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Keepin' it real...



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 9th 06, 01:53 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
56fish
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default Keepin' it real...

Regarding brand performance, loyalty, durability, etc......oozing out
of the Burton Vapor thread:

Started selling/renting boards in 1990. Our shop was core not,
corporate. Hated the big guys, esp Burton. Have stocked, sold and,
seen go bye-bye at least 40 brands of boards, boots & bindings the past
16 years. Most because they couldn't sell enough product to stay in
business; some because their product was crap; and, a handful were
absorbed by the bigger guys (primarily K2).

Our shop owner will tell anyone that I am the worst "salesman" on the
floor. I won't sell a 6'2"-200lb-size-12-shoe dude a 154 Custom to
make the sale. Even if he's in love w/ it. It's a disservice that
he'll discover all too quickly on the hill. This sales "technique" has
driven our shop growth in a double-digit manner for 16 straight
seasons. It's also the same way Burton has grown to dominate the world
of snowboarding. The develop products that work. Then test the ****
out of them before bringing them to market.

Obviously, if you sell more product than all the others combined you
are going to have more failures. Not just because of simple math but,
also, due to the fact that the users are pushing the envelope. Go to
any major competitive event. You'll see more Burton bindings on
non-Burton boards than said board manufacturer's own models. Why?
Because they work.

Another group member suggested that my motivation favoring Burton
products may be financial. A little bit true. However, providing
riders, both current and future, with products that make them happy is
my true goal. And, I'm absolutely anal about being wrong.

Ads
  #2  
Old December 11th 06, 02:28 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
Christopher Cox
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Posts: 20
Default Keepin' it real...

56fish wrote:

"You'll see more Burton bindings on
non-Burton boards than said board manufacturer's own models. Why?
Because they work."

IMHO you were very objective till you stated this. I see allot of new,
untried, Burton technology on the slopes. There is no doubt Burton makes
some good product, but in general, it is my opinion it is over rated,
much like DC and Element equipment in the skate boarding world.

It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes
from a country whose government I disagree with. I have yet to see
bindings from them fail. My son loves the Prospect as a general all
round, do everything, board. If you have owned both the Burton Driver
and Salomon Malamute boots, you can smell the difference after you get
into the boarding season... :-) Boy, I had no idea what a difference
those Salomon AgION silver-based anti-microbial linings would would
make. The drivers stunk, literally. I am sure teenagers wearing them had
something to do with this.

Just as an FYI, because I said I would do so in an earlier post, the
Nitro Raidens lost a toe strap on the first day of use. Nice bindings
otherwise, yet we would had lost half a day of riding if it was the only
setup we had brought. Had them mounted up on the Donek Phoenix.

Best Regards,

Chris
  #3  
Old December 12th 06, 11:31 AM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
Switters
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Posts: 151
Default Keepin' it real...

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:28:29 GMT, Christopher Cox
allegedly wrote:

It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes
from a country whose government I disagree with. I have yet to see
bindings from them fail.


I guess that depends on how many bindings from them that you've seen.

My SP5s failed after less than 2 years, and then Salomon couldn't/wouldn't
do anything about them.

http://www.vpas.org.uk/bindings2.html

Anything can break. What I like is a balance between having a good
product that's generally reliable and a good warranty program that's there
when things go wrong. For me, Salomon failed the latter test.

- Dave.

--
The only powder to get high on, falls from the sky.
http://www.vpas.org.uk/ - Snowboarding the worlds pow pow.
Donek Sasquatch 162, Prior Pow 181, Burton Canyon 162

The Snowboard FAQ lives here - http://www.vpas.fsnet.co.uk/rssFAQ/
  #4  
Old December 12th 06, 12:32 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
Christopher Cox
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Posts: 20
Default Keepin' it real...

Switters wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:28:29 GMT, Christopher Cox
allegedly wrote:


It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes
from a country whose government I disagree with. I have yet to see
bindings from them fail.



I guess that depends on how many bindings from them that you've seen.

My SP5s failed after less than 2 years, and then Salomon couldn't/wouldn't
do anything about them.

http://www.vpas.org.uk/bindings2.html

Anything can break. What I like is a balance between having a good
product that's generally reliable and a good warranty program that's there
when things go wrong. For me, Salomon failed the latter test.

- Dave.


Gads, well, as stated before, Burton has a great warranty department!
And maybe that is the determining factor. I know I am staying away from
TechNine after they changed their service policy.

Still, knowing about ladder breakage with the Missions, I would keep a
replacement set handy.

Chris
  #5  
Old December 12th 06, 10:24 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
Champ
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Posts: 144
Default Keepin' it real...

