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  #1  
Old July 23rd 06, 05:13 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
32 degrees
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Posts: 110
Default how much training ...


Kind of OFF TOPIC, but kinda on topic... Just read ( see below ) that FLoyd Landis was training up to 50 hours/week riding in his early formative years.
Is this what it takes to get to the top?? wow, thats huge hours. I remember some elite college skiing buddies mentioning 25 hours a week and I thought that was huge. Maybe these huge hours that Floyd was doing early on are what it takes to develop yourself fully for later ??
JK



Landis won the junior national cross country race at Michigan's Traverse City when he was 18.

He graduated from Conestoga Valley High School in 1994 and moved to Irvine in California where he first raced for TWB - a tiny bike component company - and then for Chevy Trucks.

However,Landis' cycling career appeared to be over when the latter sponsorship was yanked in the spring of 1998.

He decided not to return to Farmsersville but stayed in California and did what came naturally: he rode for hours on end.

"I didn't know what else to do," he says.

Landis was still unemployed after a couple of months of 50-hour training weeks - but in terrific shape. He and Geoghegan - who'd been a Chevy Trucks teammate - decided to enter some road races. The pair took pleasure in creating chaos in the peloton; they'd attack out of the gate and stage arguments in front of other riders: "It's my turn to go."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishex...522-qqqx=1.asp

Full Floyd article.
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  #2  
Old July 23rd 06, 06:50 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
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Posts: 54
Default how much training ...


32 degrees wrote:
Kind of OFF TOPIC, but kinda on topic... Just read ( see below ) that FLoyd Landis was training up to 50 hours/week riding in his early formative years.
Is this what it takes to get to the top?? wow, thats huge hours. I remember some elite college skiing buddies mentioning 25 hours a week and I thought that was huge. Maybe these huge hours that Floyd was doing early on are what it takes to develop yourself fully for later ??
JK


I've heard it expostulated that anyone with a more or less normal
physiology has what it takes to become a top cyclist. At least in the
physical department. It's then a matter of mental strength and proper
training. Floyd himself says it's all about he who trains hardest and
most wins.

Pros ride about 35,000km a year in training. Call that an average of 3
hours per day, 6 days a week. Actually it's probably more during the
season and pre-season. 50 hours per week seems extreme but I suppose it
helped more than it hurt.

If I won lotto I'm sure I could swing 25 a week. If it were a job as
exciting as bike racing, no problem upping that. I'm sure skiing is the
same.

Joseph


Landis won the junior national cross country race at Michigan's Traverse City when he was 18.

He graduated from Conestoga Valley High School in 1994 and moved to Irvine in California where he first raced for TWB - a tiny bike component company - and then for Chevy Trucks.

However,Landis' cycling career appeared to be over when the latter sponsorship was yanked in the spring of 1998.

He decided not to return to Farmsersville but stayed in California and did what came naturally: he rode for hours on end.

"I didn't know what else to do," he says.

Landis was still unemployed after a couple of months of 50-hour training weeks - but in terrific shape. He and Geoghegan - who'd been a Chevy Trucks teammate - decided to enter some road races. The pair took pleasure in creating chaos in the peloton; they'd attack out of the gate and stage arguments in front of other riders: "It's my turn to go."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishex...522-qqqx=1.asp


  #3  
Old July 23rd 06, 07:56 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Ken Roberts
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Posts: 243
Default how much training ...

32 degrees wrote
50 hours/week . . . that's huge hours.


I rode 50 hours in 5 days just about three weeks ago on a vacation trip. At
the 48th hour I felt real fresh going up a long climb. I have no doubt I
could ride 50 hours a week for lots and lots of weeks in a row if I were
being paid enough.

I'm sure there's been a couple of weeks in my life when I skied 50 hours in
a week: Classic in the backcountry. I feel confident I could ski 50 hours of
Classic per week for months if I were being paid enough.

I've never been anywhere close to any sort of elite athlete level in any
kind of bicycling or skiing or any sport. I would not be surprised to learn
that Floyd Landis has 2 or 3 times my power output for the same time
duration.

My secret for long hours is just being very disciplined to keep going slow.
My bicycle during that week had very low gears, and I used them. Lots of
cyclists on serious multi-day long-distance tours will ride 50 hours in a
week.

The reason I could ski Classic for 50 hours in a week is that the slow
version of Classic is walking (and I did lots of it). The reason I'm not
confident to Skate for 50 hours is that I'm not sure I could keep my power
output low enough on real snow, and still be actually skating.

