net/=sam/junyj-tehnik/1986-08--num72

 




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