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Can I set my own bindings?



 
 
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  #31  
Old February 15th 07, 02:11 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Mary Malmros
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default Can I set my own bindings?

jimbo wrote in
:

Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses
the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check the
release torque, you might as well do it your self. I haven't seen any
rental shop that does anything more than set the DIN. In fact, I
haven't seen any retail stores that do anything more. I have seen only
one "expert" shop that used the device I mentioned.


It's not THAT uncommon, is it? The Grind at Mount Snow has a Wintersteiger
that they test with -- I know because all instructors need to get their
gear checked out on this every year.
Ads
  #32  
Old February 15th 07, 02:15 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
bumpfreaq
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 131
Default Can I set my own bindings?

On Feb 15, 8:31 am, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 1:31 pm, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:20 am, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 13, 5:24 pm, Walt wrote:
Yeah, like tattoos, haircuts, and appendectomies, you don't want to do
it yourself and you don't want to go to the cheapest guy in town.
Hey, what's wrong with cutting my own hair?
Well, it seems like an unnecessary effort for one.
http://www.frappr.com/?a=photo&gid=381229&pid=363620&src=flash_slidet...
//Walt
Hooohooo! To the contrary, it's a necessary effort to cut lots and
lots of my hairs a few times a week in order to maintain that clean
and shiny look.
Chris
3 more days of work
4 more days 'til I'm driving west
5 more days 'til sliding down that slippery slope
And.... it's snowing in CO
SnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowSnowsnowsnowsn owsnowsnowsnowsnowsnow
Snowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowbeercheeseands now
Clearly a terminal case of short-timer syndrome.


Short-timer?


You are so invested in getting out of where you are to go
on to the next thing that you are incapable of doing any
real work where you are now.


Oh, short-timer..... I get it. But jeez I sure hope you don't really
know what you're talking about. I've been doing a ton of extra work
where I am now so that I won't be missed so much while I'm gone.

The "so invested" part is certainly on the money though.

Chris
2
3
4

  #33  
Old February 15th 07, 02:36 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Walt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,188
Default Can I set my own bindings?

VtSkier wrote:
jimbo wrote:


Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses
the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check the
release torque, you might as well do it your self.


If the "expert" doesn't use the release check device, don't pay him.


Right. But you won't find any shop in the US that will adjust a binding
without subsequently doing a release check.


I haven't seen any
rental shop that does anything more than set the DIN. In fact, I
haven't seen any retail stores that do anything more. I have seen only
one "expert" shop that used the device I mentioned.


Here's how it works with rental shops:

They spend many hours in the off-season putting each ski through the
release check device at various DIN settings to verify that the binding
is releasing properly. Then, when the hoards show up at the height of
the season, they can just set the DIN and hand out the skis. This saves
a lot of time on those busy holiday mornings. And that's why you've
never seen the rental counters put the skis on the release check device
- you'd need to visit in the fall when they're doing the prep work.

//Walt


  #34  
Old February 15th 07, 04:14 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,233
Default Can I set my own bindings?

bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 15, 8:31 am, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 1:31 pm, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:20 am, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 13, 5:24 pm, Walt wrote:
Yeah, like tattoos, haircuts, and appendectomies, you don't want to do
it yourself and you don't want to go to the cheapest guy in town.
Hey, what's wrong with cutting my own hair?
Well, it seems like an unnecessary effort for one.
http://www.frappr.com/?a=photo&gid=381229&pid=363620&src=flash_slidet...
//Walt
Hooohooo! To the contrary, it's a necessary effort to cut lots and
lots of my hairs a few times a week in order to maintain that clean
and shiny look.
Chris
3 more days of work
4 more days 'til I'm driving west
5 more days 'til sliding down that slippery slope
And.... it's snowing in CO
SnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowSnowsnowsnowsn owsnowsnowsnowsnowsnow
Snowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowbeercheeseands now
Clearly a terminal case of short-timer syndrome.
Short-timer?

You are so invested in getting out of where you are to go
on to the next thing that you are incapable of doing any
real work where you are now.


Oh, short-timer..... I get it. But jeez I sure hope you don't really
know what you're talking about. I've been doing a ton of extra work
where I am now so that I won't be missed so much while I'm gone.

The "so invested" part is certainly on the money though.