Did that training volume improve my performance? Yes. I did a measured
"threshold" test on an indoor training bicycle before and after. My
improvement rate was about the same as from a typical summer week with 10-14
hours of bicycling -- fewer hours but more intensity.

Ken


  #4  
Old July 23rd 06, 08:00 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Ken Roberts
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Posts: 243
Default how much training ...

Joseph wrote
I've heard it expostulated that anyone with a more
or less normal physiology has what it takes to become a top cyclist.


I'm not getting this. Perhaps it would help if it were explained what the
words
"normal physiology"
and
"what it takes"
are supposed to mean in that sentence.

Ken


  #6  
Old July 23rd 06, 08:56 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
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Posts: 54
Default how much training ...


Ken Roberts wrote:
32 degrees wrote
50 hours/week . . . that's huge hours.


I rode 50 hours in 5 days just about three weeks ago on a vacation trip. At
the 48th hour I felt real fresh going up a long climb. I have no doubt I
could ride 50 hours a week for lots and lots of weeks in a row if I were
being paid enough.


Me too, and it sure wouldn't need to be that big of a check!

I'm sure there's been a couple of weeks in my life when I skied 50 hours in
a week: Classic in the backcountry. I feel confident I could ski 50 hours of
Classic per week for months if I were being paid enough.

I've never been anywhere close to any sort of elite athlete level in any
kind of bicycling or skiing or any sport. I would not be surprised to learn
that Floyd Landis has 2 or 3 times my power output for the same time
duration.

My secret for long hours is just being very disciplined to keep going slow.
My bicycle during that week had very low gears, and I used them. Lots of
cyclists on serious multi-day long-distance tours will ride 50 hours in a
week.


All these elite level riders doing huge hours are also doing most of
them while not slow, at an easy pace. Logistics is the hardest part
about riding 50 hours. Laundry, pay the bills, etc.

The reason I could ski Classic for 50 hours in a week is that the slow
version of Classic is walking (and I did lots of it). The reason I'm not
confident to Skate for 50 hours is that I'm not sure I could keep my power
output low enough on real snow, and still be actually skating.

Did that training volume improve my performance? Yes. I did a measured
"threshold" test on an indoor training bicycle before and after. My
improvement rate was about the same as from a typical summer week with 10-14
hours of bicycling -- fewer hours but more intensity.


The article posted about Floyd gives som einsight inot how he upped his
burstable power by adding more intensity to his training. If you were
to train huge amounts you would get monster strong too!

Joseph

  #7  
Old July 23rd 06, 09:00 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
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Posts: 54
Default how much training ...


Ken Roberts wrote:
Joseph wrote
I've heard it expostulated that anyone with a more
or less normal physiology has what it takes to become a top cyclist.


I'm not getting this. Perhaps it would help if it were explained what the
words
"normal physiology"
and
"what it takes"
are supposed to mean in that sentence.

Ken


Normal physiology means no significant deformities or stange
proportions. Basically a normal person. Having what it takes means they
have the raw building blocks on which to build an elite cyclist. By
"top" I didn't mean anyone could win the Tour de France, but I meant
they could be at least good enough to be selected to ride in it.

Joseph

  #8  
Old July 23rd 06, 10:39 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
32 degrees
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Posts: 110
Default how much training ...

I might agree with you Joseph.
We had a young rider here in my town who was on our track running team as a
freshman and sophomore.
He showed no brilliance in distance running ( a sure sign of a simply normal
VO2 max ) and in fact was much slower than some of the other kids. He then
took up cycling. He's amassed hundreds, possibly thousands of hours on the
bike and is now in Belgium competing for a team there. At 20 years of age
he's dang tough. I'd not be surprised to see him in the TdFrance someday
with his work ethic, mental strength, and hard training attitude. Google
Todd Elenz and you'll see his results.

He will occasionally ski with me in the winter when he's home now and can
nearly kick my butt - I"m no slouch either - !! He has no skiing form, no
technical skills, and BAD equipment, but all the endurance and lung capacity
in the world.

How much can one increase your V02 max simply by training? Certainly we all
have a physiological limit ...

JK


wrote in message
oups.com...

32 degrees wrote:
Kind of OFF TOPIC, but kinda on topic... Just read ( see below ) that
FLoyd Landis was training up to 50 hours/week riding in his early
formative years.
Is this what it takes to get to the top?? wow, thats huge hours. I
remember some elite college skiing buddies mentioning 25 hours a week and
I thought that was huge. Maybe these huge hours that Floyd was doing
early on are what it takes to develop yourself fully for later ??
JK


I've heard it expostulated that anyone with a more or less normal
physiology has what it takes to become a top cyclist. At least in the
physical department. It's then a matter of mental strength and proper
training. Floyd himself says it's all about he who trains hardest and
most wins.