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:28:29 GMT, Christopher Cox
wrote:

It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes
from a country whose government I disagree with.


Wha? Firstly, that seems a pretty bizarre way to chose kit - based on
the country where the manufacturer is based. I mean, the
manufacturer's staff may disagree with their government just as much
as you do.

And secondly, I can't recall the French government doing much that has
invited international criticism for quite a while. Not since the
Rainbow Warrior, at least
--
Champ
  #6  
Old December 12th 06, 11:02 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
Neil Gendzwill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 95
Default Keepin' it real...

Champ wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:28:29 GMT, Christopher Cox
wrote:


It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes


from a country whose government I disagree with.


Wha? Firstly, that seems a pretty bizarre way to chose kit - based on
the country where the manufacturer is based. I mean, the
manufacturer's staff may disagree with their government just as much
as you do.

And secondly, I can't recall the French government doing much that has
invited international criticism for quite a while. Not since the
Rainbow Warrior, at least


A lot of Americans are in a snit over lack of French support for the
Iraq war.

Neil
  #7  
Old December 13th 06, 04:32 AM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default Keepin' it real...


Neil Gendzwill wrote:
Champ wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:28:29 GMT, Christopher Cox
wrote:


It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes


from a country whose government I disagree with.


Wha? Firstly, that seems a pretty bizarre way to chose kit - based on
the country where the manufacturer is based. I mean, the
manufacturer's staff may disagree with their government just as much
as you do.

And secondly, I can't recall the French government doing much that has
invited international criticism for quite a while. Not since the
Rainbow Warrior, at least


A lot of Americans are in a snit over lack of French support for the
Iraq war.


Not anymore, especially since most Americans don't support the Iraq war
now either. At the time of the invasion there was a lot of right-wing
nuttiness about France's cowardice and the urgency of renaming french
fries "freedom fries," but fortunately that inanity is in the past for
all but a tiny fringe.

Joe Ramirez

  #8  
Old December 13th 06, 12:00 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
Champ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Keepin' it real...

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:02:28 -0600, Neil Gendzwill
wrote:

Champ wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:28:29 GMT, Christopher Cox
wrote:


It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes


from a country whose government I disagree with.


Wha? Firstly, that seems a pretty bizarre way to chose kit - based on
the country where the manufacturer is based. I mean, the
manufacturer's staff may disagree with their government just as much
as you do.

And secondly, I can't recall the French government doing much that has
invited international criticism for quite a while. Not since the
Rainbow Warrior, at least


A lot of Americans are in a snit over lack of French support for the
Iraq war.


Yeah, I knew that, but I didn't mention explicitly cos I didn't want
to send this thread down that route. Probably too late for that now,
tho!
--
Champ
  #9  
Old December 13th 06, 12:12 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
Christopher Cox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Keepin' it real...

wrote:
Neil Gendzwill wrote:

Champ wrote:

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:28:29 GMT, Christopher Cox
wrote:



It is also my opinion Salomon is underrated, even if the product comes

from a country whose government I disagree with.

Wha? Firstly, that seems a pretty bizarre way to chose kit - based on
the country where the manufacturer is based. I mean, the
manufacturer's staff may disagree with their government just as much
as you do.

And secondly, I can't recall the French government doing much that has
invited international criticism for quite a while. Not since the
Rainbow Warrior, at least


A lot of Americans are in a snit over lack of French support for the
Iraq war.



Not anymore, especially since most Americans don't support the Iraq war
now either. At the time of the invasion there was a lot of right-wing
nuttiness about France's cowardice and the urgency of renaming french
fries "freedom fries," but fortunately that inanity is in the past for
all but a tiny fringe.

Joe Ramirez


Well, I disagree with you on many counts, but this is hardly the forum
for the discussion. I certainly do not want the flame wars that permeate
other newsgroups to render this one useless as well.

Chris
  #10  
Old December 13th 06, 12:14 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
Switters
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 151
Default Keepin' it real...

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:32:58 GMT, Christopher Cox
allegedly wrote:

Still, knowing about ladder breakage with the Missions, I would keep a
replacement set handy.


Could you elaborate please? I've not heard about that. So far this
season though, I won't be too far away from a Burton retailer.

- Dave.

--
The only powder to get high on, falls from the sky.
http://www.vpas.org.uk/ - Snowboarding the worlds pow pow.
Donek Sasquatch 162, Prior Pow 181, Burton Canyon 162

The Snowboard FAQ lives here - http://www.vpas.fsnet.co.uk/rssFAQ/
 




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