Chris
2
3
4


Certainly I don't *know* what I'm talking about. The only thing
I know is what you wrote. You are so excited about getting in
some *real* turns I thought I'd chide you a bit with the short-
timer thing. Yeah, I really do know what it's like to get
everything done before a vacation.
  #35  
Old February 15th 07, 08:16 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
The Real Bev
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 464
Default Can I set my own bindings?

VtSkier wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:
JQ wrote:

"jimbo" wrote:
Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses
the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check
the release torque, you might as well do it your self. I haven't seen
any rental shop that does anything more than set the DIN. In fact, I
haven't seen any retail stores that do anything more. I have seen
only one "expert" shop that used the device I mentioned.

Just my opinion, jimbo

I seen a few places do the binding test at others I haven't because it
was done in a room that you have no access to.
The tool goes in side the boot and has a gauge similar to a torque
wrench but when the boot pops out it hold the reading.

I believe most shops have the tool but generally it is kept out of sight.


It seems like it might not be all that difficult to make your own out of
a shoe tree and a torque wrench.


That is essentially the Vermont Safety Research system.

1) you need to be able to read the torque wrench at the instant
of release. To do this, the VSR wrench has a little plastic
sliding thingy (technical term) that moves with the indicator
and stays put when the indicator pops back to zero. I don't
know if VSR puts the plastic thingy on the wrench or if the
wrench comes that way.


Couldn't you just watch carefully and note the point of release? Doing it
several times ought to clinch the matter.

2) with those two items you can now test lateral release at
the toepiece.

3) to test forward release (more important IMO, because my
ONLY releases in the last 10 years were sticking my skis into
a mogul and having a double eject), you will need a "leg" for
the shoe tree. The torque settings depend on the length of
the "leg" and the leg has to be firmly attached to the boot.

To me this is the larger problem.


Yeah. I'm even having difficulty figuring out where/how to attach the wrench
unless there's a kind of torque wrench that I've never seen (socket sticking
straight out in line with the handle). OTOH, I don't do moguls or ungroomed
and am unlikely to do anything but fall to the side and roll ski-less for a
while.

4) your torque wrench needs to be calibrated in newton-meters
(European standard) not foot-pounds (US standard). Not a
difficult problem, but will avoid a lot of math since the
tables for binding torque values are all listed in Newton-
meters.


http://www.onlineconversion.com/ and
http://www.onlineconversion.com/torque.htm

Is there a difference between "pound foot" and "foot-pound"? And WTF is a
poundal foot?

--
Cheers,
Bev
__________________________________________________ ____
"Parasites plus suckers do not add up to a community."
-- Thomas Sowell
  #36  
Old February 15th 07, 08:36 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,233
Default Can I set my own bindings?

The Real Bev wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:
JQ wrote:

"jimbo" wrote:
Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses
the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check
the release torque, you might as well do it your self. I haven't
seen any rental shop that does anything more than set the DIN. In
fact, I haven't seen any retail stores that do anything more. I
have seen only one "expert" shop that used the device I mentioned.

Just my opinion, jimbo

I seen a few places do the binding test at others I haven't because
it was done in a room that you have no access to.
The tool goes in side the boot and has a gauge similar to a torque
wrench but when the boot pops out it hold the reading.

I believe most shops have the tool but generally it is kept out of
sight.

It seems like it might not be all that difficult to make your own out
of a shoe tree and a torque wrench.


That is essentially the Vermont Safety Research system.

1) you need to be able to read the torque wrench at the instant
of release. To do this, the VSR wrench has a little plastic
sliding thingy (technical term) that moves with the indicator
and stays put when the indicator pops back to zero. I don't
know if VSR puts the plastic thingy on the wrench or if the
wrench comes that way.


Couldn't you just watch carefully and note the point of release? Doing
it several times ought to clinch the matter.


You can probably get fairly close, and the torque values
for any given setting are a "range", not a single value.

2) with those two items you can now test lateral release at
the toepiece.

3) to test forward release (more important IMO, because my
ONLY releases in the last 10 years were sticking my skis into
a mogul and having a double eject), you will need a "leg" for
the shoe tree. The torque settings depend on the length of
the "leg" and the leg has to be firmly attached to the boot.

To me this is the larger problem.


Yeah. I'm even having difficulty figuring out where/how to attach the
wrench unless there's a kind of torque wrench that I've never seen
(socket sticking straight out in line with the handle). OTOH, I don't
do moguls or ungroomed and am unlikely to do anything but fall to the
side and roll ski-less for a while.


