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Sled dog training...



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 1st 03, 06:35 PM
Jeff Potter
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Default Sled dog training...

In a book I read on ski joring (I think it was) they said that to train
your dogs for races you should run them every day at the expected race
pace and maybe even for the expected distance, if in reason. (I recall
skijor events often being about 10km.) Why don't dogs need periodizing?

I saw some neat photos of world-cup style skijorers and their
greyhound-like race dogs. Amazing. Nordic sports are the most amazing
thing: there are elite racing circles for EVERY kind of it. (Like the
pro spark racing.) Oh well, I suppose ALL hobbies are this way: you can
find lifestylists doing all of them at elite levels. Perhaps it's just
part of what they call the professionalization of leisu if you get
'into' something the pricey carbon equipment is just waiting for you, no
matter what the 'something' is! : )

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself culture...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies...
...rare books on ski, bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller
about smalltown smuggling ... more radical novels coming up!
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  #2  
Old December 1st 03, 06:39 PM
Melinda Shore
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Default Sled dog training...

In article ,
Jeff Potter wrote:
In a book I read on ski joring (I think it was) they said that to train
your dogs for races you should run them every day at the expected race
pace and maybe even for the expected distance, if in reason. (I recall
skijor events often being about 10km.) Why don't dogs need periodizing?


They do - there's not a lot of consensus about training
approaches, plus breed of dog and race distances factor into
it. I don't know anybody these days who thinks it's a good
idea to run your dog at race speed for full distances every
day. I'm guessing you're referring to "Skijoring With Your
Dog." A good place to hook up with serious skijorers is the
message boards at http://www.sleddogcentral.com .

Some dogs are sprinters (hound-type dogs) and some dogs are
good over longer distances (Siberian and Alaskan Huskies).
Most skijor races, at least in the lower 48, are 3-5 miles.
There are some longer races starting to take place in the
northeast US, with the Green Mountain Distance Mushers in
Vermont leading the way at 15 miles. I believe there are
some very long (150 mile) races in Alaska.

Most skijorers also sled, at least here in the northeast.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Bad taste is better than no taste -- Arnold Bennett
  #3  
Old December 1st 03, 08:09 PM
Jeff Potter
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Default Sled dog training...

Thanks. I'm glad we have people searching for skijor discussions! : ) I
just now re-read the training section in that skijor book and it does
indeed sensibly include info on gradually building up endurance, speed,
etc, over the year. So there is some periodizing. But in the beginning of
her training section she had the interesting remark that dogs tend to have
a set speed they go as if in "cruise control" for races from 4-12-miles, as
she used as examples. I guess that's all fairly short distance. I suppose
that's enough like how we train after all. Heck, back when I ski raced I
noticed that my per km pace was similar from 10-50km, so maybe that's all
she means. It did seem like the dogs generally go at a similar effort level
and it was up to the musher to control the trail difficulty to give the
dogs clues that one day is supposed to be easier than another. Also they
should mostly vary distances to control training impact because the dog's
pace will tend to be similar no matter what. But she did caution against
going too fast too often, so I suppose one can egg on a dog to go faster
than usual. I just got the sense that they trained at race pace most of the
time, mostly varying distance to control the overall effort involved. And,
as you imply, this is also just an intro book. Different events and breeds
must require special handling.

This was all interesting to me in light of recent discussion in Masters
ski/bike race training which suggests that considering our short available
time to train that we do it at a harder (race pace?) level for the most
part.

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself culture...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies...
...rare books on ski, bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller
about smalltown smuggling ... more radical novels coming up!
...original downloadable music ... and articles galore!
plus national "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!


  #4  
Old December 2nd 03, 12:38 AM
Marsh Jones
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Default Sled dog training...

Jeff Potter wrote:
In a book I read on ski joring (I think it was) they said that to train
your dogs for races you should run them every day at the expected race
pace and maybe even for the expected distance, if in reason. (I recall
skijor events often being about 10km.) Why don't dogs need periodizing?

