Stricter Enforcement of Ski Carriage Charges for UK Flights?

Are operators, reps/customer service staff, check-in staff, baggage
handlers, etc. getting more draconian this season in enforcing the
requirement for skis/boards to have prepaid carriage fees?

I've heard that so far this season, quite a few (25 or so) punters have had
to leave their skis in the UK because they hadn't pre-paid carriage. Or,
they have to pay the excess baggage fees which are invariably far higher
than the typical 15 quid prepaid carriage fee.

Others are revealing that they are now having to show proof of payment. That
it is not possible to pay at the airport, especially where reps or customer
service staff are not present.

I've had conflicting sources. Paraphrasing, some say "Nope, seems like the
same policy as usual. Haven't noticed higher numbers of complaints (that
would result from tightening up of the policy)", and some say "You'll be
extremely lucky now to get your skis on without prebooked carriage".

Can anyone shed light?

Sorry for stirring the pot, but if they are clamping down, I think we need
to know about it.


(I also mentioned this on snowheads.com)

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:13:57 -0800, "visionset"
wrote:


"Crosbie Fitch" wrote in message
...

Are operators, reps/customer service staff, check-in staff, baggage
handlers, etc. getting more draconian this season in enforcing the
requirement for skis/boards to have prepaid carriage fees?

More importantly do the tour operators ethically/legally have any right to
charge?
Surely it is a matter for the airline alone.
I have often phoned the airline in question and the response is invariably
they will carry anything up to the baggage weight limit free of charge.
What the hell has it to do with the tour operator? What is the legal
viewpoint on this?

If they were making a charge that was not passed on to the airline it
would certainly be unethical...

To clarify for the legal eagles:
Ski's/Boards are usually required by a tour operator to have a carriage fee
paid for them. But the airline does not.

....but that's not generally the case. Most scheduled airlines nowadays
will charge you directly for ski/board transport. Tour operators tend
to use charter flights anyway, so they 'own' the seats that they've
pre-booked and can therefore make any such charges as they see fit. If
you were to book a charter seat directly with the airline you would be
charged significantly more than the tour operator anyway.

To be fair, if you, as a non-ski-carrying passenger, were having to
pay slightly more to subsidise the extra weight and handling charges
incurred by ski carriage, wouldn't you feel just a teensy bit peeved?

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

"Ace" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:13:57 -0800, "visionset"
wrote:


"Crosbie Fitch" wrote in message
...

Are operators, reps/customer service staff, check-in staff, baggage
handlers, etc. getting more draconian this season in enforcing the
requirement for skis/boards to have prepaid carriage fees?

More importantly do the tour operators ethically/legally have any right
to
charge?
Surely it is a matter for the airline alone.
I have often phoned the airline in question and the response is
invariably
they will carry anything up to the baggage weight limit free of charge.
What the hell has it to do with the tour operator? What is the legal
viewpoint on this?

If they were making a charge that was not passed on to the airline it
would certainly be unethical...

To clarify for the legal eagles:
Ski's/Boards are usually required by a tour operator to have a carriage
fee
paid for them. But the airline does not.

...but that's not generally the case. Most scheduled airlines nowadays
will charge you directly for ski/board transport. Tour operators tend
to use charter flights anyway, so they 'own' the seats that they've
pre-booked and can therefore make any such charges as they see fit. If
you were to book a charter seat directly with the airline you would be
charged significantly more than the tour operator anyway.

To be fair, if you, as a non-ski-carrying passenger, were having to
pay slightly more to subsidise the extra weight and handling charges
incurred by ski carriage, wouldn't you feel just a teensy bit peeved?


Often there is no extra weight. When I go snowboarding I put all my luggage
into
my board bag. I turn up with 1 bag which is within weight limits and they
charged
me £18 for the priviledge. The person infront had 2 large bags which
totallyed @ 40Kg
which was over the limit yet they did not have to pay anything.

Rob

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the
Ski Club.

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:51:56 -0000, "Rob" wrote:


"Ace" wrote in message
.. .

To be fair, if you, as a non-ski-carrying passenger, were having to
pay slightly more to subsidise the extra weight and handling charges
incurred by ski carriage, wouldn't you feel just a teensy bit peeved?


Often there is no extra weight. When I go snowboarding I put all my luggage
into
my board bag. I turn up with 1 bag which is within weight limits and they
charged
me £18 for the priviledge.