The "leg" in the VSR system has the 1/2" square hole in the top
of the leg, positioned such that the arm of the wrench is
in line with the "leg". There is a small foot shape at the
bottom of the leg to keep it from rotating. It then has a
cable which goes under the heel of the boot and attaches part
way up the leg to hold everything in place. We used to put
the ski, boot, leg and wrench on the floor with a human foot
on the back of the ski to hold it in place. The whole assembly
is at least 4 1/2 feet tall. Remember that the length of the
"leg" is critical for accurate measurement.

4) your torque wrench needs to be calibrated in newton-meters
(European standard) not foot-pounds (US standard). Not a
difficult problem, but will avoid a lot of math since the
tables for binding torque values are all listed in Newton-
meters.


http://www.onlineconversion.com/ and
http://www.onlineconversion.com/torque.htm


Yeah, I figured a table would be available, but it shouldn't be
too big a deal to get a newton-meter wrench.

Is there a difference between "pound foot" and "foot-pound"? And WTF is
a poundal foot?


Pound-foot is simply more analogous to newton-meter. Pound is the
English notation for weight, which is mass with the force of gravity
working on it. Newton is the metric equivalent, where grams is
ONLY the mass of an object, even though it is use interchangeably
with "weight", it's not weight.

And, of course, foot and meter are the respective system's measure
of length. Force is the unit used to express moving a weight some
distance. If the force is rotational, it's called "torque".

As for "poundal-foot", I'd guess a misspelling or somebody trying
to jargon-ize.

Now, having bought all that, isn't it easier to just go to the
shop and have it done? However you pay for it doesn't matter. I'd
say a case of beer would be good as long as you get something else
for your effort. A case of Long Trail (the local brew) is $18 at
the brewery down the street, a little more in the stores.
  #37  
Old February 15th 07, 08:58 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Walt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,188
Default Can I set my own bindings?

VtSkier wrote:
The Real Bev wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:
JQ wrote:

"jimbo" wrote:
Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose
uses the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to
check the release torque, you might as well do it your self. I
haven't seen any rental shop that does anything more than set the
DIN. In fact, I haven't seen any retail stores that do anything
more. I have seen only one "expert" shop that used the device I
mentioned.

Just my opinion, jimbo

I seen a few places do the binding test at others I haven't because
it was done in a room that you have no access to.
The tool goes in side the boot and has a gauge similar to a torque
wrench but when the boot pops out it hold the reading.

I believe most shops have the tool but generally it is kept out of
sight.

It seems like it might not be all that difficult to make your own
out of a shoe tree and a torque wrench.

That is essentially the Vermont Safety Research system.

1) you need to be able to read the torque wrench at the instant
of release. To do this, the VSR wrench has a little plastic
sliding thingy (technical term) that moves with the indicator
and stays put when the indicator pops back to zero. I don't
know if VSR puts the plastic thingy on the wrench or if the
wrench comes that way.


Couldn't you just watch carefully and note the point of release?
Doing it several times ought to clinch the matter.


You can probably get fairly close, and the torque values
for any given setting are a "range", not a single value.

2) with those two items you can now test lateral release at
the toepiece.

3) to test forward release (more important IMO, because my
ONLY releases in the last 10 years were sticking my skis into
a mogul and having a double eject), you will need a "leg" for
the shoe tree. The torque settings depend on the length of
the "leg" and the leg has to be firmly attached to the boot.

To me this is the larger problem.


Yeah. I'm even having difficulty figuring out where/how to attach the
wrench unless there's a kind of torque wrench that I've never seen
(socket sticking straight out in line with the handle). OTOH, I don't
do moguls or ungroomed and am unlikely to do anything but fall to the
side and roll ski-less for a while.


The "leg" in the VSR system has the 1/2" square hole in the top
of the leg, positioned such that the arm of the wrench is
in line with the "leg". There is a small foot shape at the
bottom of the leg to keep it from rotating. It then has a
cable which goes under the heel of the boot and attaches part
way up the leg to hold everything in place. We used to put
the ski, boot, leg and wrench on the floor with a human foot
on the back of the ski to hold it in place. The whole assembly
is at least 4 1/2 feet tall. Remember that the length of the
"leg" is critical for accurate measurement.

4) your torque wrench needs to be calibrated in newton-meters
(European standard) not foot-pounds (US standard). Not a
difficult problem, but will avoid a lot of math since the
tables for binding torque values are all listed in Newton-
meters.


http://www.onlineconversion.com/ and
http://www.onlineconversion.com/torque.htm


Yeah, I figured a table would be available, but it shouldn't be
too big a deal to get a newton-meter wrench.

