Breckenridge death

Walt wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

Mary Malmros wrote:

This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical,
but...I think I would have left some of those details out of your
post, on the off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and
read it (like, maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next
time...

Yeah, you're a little over critical, BUT you're right. The details
written were the kind of thing that goes into an eye-witness report
for the area's risk management file.


Where it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again. I
strongly disagree with this approach.

Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it
out in the open.



I totally agree with you. Nothing wrong with what you posted. Accident
descriptions are something else, but this is viewing a patient being
actively worked on and evacuated.

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 16:38:14 GMT, Jon C
wrote:

Walt wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

Mary Malmros wrote:

This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical,
but...I think I would have left some of those details out of your
post, on the off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and
read it (like, maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next
time...

Yeah, you're a little over critical, BUT you're right. The details
written were the kind of thing that goes into an eye-witness report
for the area's risk management file.


Where it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again. I
strongly disagree with this approach.

Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it
out in the open.



I totally agree with you. Nothing wrong with what you posted. Accident
descriptions are something else, but this is viewing a patient being
actively worked on and evacuated.
I saw something similar on Sunday. After finishing my weekly
hockey game, we saw the emerge team wheeling a heart attack
victim off the other pad.




"I think that gay marriage should be between a man and a woman." -Arnold Schwarzenegger, during the California recall campaign

"Walt" wrote in message news:WdzCd.754

written were the kind of thing that goes into an eye-witness report for
the area's risk management file.

Where it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again. I strongly
disagree with this approach.

Not necesarily. A death would normally result in some sort of investigation
by some outside organization or other. These details would be made
available. If nothing else, I think the family of the patient would insist
on this. At the very least some form of debriefing would take place among
the emerg care workers involved.
IME details of this sort of thing have not been hard to come by. While I
disagree with any type of active concealing of information, should the
resort be making everything as public as possible? Reading the news story on
this one I got a fairly clear picture of what happened. What more should
have been shared?



Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it out
in the open.


To what end? Discouraging people from trying the sport? Its a pretty rare
skier who doesn't, on some level, understand there is a risk involved. I
think that risk is quite well managed by most resorts I ski. Whether the
motivation is for the protection of their guests or to cover their own
backside is irrelevent, it still results in a safer experience for
everybody.

Mary Malmros wrote:
This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical, but...I
think I would have left some of those details out of your post, on the
off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and read it (like,
maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next time...

Maybe, maybe not -
Most of what was in the report indicates that the patrol was doing
everything possible for the fellow. A high level of response IMO. Might
be comforting to relations?

Some comments on the report - some mention was made of response
time/evac time. IMObservation generally a patrol response arrives at a
ski accident much faster than an emergency vehicle arrives at a road
accident; the first aid and life support capabilities of a well trained
patrol are generally very high (minus truck carried equipment, of
course); and sled evac is very quick - just a few minutes to first aid
where de-fib and other equipment is available. All in all, I suspect for
most accidents and heart/stroke type problems you'd get a better
response time at a major ski mountain (if you're on-piste) than in the
general world. Of course hitting a tree is sort of like walking out into
traffic without looking - you're likely coming out second best.

Norm wrote:
"Walt" wrote in message news:WdzCd.754


written were the kind of thing that goes into an eye-witness report for
the area's risk management file.

Where it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again. I strongly
disagree with this approach.


Not necesarily. A death would normally result in some sort of investigation
by some outside organization or other. These details would be made
available. If nothing else, I think the family of the patient would insist
on this. At the very least some form of debriefing would take place among
the emerg care workers involved.
IME details of this sort of thing have not been hard to come by. While I
disagree with any type of active concealing of information, should the
resort be making everything as public as possible? Reading the news story on
this one I got a fairly clear picture of what happened. What more should
have been shared?



Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it out
in the open.



To what end? Discouraging people from trying the sport? Its a pretty rare
skier who doesn't, on some level, understand there is a risk involved. I
think that risk is quite well managed by most resorts I ski. Whether the
motivation is for the protection of their guests or to cover their own
backside is irrelevent, it still results in a safer experience for
everybody.


I agree with this. All of the interviews we did and all that the risk
managers collected was shared with the state police who were the
investigators of the Killington accident two years ago.

Paul Christofanelli wrote:
Walt wrote:

Yep. Not enough data. But the probability that exactly 3 snowboarders
and 1 skier are hurt assuming a random pick is 25%.

yep.

The probability
that more snowboarders than skiers would be hurt in that group of 4
assuming 'random' accidents is 31.25%.

yep.


What does all this mean ... not really anything.

yep. But we can assert this at the 95% confidence level.

Anecdotally, it does seem that more snowboarders
are hurt in general but it could have something to do with who's mostly
in the 'trauma parks'.

So far this season Colorado has seen four deaths on the slopes. Two
were boarders who hit trees, one was a boarder who had a seizure, and
the fourth was a ski racer who collided with a snowmobile.
(http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...608415,00.html)

--
//-Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

Norm wrote:
"Walt" wrote in message news:WdzCd.754


A death would normally result in some sort of investigation
by some outside organization or other. These details would be made
available. If nothing else, I think the family of the patient would insist
on this. At the very least some form of debriefing would take place among
the emerg care workers involved.
IME details of this sort of thing have not been hard to come by.

Details about a specific fatal accident are usually in the paper.

Comprehensive statistics about injuries are not available. At least I
can't find anything. Maybe you could tell me, say, the number of
tib-fib fractures in the 2003-2004 season in the US? This data is
collected by each individual resort, but the data is kept private (secret).

While I
disagree with any type of active concealing of information, should the
resort be making everything as public as possible?

Yes. Within the bounds of individual privacy. Why the sececry? Are
they drafting an energy policy?



Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it out
in the open.

To what end? Discouraging people from trying the sport?

Providing information so that people can make an informed decision. Is
that too much to ask?


Its a pretty rare
skier who doesn't, on some level, understand there is a risk involved.

And that assessment of risk is probably erroneous. Is it more or less
dangerous than driving on the highway? I doubt most people know the answer.

I think that risk is quite well managed by most resorts I ski.

I have no idea what this sentence means.


--
//-Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

Walt wrote:

So far this season Colorado has seen four deaths on the slopes. Two
were boarders who hit trees, one was a boarder who had a seizure, and
the fourth was a ski racer who collided with a snowmobile.

Um, make that six.
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...633317,00.html

My condolences to the families and friends left behind.

--
//-Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

Mary Malmros wrote:

This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical, but...I
think I would have left some of those details out of your post, on the
off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and read it (like,
maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next time...

I'm a mom. I think I would seek out every scrap of information on my
dead kid that I could find. Not yelling, I just think you're wrong.

--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== ====
I am grateful that I am not as judgmental as all those
censorious, self-righteous people around me.

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 10:36:16 -0500, VtSkier
wrote:


http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pb...501040405/1002


As long as we're on the tragedy parade:
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews...0_20050104.htm
Mt. Holly isn't big, but it doesn't take much vert to develop lethal
velocity... Tragic.

bw