I saw some neat photos of world-cup style skijorers and their
greyhound-like race dogs. Amazing. Nordic sports are the most amazing
thing: there are elite racing circles for EVERY kind of it. (Like the
pro spark racing.) Oh well, I suppose ALL hobbies are this way: you can
find lifestylists doing all of them at elite levels. Perhaps it's just
part of what they call the professionalization of leisu if you get
'into' something the pricey carbon equipment is just waiting for you, no
matter what the 'something' is! : )

Different dogs, different training styles, I think. My Lab gets very,
very bored if we ski 4 miles - unless there is another team in front.
My friend John Thompson's Alaskan/Greyhound mix dogs are barely
breathing hard at that point. Hardly reason to take their sweaters off.

John skijors at an elite level, usually going to Worlds. One of my
favorite stories of his is about the top French team (driving a German
Shorthaired Pointer). Most sled type dogs go sorta ballistically nuts
when you put the harness and tugline on them and usually have to be held
by a handler. This dog apparently got in the chute, and then on command
from its master, just stood there more or less at point, waiting to be
released and then on 'go' was off like a rocket.

Final anecdote - German Shorthairs (GSPs) are a popular dog in Europe
due to their trainability, strong desire, and very high power to weight
ratio. Many EU skijor events use a 'pulk' sled between the dog and
skier, with the sled weight being [I think] 1/2 the dog's weight. Thus
the heavier dogs have a heavier sled to pull. Now if we could only get
skiers handicapped based on weight.

Marsh Jones
--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself culture...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies...
...rare books on ski, bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller
about smalltown smuggling ... more radical novels coming up!
...original downloadable music ... and articles galore!
plus national "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!



  #5  
Old December 2nd 03, 01:22 AM
Jeff Potter
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Default Sled dog training...

Yeah, who cares about Hardy reels, now we're talkin DAWGS! : )

And a sensible weight handicap, too! Hear-hear for requiring everyone to
carry a pack that brings their weight up to, uh...uh...

But back to dawgs, yeah I bet them GSPs do the rocket thing. And love to show
off their ability to whoa. I have a GWP (you figure it out) and she just
LOVES to learn. She knows 30 commands and is still after me for learning
more. But I'm done. Poor thing, now she's idle, having only a conversational
English. These dogs don't just fetch, they want to fetch 3 different things
thrown 3 different places in different orders. Both GSP and GWP are members
of the Versatile class of dog breeds (which include about a dozen breeds)
meaning multi-function, generally: utility, guard, family, fur and feather.
The problem with getting one is that they HAVE to do multifunctions every day
or else they're bored and this is truly bad and sad. I wish I could rise to
the level of my dog. My GWP loves to pull and knows sled-dog trail commands,
but she's not very fast. GWPs are rubbery clowns (lion-like, really) compared
to GSPs. She classic skis with me fine, though, but can't run with me long.
GSPs are wiry and tapered, deepchested-narrowwaisted: made for speed and
everything else. Interesting to see a GSP and GWP tussle: GSP uses speed and
GWP uses wrestling skills.

Skijoring is pretty darn cool.

I'd have Daisy pull a pulk (sled) with Henry in it and me attached behind it,
so she'd pull us both sometimes. It's a nice way to travel while pulling a
kid without working so much.

It would all be something with a fast GSP.

Is WC skijoring faster than regular skiing? That would be a way to make
flatland skiing around here into more fun. --Maybe have TWO race GSPs pull
you around at 20mph.

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself culture...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies...
...rare books on ski, bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller
about smalltown smuggling ... more radical novels coming up!
...original downloadable music ... and articles galore!
plus national "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!


  #6  
Old December 2nd 03, 02:44 AM
Scott Elliot
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Posts: n/a
Default Sled dog training...

I would think that some type of intervals or periodization would help
training dogs. So would holding them back a few days before a race to
really make them anxious to go.

You have to remember that a dog's physiology is much different from a
human's though. I believe their blood is quite thick with a red blood cell
count that would never pass our blood doping tests. To compensate for this
their hearts are much more massive compared to their body weight than ours.
This gives them great endurance and speed because of the ability of their
circulation system to deliver oxygen and fuel to the muscles. As a result
even the most doped up human has no chance to compete against the average
dog.