Is there a difference between "pound foot" and "foot-pound"? And WTF
is a poundal foot?


Pound-foot is simply more analogous to newton-meter. Pound is the
English notation for weight, which is mass with the force of gravity
working on it. Newton is the metric equivalent, where grams is
ONLY the mass of an object, even though it is use interchangeably
with "weight", it's not weight.

And, of course, foot and meter are the respective system's measure
of length. Force is the unit used to express moving a weight some
distance. If the force is rotational, it's called "torque".


Pound is the unit of force in the English system. Weight is the force
that is due to gravity, but it's a force all the same so that's why we
express weight in units of force: i.e. pounds.

Newton is the unit of force in the metric system.

Torque is rotational force, and is expressed as the force times the





As for "poundal-foot", I'd guess a misspelling or somebody trying
to jargon-ize.

Now, having bought all that, isn't it easier to just go to the
shop and have it done? However you pay for it doesn't matter. I'd
say a case of beer would be good as long as you get something else
for your effort. A case of Long Trail (the local brew) is $18 at
the brewery down the street, a little more in the stores.

  #38  
Old February 15th 07, 09:24 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,233
Default Can I set my own bindings?

Walt wrote:
VtSkier wrote:
The Real Bev wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:
JQ wrote:

"jimbo" wrote:
Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose
uses the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to
check the release torque, you might as well do it your self. I
haven't seen any rental shop that does anything more than set the
DIN. In fact, I haven't seen any retail stores that do anything
more. I have seen only one "expert" shop that used the device I
mentioned.

Just my opinion, jimbo

I seen a few places do the binding test at others I haven't
because it was done in a room that you have no access to.
The tool goes in side the boot and has a gauge similar to a torque
wrench but when the boot pops out it hold the reading.

I believe most shops have the tool but generally it is kept out of
sight.

It seems like it might not be all that difficult to make your own
out of a shoe tree and a torque wrench.

That is essentially the Vermont Safety Research system.

1) you need to be able to read the torque wrench at the instant
of release. To do this, the VSR wrench has a little plastic
sliding thingy (technical term) that moves with the indicator
and stays put when the indicator pops back to zero. I don't
know if VSR puts the plastic thingy on the wrench or if the
wrench comes that way.

Couldn't you just watch carefully and note the point of release?
Doing it several times ought to clinch the matter.


You can probably get fairly close, and the torque values
for any given setting are a "range", not a single value.

2) with those two items you can now test lateral release at
the toepiece.

3) to test forward release (more important IMO, because my
ONLY releases in the last 10 years were sticking my skis into
a mogul and having a double eject), you will need a "leg" for
the shoe tree. The torque settings depend on the length of
the "leg" and the leg has to be firmly attached to the boot.

To me this is the larger problem.

Yeah. I'm even having difficulty figuring out where/how to attach the
wrench unless there's a kind of torque wrench that I've never seen
(socket sticking straight out in line with the handle). OTOH, I
don't do moguls or ungroomed and am unlikely to do anything but fall
to the side and roll ski-less for a while.


The "leg" in the VSR system has the 1/2" square hole in the top
of the leg, positioned such that the arm of the wrench is
in line with the "leg". There is a small foot shape at the
bottom of the leg to keep it from rotating. It then has a
cable which goes under the heel of the boot and attaches part
way up the leg to hold everything in place. We used to put
the ski, boot, leg and wrench on the floor with a human foot
on the back of the ski to hold it in place. The whole assembly
is at least 4 1/2 feet tall. Remember that the length of the
"leg" is critical for accurate measurement.

4) your torque wrench needs to be calibrated in newton-meters
(European standard) not foot-pounds (US standard). Not a
difficult problem, but will avoid a lot of math since the
tables for binding torque values are all listed in Newton-
meters.

http://www.onlineconversion.com/ and
http://www.onlineconversion.com/torque.htm


Yeah, I figured a table would be available, but it shouldn't be
too big a deal to get a newton-meter wrench.

Is there a difference between "pound foot" and "foot-pound"? And WTF
is a poundal foot?


Pound-foot is simply more analogous to newton-meter. Pound is the
English notation for weight, which is mass with the force of gravity
working on it. Newton is the metric equivalent, where grams is
ONLY the mass of an object, even though it is use interchangeably
with "weight", it's not weight.

