Quick release method for lift tickets?

klaus wrote:
ant wrote:


Many resorts now just give you the ticket with a hole in it, and a
plastic zip tie. I guess you just need some way of cutting the zip
tie, and a handful of zip ties.

The best resorts use electronic tickets that you just put in your
pocket. Then it doesn't matter.

As long as you don't mind the indignity of humping the turnstile every
time you want to get on to the lift.

Which I don't, given the quality of terrain and lack of lines at said
hypothetical "best" resort. If I had to wait in a long line for my
turn to hump the turnstile taking sloppy nine-hundred-and-fifty
fourths I might not be so forgiving.

Plus, its the only lift ticket you can use to scrape the wax off your
skis after it's expired.

--
// Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

wrote in message
oups.com...
Rich Heimlich wrote:
I no longer shop at places that check my bag and receipt when I leave.

This is almost what I suggested about giving your business to areas
that will explicitly offer their services on terms that are agreeable
to you. Vote with you feet and your pocketbook instead of secretly
violating their rules. Let them know why you are choosing to go
somewhere else.

What's been made quite clear from the two places I've discussed this
is that A) theft via the use of another persons lift ticket is
seemingly a large problem. B) The policy of attaching the lift ticket
to a seemingly permanent location is apparently not resolving the
problem.

I would guess that it does reduce the amount of lift ticket fraud, but
that it is not perfect because there will always be some who will go to
great lengths to be able to share their lift tickets. I would not be
surprised to hear that some people would go so far as to share their
ski outfits, switching jackets, pants, boots, or whatever it takes.

Are you suggesting that if you come upon a parking meter that has
extra time on it that you drive to a new location to find another
meter with no remaining time on it? grin Why should the mountain be
the only one to benefit in our mutual relationship? I paid for X hours
of skiing. X hours of skiing would be used

Well, that is a fine rationalization, but those are not the terms on
which most ski areas offer their services. I do remember reading that
there were some ski areas that were offering lift tickets where they
charged either by the number of chair rides or the number of vertical
feet. I don't remember the details since I never skied at those areas,
and I don't even know if they are still doing it.

(snip)
Mt Bachelor in Or. had a lift ticket like that. I can't remember if it was
the vertical feet or number of chair lifts. The lift ticket was good until
you used it up for the season. I don't know if they still use that type of
ticket because the last two times I was there I got the whole day tickets.

As a consumer I do agree with Rich that the lift ticket should be
transferable to other family members but as a business owner I do see the
resorts point of view too. It would be like me teaching my karate class and
the mother shows up one day then the father shows up the next and then the
child. Yes I am teaching one family member at a time but it isn't fair to
me as the teacher or business owner unless the plan they enrolled in was
some sort of family plan which would cost more than a single person plan to
accommodate for more people. The resort does know and has planned that most
people do not ski all day long on a day pass and those day pass people take
certain amount of breaks during the day.

JQ
Dancing on the edge

The Real Bev wrote:


Mountain High did that a couple of years ago. You had to hold the thing
really close to the sensor and it took several passes. Worked about as well
as the rest of their operation.

They need a better system then. I keep mine in my pocket, ski up to the
gate, and it opens. I hear this complaint a lot, but don't get it. Some
people can't figure ATMs either. Simply put the pass in a pocket on the
side of your body that has the sensor, and ski through the gate slowly.
The only time I'm had a problem is when I had two passes in my pocket.
I never even pull it out of my pocket. If it's really that hard, put the
pass in the top of your glove.

The advantages far outweigh the luddites that can't figure it out. You
can have ten ride tickets, custom season passes, exchange tickets, etc.
Either way, even if you *do* have to hold it really close, how is that
different than having to have it visible and scanned by the lift ops?

-klaus

Walt wrote:
klaus wrote:

As long as you don't mind the indignity of humping the turnstile every
time you want to get on to the lift.

Do you guys wear lead clothes or something?

-klaus

klaus wrote:
Walt wrote:

klaus wrote:


As long as you don't mind the indignity of humping the turnstile every
time you want to get on to the lift.


Do you guys wear lead clothes or something?

No, they're just pleased to see you

klaus wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:

Mountain High did that a couple of years ago. You had to hold the thing
really close to the sensor and it took several passes. Worked about as well
as the rest of their operation.

They need a better system then. I keep mine in my pocket, ski up to the
gate, and it opens. I hear this complaint a lot, but don't get it. Some
people can't figure ATMs either.

I'll assume you're talking about someone else here...

Simply put the pass in a pocket on the
side of your body that has the sensor, and ski through the gate slowly.
The only time I'm had a problem is when I had two passes in my pocket.
I never even pull it out of my pocket. If it's really that hard, put the
pass in the top of your glove.