Scott Elliot
http://www3.telus.net/selliot/

"Jeff Potter" wrote in message
.. .
In a book I read on ski joring (I think it was) they said that to train
your dogs for races you should run them every day at the expected race
pace and maybe even for the expected distance, if in reason. (I recall
skijor events often being about 10km.) Why don't dogs need periodizing?

I saw some neat photos of world-cup style skijorers and their
greyhound-like race dogs. Amazing. Nordic sports are the most amazing
thing: there are elite racing circles for EVERY kind of it. (Like the
pro spark racing.) Oh well, I suppose ALL hobbies are this way: you can
find lifestylists doing all of them at elite levels. Perhaps it's just
part of what they call the professionalization of leisu if you get
'into' something the pricey carbon equipment is just waiting for you, no
matter what the 'something' is! : )

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself culture...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies...
...rare books on ski, bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller
about smalltown smuggling ... more radical novels coming up!
...original downloadable music ... and articles galore!
plus national "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!




  #7  
Old December 2nd 03, 03:09 AM
Melinda Shore
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Posts: n/a
Default Sled dog training...

In article ,
Jeff Potter wrote:
Is WC skijoring faster than regular skiing?


It depends on the distance. A very good time over 4 miles
is about 12 minutes (20 mph), while on a 15-mile course the
dogs are likely to average about 12 mph. The main thing is
that you've got a lot less control over your own speed - for
example, dogs naturally speed up going down hills and they
really don't care if there's a turn at the bottom.
Consequently command training is a much bigger issue for
skijoring than it is for mushing (a lot of people don't
teach their sleddogs "whoa", for example).
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Bad taste is better than no taste -- Arnold Bennett
  #8  
Old December 2nd 03, 10:43 PM
Terje Henriksen
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Posts: n/a
Default Sled dog training...


"Melinda Shore" skrev i melding
...
In article ,
Jeff Potter wrote:
In a book I read on ski joring (I think it was) they said that to train
your dogs for races you should run them every day at the expected race
pace and maybe even for the expected distance, if in reason. (I recall
skijor events often being about 10km.) Why don't dogs need periodizing?


They do - there's not a lot of consensus about training
approaches, plus breed of dog and race distances factor into
it. I don't know anybody these days who thinks it's a good
idea to run your dog at race speed for full distances every
day. I'm guessing you're referring to "Skijoring With Your
Dog." A good place to hook up with serious skijorers is the
message boards at http://www.sleddogcentral.com .


"Skijoring" looks very much like the Norwegian word "Skikjøring" -
Skidriving (?). Are there any connection between these words?


--
Terje Henriksen
Kirkenes


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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  #9  
Old December 2nd 03, 11:08 PM
Jeff Potter
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Posts: n/a
Default Sled dog training...

Melinda Shore wrote:

A very good time over 4 miles
is about 12 minutes (20 mph),


That's the ticket! : )

As regards the need for commands: sounds like fun. Smart dogs just love
to learn commands and try to help.

I wonder how the intensity factor compares with guiding a blind human ski
racer---talk about commands!

Well, I like skijoring with my dog. It's cool how she takes the right
turns and does the right thing based on those commands. She's very proud
of it all as well, yet cool---she doesn't like sentimentality in the
middle of a workout---quite dignified. Interesting how engaged they get.
When hunting she's just in a different gear than when in the yard: kind
of avoids eye contact, too busy for nonsense.

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself culture...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies...
...rare books on ski, bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller
about smalltown smuggling ... more radical novels coming up!
...original downloadable music ... and articles galore!
plus national "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!


  #10  
Old December 2nd 03, 11:14 PM
Melinda Shore
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Posts: n/a
Default Sled dog training...

In article ,
Terje Henriksen wrote:
"Skijoring" looks very much like the Norwegian word "Skikjøring" -
Skidriving (?). Are there any connection between these words?


That's the origin of the term. In North America we
pronounce a hard 'j,' which I've seen cause some
Scandinavians to flinch.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Bad taste is better than no taste -- Arnold Bennett
 




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