Oh aye, I agree that it _should_ be done on weight, but it's often
handling reasons (i.e. it can't go on the normal luggage belt) that
mean it won't be weighed together with other baggage, rather than
simply ripping you off for the sake of it.

The person infront had 2 large bags which
totallyed @ 40Kg
which was over the limit yet they did not have to pay anything.

Well that's down to the airline/checkin person not enforcing excess
charges - not something that affects their policy of charging for
skis. Next time make sure you take your full weight allowance plus
board and see if you feel any better about it.

FWIW when I've flown to skiing (a long time since, given my current
domicile) I've often loaded the double ski bag up with boots and all
sorts as well as skis, and know full well that the total weight is far
more than the allowance, so being charged £12 for it didn't seem
excessive at all. If they'd chosen to charge me excess baggage at the
going rate it would have been a lot more.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

"Ace" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:51:56 -0000, "Rob" wrote:


"Ace" wrote in message
.. .

To be fair, if you, as a non-ski-carrying passenger, were having to
pay slightly more to subsidise the extra weight and handling charges
incurred by ski carriage, wouldn't you feel just a teensy bit peeved?


Often there is no extra weight. When I go snowboarding I put all my
luggage
into
my board bag. I turn up with 1 bag which is within weight limits and they
charged
me £18 for the priviledge.

Oh aye, I agree that it _should_ be done on weight, but it's often
handling reasons (i.e. it can't go on the normal luggage belt) that
mean it won't be weighed together with other baggage, rather than
simply ripping you off for the sake of it.

The person infront had 2 large bags which
totallyed @ 40Kg
which was over the limit yet they did not have to pay anything.

Well that's down to the airline/checkin person not enforcing excess
charges - not something that affects their policy of charging for
skis. Next time make sure you take your full weight allowance plus
board and see if you feel any better about it.

FWIW when I've flown to skiing (a long time since, given my current
domicile) I've often loaded the double ski bag up with boots and all
sorts as well as skis, and know full well that the total weight is far
more than the allowance, so being charged £12 for it didn't seem
excessive at all. If they'd chosen to charge me excess baggage at the
going rate it would have been a lot more.


TBH there is not alot you can do about it so you just have to accept it,
just find
it a tad annoying.

When i went to Canada last year we were not best pleased at Air Canadas
change of
policy which meant you could only have a single board in a board bag and not
all the rest of your stuff like I currently do.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the
Ski Club.

Rob wrote:

TBH there is not alot you can do about it so you just have to accept it,
just find
it a tad annoying.
You can whine and moan and stamp your feet, it sometimes works!

When i went to Canada last year we were not best pleased at Air Canadas
change of
policy which meant you could only have a single board in a board bag and not
all the rest of your stuff like I currently do.
Worrying. I just booked on Air Canada... are they going to sting me when
I check in my skis (in 43hrs and 45 minutes, not that I'm counting)?

Getting back to the OP, I think it is becoming more and more common for
airlines to charge. Budget airlines (which are often no cheaper than
scheduled in my experience, but that's a winge for another day) always
seem to charge, charters almost always do. I wasn't aware of scheduled
carriers charging specificaly for skis, it hasn't happened to me [yet].

Steve Haigh wrote:
Rob wrote:
=20
TBH there is not alot you can do about it so you just have to accept
it, just find
it a tad annoying.
You can whine and moan and stamp your feet, it sometimes works!
=20
When i went to Canada last year we were not best pleased at Air
Canadas change of
policy which meant you could only have a single board in a board bag
and not all the rest of your stuff like I currently do.
Worrying. I just booked on Air Canada... are they going to sting me
when I check in my skis (in 43hrs and 45 minutes, not that I'm
counting)?=20
=20

According to the Air Canada site, the following items are not subject to =
surcharge:

Skis (snow or water)
A set of snow skis means one pair of skis, poles and boots. For water =
skis it's a pair, or a single slalom. These sets are considered as one =
piece of checked baggage and no other item(s) can be carried in the =
package . The skis and poles must be packaged in a rigid and/or =
hardshell container specifically designed for shipping. If otherwise =
packaged, the item(s) will only be accepted with a limited release form =
(to be signed at check-in), releasing Air Canada of liability.