And, of course, foot and meter are the respective system's measure
of length. Force is the unit used to express moving a weight some
distance. If the force is rotational, it's called "torque".


Pound is the unit of force in the English system. Weight is the force
that is due to gravity, but it's a force all the same so that's why we
express weight in units of force: i.e. pounds.

Newton is the unit of force in the metric system.


Yes, but, generally... Force = Weight
And I realize I got my units wrong.

Torque is rotational force, and is expressed as the force times the


Almost but not quite.
Pound-foot and Newton-meter are measures of WORK which is
the movement of a weight or force over a distance. Then
Torque is rotational WORK.

In this case, a torque wrench operates in a rotational
mode.

As for "poundal-foot", I'd guess a misspelling or somebody trying
to jargon-ize.

Now, having bought all that, isn't it easier to just go to the
shop and have it done? However you pay for it doesn't matter. I'd
say a case of beer would be good as long as you get something else
for your effort. A case of Long Trail (the local brew) is $18 at
the brewery down the street, a little more in the stores.

  #39  
Old February 15th 07, 09:55 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
bumpfreaq
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 131
Default Can I set my own bindings?

On Feb 15, 11:14 am, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 15, 8:31 am, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 1:31 pm, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:20 am, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 13, 5:24 pm, Walt wrote:
Yeah, like tattoos, haircuts, and appendectomies, you don't want to do
it yourself and you don't want to go to the cheapest guy in town.
Hey, what's wrong with cutting my own hair?
Well, it seems like an unnecessary effort for one.
http://www.frappr.com/?a=photo&gid=381229&pid=363620&src=flash_slidet...
//Walt
Hooohooo! To the contrary, it's a necessary effort to cut lots and
lots of my hairs a few times a week in order to maintain that clean
and shiny look.
Chris
3 more days of work
4 more days 'til I'm driving west
5 more days 'til sliding down that slippery slope
And.... it's snowing in CO
SnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowSnowsnowsnowsn owsnowsnowsnowsnowsnow
Snowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowbeercheeseands now
Clearly a terminal case of short-timer syndrome.
Short-timer?
You are so invested in getting out of where you are to go
on to the next thing that you are incapable of doing any
real work where you are now.


Oh, short-timer..... I get it. But jeez I sure hope you don't really
know what you're talking about. I've been doing a ton of extra work
where I am now so that I won't be missed so much while I'm gone.


The "so invested" part is certainly on the money though.


Chris
2
3
4


Certainly I don't *know* what I'm talking about. The only thing
I know is what you wrote. You are so excited about getting in
some *real* turns I thought I'd chide you a bit with the short-
timer thing. Yeah, I really do know what it's like to get
everything done before a vacation.


Yeah, I could probably use the chiding. I'm pretty darn giddy looking
at the snow reports for Winter Park. Too bad I made my first week of
reservations for Summit County. They've been pretty consistently
getting half the new snow that WP has the last couple of weeks. No
matter, I'm sure it will all be good, I'll even bring a pair of firm
snow skis.

Chris

  #40  
Old February 15th 07, 10:07 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Walt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,188
Default Can I set my own bindings?

VtSkier wrote:
Walt wrote:

Pound is the unit of force in the English system. Weight is the force
that is due to gravity, but it's a force all the same so that's why we
express weight in units of force: i.e. pounds.

Newton is the unit of force in the metric system.


Yes, but, generally... Force = Weight
And I realize I got my units wrong.


Weight is just one particular kind of force (force due to gravity).
It's a common force, but not the only one. Weight is force. But force
is not necessarily weight.

Torque is rotational force, and is expressed as the force times the


Almost but not quite.
Pound-foot and Newton-meter are measures of WORK which is
the movement of a weight or force over a distance. Then
Torque is rotational WORK.

In this case, a torque wrench operates in a rotational
mode.


BTW, I actually meant to hit Cancel, but hit Send instead. mea culpa.

But, now that I'm in the middle of the argument, torque is force applied
at some distance, hence it has units of force X length (i.e. foot-pounds
or newton-metres)

Work (energy) also has units of force x distance, but to say that torque
is equivalent to work is not quite correct. For instance, if I'm trying
to unscrew a nut, but can't get the &%^$*! thing to move I may be
exerting substantial torque but I'm not doing any work since nothing's
moving.

Torque is not a form of work or energy, although the units are the same.


//Walt
 




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