The advantages far outweigh the luddites that can't figure it out. You
can have ten ride tickets, custom season passes, exchange tickets, etc.
Either way, even if you *do* have to hold it really close, how is that
different than having to have it visible and scanned by the lift ops?

Not at all. I ended up wrapping it around the outside of my sleeve at
sensor-height so I could just bash my arm into the sensor several times. Once
it took there was a 3-second delay before you heard the click which meant you
could push through the rotating knives, so a complete stop of at least 10
seconds was required. The lines made a 45-degree bend to the left right there
so a little hopping was necessary as you passed through the knives. If
somebody had tried to design it for maximum inconvenience they did an
award-winning job.

--
Cheers, Bev (Registered Linux User 85683)
================================================== ===================
Some people have told me they don't think a fat penguin really
embodies the grace of Linux, which just tells me they have never seen
an angry penguin charging at them in excess of 100mph. They'd be a
lot more careful about what they say if they had. -- Linus Torvalds

The Real Bev wrote:


Not at all. I ended up wrapping it around the outside of my sleeve at
sensor-height so I could just bash my arm into the sensor several times. Once
it took there was a 3-second delay before you heard the click which meant you
could push through the rotating knives, so a complete stop of at least 10
seconds was required.

Three whole seconds, huh? Or ten? Wow. That's just unacceptable. Are you
serious? Ten seconds? Ten seconds? Jeez.. you must get some major
vertical in if ten seconds is too long. It takes me that long to catch
my breath or wait for partners.

-klaus

klaus wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:

Not at all. I ended up wrapping it around the outside of my sleeve at
sensor-height so I could just bash my arm into the sensor several times. Once
it took there was a 3-second delay before you heard the click which meant you
could push through the rotating knives, so a complete stop of at least 10
seconds was required.

Three whole seconds, huh? Or ten? Wow. That's just unacceptable. Are you
serious? Ten seconds? Ten seconds? Jeez.. you must get some major
vertical in if ten seconds is too long. It takes me that long to catch
my breath or wait for partners.

You jest.

Optimum system is you come screeching down scrubbing off speed, the thing
senses your pass and ignores you; you get on the next chair without having to
stop before you get to the LOAD HERE sign. I guess if you didn't have a pass a
net might pop up out of the ground or something. Maybe a paintball gun.

It sucked for the two years I skied there before I decided it was dumb to
waste a lot of time and money on sub-substandard skiing when only a slight
increase in both resulted in substandard skiing. If you're going to design an
automated system, it should at the very least be better for the users than the
manual system.

--
Cheers,
Bev
==================================================
Is the Pope Catholic? Do bears **** in the woods?
Does Rose Kennedy have a black dress?

The Real Bev wrote:
You jest.

No.


Optimum system is you come screeching down scrubbing off speed, the thing
senses your pass and ignores you; you get on the next chair without having to
stop before you get to the LOAD HERE sign. I guess if you didn't have a pass a
net might pop up out of the ground or something. Maybe a paintball gun.

So you don't have lines? If you got through the gate in one second, you
would simply increase the time you spend waiting for a chair by the same
amount. Unless you have empty chairs going up, it doesn't matter. Many
resorts have fifteen *minute* lines, not 10 seconds. If there are empty
chairs, I actually value a few seconds rest. If you only have to wait
ten seconds in SoCal, count yourself blessed. How do you deal with
traffic. Do you take roads that only have policeman directing traffic as
opposed to stop lights? You're being silly.

It sucked for the two years I skied there before I decided it was dumb to
waste a lot of time and money on sub-substandard skiing when only a slight
increase in both resulted in substandard skiing. If you're going to design an
automated system, it should at the very least be better for the users than the
manual system.

Isn't it? Takes the lifties that long to check the date on regular
passes or to scan them manually. And you still just queue up in line. Do
a google search on queuing theory. Getting into the line is not the
limit. It's the throughput, not latency. Most lifts here have four to
six sensors. Most resorts have one liftie checking tickets. You do the
math. One red light on the way is a bigger waste of time than all those
ten seconds all day long. I don't see the problem with 10 seconds.
Sorry. I think its a bull**** argument. It makes *no* difference whether
you wait ten seconds to have your pass read by a machine or 9 seconds by
a liftie, especially when you have four queues going in parallel as
opposed to one, and the electronic pass allows you to skip the ticket
office, have flexible passes, and not have to worry about what color zip
tie to use, at least for me. That saves much more than one or two
seconds by 20 runs ( as if anyone skis twenty runs). Geez, I spend way
more than that just looking at the snow and deciding my run.

-klaus

klaus wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:
You jest.

No.