Snowboards
A set consists of one snowboard and one pair of boots. This set is =
considered as one piece of checked baggage and no other item(s) can be =
carried in the package . The snowboard must be packaged in a rigid =
and/or hardshell container specifically designed for shipping. If =
otherwise packaged, the item will only be accepted with a limited =
release form (to be signed at check-in), releasing Air Canada of =
liability.

http://www.aircanada.ca/services/lug...html#sportfree

Getting back to the OP, I think it is becoming more and more common
for airlines to charge. Budget airlines (which are often no cheaper
than scheduled in my experience, but that's a winge for another day)
always seem to charge, charters almost always do. I wasn't aware of
scheduled carriers charging specificaly for skis, it hasn't happened
to me [yet].=20

I always check the carriage terms before booking - if you look at =
EasyJet/Ryaniar etc.. they all have varying policies on sporting goods.

--=20
cupra (remove nospam please to mail)

To add to Ace's sensible post:

Part of the reason that charges are made is that charter aircraft costs are
tightly controlled. That means that there is often an overall limit on
weight AND size of bags, especially with the smaller aircraft in use from
and to regional airports these days. Larger baggage holds and heavier weight
means a larger/more powerful aircraft which may not be economical on some
routes. Thus the limit of 10 or 20 sets of skis for some flights and thus
the introduction of ski carriage charges, IMO, mainly as a disincentive to
travel with skis.

Note that although these are charter flights, the airlines also often have
policies (in conjunction with tour operators) to offload skis and boots
first of all if there are weight problems or size restrictions (which is why
experienced winter travellers would NEVER put anything vital like their only
set of ski clothes in with their skis) on the basis that more valuable and
necessary items are liable to be in normal baggage. Most airlines have
caveats about outsized baggage such as skis, bikes and golf clubs in their
rules of carriage. And also note that these are almost always transported to
accommodation on their delayed arrival.

I spent much of the previous decade as (amongst other things) an airport
manager in Europe for a major ski tour company. We tried as hard as possible
to be more "draconian" - or actually to keep to the agreement with airlines
and customers about ski and overweight baggage carriage. At one point
overweight baggage had a sticky coloured label put on it with the idea that
these bags would be the ones not to be carried if there were space/weight
problems - the same with skis that had not been previously booked.

Free-for-all baggage just didn't work - on a Newcastle flight with 80 seats,
for example, there could quite easily be 30+ sets of skis which the plane
was incapable of carrying.

Unfortunately, there were two main reason why any effort to be more
"draconian" was eventually doomed to failure. One was the refusal of UK
airport staff (and, to a lesser extent, European airport staff) to put up
with the violent abuse they encountered from chancers who turned up with the
overwieght baggage or unreserved skis (thus the comments about "no excess
baggage charges at some airports), and secondly, on shared flights the other
tour company(ies) could not be bothered to give a monkey's about any
controls, rendering the exercise pointless.

--
Steve Rout

http://www.skiseefeld.com/

"Crosbie Fitch" wrote in message
...

Are operators, reps/customer service staff, check-in staff, baggage
handlers, etc. getting more draconian this season in enforcing the
requirement for skis/boards to have prepaid carriage fees?
....
(I also mentioned this on snowheads.com)


More importantly do the tour operators ethically/legally have any right to
charge?
Surely it is a matter for the airline alone.
I have often phoned the airline in question and the response is invariably
they will carry anything up to the baggage weight limit free of charge.
What the hell has it to do with the tour operator? What is the legal
viewpoint on this?

To clarify for the legal eagles:
Ski's/Boards are usually required by a tour operator to have a carriage fee
paid for them. But the airline does not.

--
Mike W

Ace wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:51:56 -0000, "Rob" wrote:


"Ace" wrote in message
. ..


To be fair, if you, as a non-ski-carrying passenger, were having to
pay slightly more to subsidise the extra weight and handling charges
incurred by ski carriage, wouldn't you feel just a teensy bit peeved?


Often there is no extra weight. When I go snowboarding I put all my luggage
into
my board bag. I turn up with 1 bag which is within weight limits and they
charged
me £18 for the priviledge.


Oh aye, I agree that it _should_ be done on weight,

So do I, and while we're there, please can I have an extra 25kg
luggage allowance :-)

I heard that the base assumption is 100kg per passenger in the form
of 75kg body mass, 20 kg hold kuggage, 5 kg hand luggage. I only
weigh 50 kg (and I fit in economy seats too, but that's another
story).

-Sarah