Pros ride about 35,000km a year in training. Call that an average of 3
hours per day, 6 days a week. Actually it's probably more during the
season and pre-season. 50 hours per week seems extreme but I suppose it
helped more than it hurt.

If I won lotto I'm sure I could swing 25 a week. If it were a job as
exciting as bike racing, no problem upping that. I'm sure skiing is the
same.

Joseph


Landis won the junior national cross country race at Michigan's Traverse
City when he was 18.

He graduated from Conestoga Valley High School in 1994 and moved to
Irvine in California where he first raced for TWB - a tiny bike component
company - and then for Chevy Trucks.

However,Landis' cycling career appeared to be over when the latter
sponsorship was yanked in the spring of 1998.

He decided not to return to Farmsersville but stayed in California and
did what came naturally: he rode for hours on end.

"I didn't know what else to do," he says.

Landis was still unemployed after a couple of months of 50-hour training
weeks - but in terrific shape. He and Geoghegan - who'd been a Chevy
Trucks teammate - decided to enter some road races. The pair took
pleasure in creating chaos in the peloton; they'd attack out of the gate
and stage arguments in front of other riders: "It's my turn to go."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishex...522-qqqx=1.asp




  #9  
Old July 23rd 06, 11:07 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Posts: 447
Default how much training ...

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 18:39:37 -0400, "32 degrees"
wrote:

I might agree with you Joseph.
We had a young rider here in my town who was on our track running team as a
freshman and sophomore.
He showed no brilliance in distance running ( a sure sign of a simply normal
VO2 max ) and in fact was much slower than some of the other kids. He then
took up cycling. He's amassed hundreds, possibly thousands of hours on the
bike and is now in Belgium competing for a team there. At 20 years of age
he's dang tough. I'd not be surprised to see him in the TdFrance someday
with his work ethic, mental strength, and hard training attitude. Google
Todd Elenz and you'll see his results.


There are at least ten thousand riders competing on a team in Belgium.
And several hundred that are excellent riders. It's quite an
accomplishment for a rider from the US to travel to another country
and to get onto a good team. I see he's on a good team the does
Interclub events -- that's excellent.

And each year perhaps 30 Belgium-based riders "turn professional"
(join one of the approximately 100 top teams in the world -- which
includes minor pro teams in Belgium, the US and many other countries).
It's a big jump to make that step.

And then, to go from that to, say participating in the Tour of France
or even getting onto one of the top 20 pro teams in the world is
another matter entirely.

JFT


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  #10  
Old July 23rd 06, 11:14 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
32 degrees
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Posts: 110
Default how much training ...

You certainly are one of the biking experts in the group John....
tell me more. What sort of team is Todd on? Are his results in the races
you googled "excellent" or just "ok" ????
Anytime someone can average over 23mph in a time trial I say WOW, but of
course, I'm an average joe on a bike.
For a 20 yr. old would you say he's possible tour de france material? Or is
that a joke? He emails me results occasionally and I'll note that he is in
the top %% of many of the races - no wins, but then again he's not a
sprinter type. At 5'11" and 140 pounds he's built for mountain stages and
long races.

JK

My initial point was, like Joseph said, an average joe can make it pretty
big in the biking world. This kid showed no promise as an aerobic athlete
when i first coached him but since has certainly proved he is - through
sheer hard work.


"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 18:39:37 -0400, "32 degrees"
wrote:

I might agree with you Joseph.
We had a young rider here in my town who was on our track running team as
a
freshman and sophomore.
He showed no brilliance in distance running ( a sure sign of a simply
normal
VO2 max ) and in fact was much slower than some of the other kids. He
then
took up cycling. He's amassed hundreds, possibly thousands of hours on
the
bike and is now in Belgium competing for a team there. At 20 years of age
he's dang tough. I'd not be surprised to see him in the TdFrance someday
with his work ethic, mental strength, and hard training attitude. Google
Todd Elenz and you'll see his results.


There are at least ten thousand riders competing on a team in Belgium.
And several hundred that are excellent riders. It's quite an
accomplishment for a rider from the US to travel to another country
and to get onto a good team. I see he's on a good team the does
Interclub events -- that's excellent.

And each year perhaps 30 Belgium-based riders "turn professional"
(join one of the approximately 100 top teams in the world -- which
includes minor pro teams in Belgium, the US and many other countries).
It's a big jump to make that step.

And then, to go from that to, say participating in the Tour of France
or even getting onto one of the top 20 pro teams in the world is
another matter entirely.

JFT


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Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************



 




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