Optimum system is you come screeching down scrubbing off speed, the thing
senses your pass and ignores you; you get on the next chair without having to
stop before you get to the LOAD HERE sign. I guess if you didn't have a pass a
net might pop up out of the ground or something. Maybe a paintball gun.

So you don't have lines?

If you go during the week and get there early enough to be one of the first
up, correct. There are NO lines at first, so there's no particular reason to
stop.

If you got through the gate in one second, you
would simply increase the time you spend waiting for a chair by the same
amount. Unless you have empty chairs going up, it doesn't matter.

Yes, first thing in the morning at least half the chairs go up empty,
generally more.

Many
resorts have fifteen *minute* lines, not 10 seconds.

By then I'm in my truck heading home.

If there are empty
chairs, I actually value a few seconds rest. If you only have to wait
ten seconds in SoCal, count yourself blessed.

I can't rest unless I'm sitting down. Standing with bent knees is rapidly
exhausting. The ride up is six minutes, and the run down is less if I exclude
my attempts at rest on the way down. Not enough benches, goddammit.

How do you deal with
traffic. Do you take roads that only have policeman directing traffic as
opposed to stop lights? You're being silly.

Traffic is different. Unlike driving 40 years ago, the whole process is
something to be endured. When skiing is like that it means I've stayed one
run too long and will be lucky not to injure myself or anyone else on my way
to the car.

It sucked for the two years I skied there before I decided it was dumb to
waste a lot of time and money on sub-substandard skiing when only a slight
increase in both resulted in substandard skiing. If you're going to design an
automated system, it should at the very least be better for the users than the
manual system.

Isn't it? Takes the lifties that long to check the date on regular
passes or to scan them manually.

The smarter ones recognize me after a few runs -- there aren't that many
grown-up (don't even think of using any other word) women skiing fast and
alone on old skis. Then they just wave and say "Come on out."

And you still just queue up in line. Do a google search on queuing theory.

I have a resident expert. While theory is generally good, sometimes
observation is sufficient.

Getting into the line is not the
limit. It's the throughput, not latency. Most lifts here have four to
six sensors. Most resorts have one liftie checking tickets. You do the
math.

The liftie can see the color of the passes or even remember that she's already
passed some people. At some point I think they just stop caring. The liftie
part is easy and takes no time.


What's annoying is having to stop, trudge along in a line to get through the
rotating knives, turn a sharp corner without bashing the people around you
with your skis or poles, trudge along (frequently a bit uphill for some
ungodly reason) to the next sharp turn (repeating avoidance manoeuvres) then
insert yourself into a group of 3 boarders (maybe 6 lines, but who's
counting?) who are afraid to let you in even though they collectively outweigh
you by 200 pounds or allow you to join and then hang back at the last minute,
allowing you to ride in solitary splendor to the top.

One red light on the way is a bigger waste of time than all those
ten seconds all day long. I don't see the problem with 10 seconds.
Sorry. I think its a bull**** argument. It makes *no* difference whether
you wait ten seconds to have your pass read by a machine or 9 seconds by
a liftie, especially when you have four queues going in parallel as
opposed to one, and the electronic pass allows you to skip the ticket
office, have flexible passes, and not have to worry about what color zip
tie to use, at least for me. That saves much more than one or two
seconds by 20 runs ( as if anyone skis twenty runs). Geez, I spend way
more than that just looking at the snow and deciding my run.

You must remember that the areas I ski are under 300 acres each. About half
is useless because it's set up to attract boarders and the rest is a nice
uniform two feet of man-made groom. There's not much choice involved, I might
as well just flip a coin because it's pretty much all the same anyway except
for the one steep run with no runout that I'm no longer strong enough to do
because a failure to stop soon enough (the stopping muscles give out) will put
me into a tree. BTDT.

It's not only men who have to know their limitations. Stopping and starting
use a lot more energy than going. Even physicists know that.

What mostly annoys me is things that get in my way because they're designed
stupidly. If I lived in NO I'd be really ****ed that the damn levees broke
because the people we pay to take care of things like that were asleep at the
switch.

Where I live it ****es me off that freeway on-ramps with metering signals
default to red; even when there's nobody in line you have to stop at the
signal and wait for it to turn green. Over days, weeks, months and years that
wastes a tremendous amount of time, gas, brake lining, etc. If it defaulted
to green and then turned red for n seconds after the sensor informed it that a
car had passed by everybody would be a lot better off. There is NO downside.

People don't get grouchy because they get older, they get grouchy because
they've seen so much **** like that that they're no longer willing to cut any
slack at all for idiots because they've already used up their supply.

Just wait. You'll find out.

--
Cheers, Bev
============================================
"People are too stupid to realize they are."
--JoHn DoH KeLm