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Roller skiing introduce bad kick habit?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 5th 04, 04:04 PM
-JP-
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Default Roller skiing introduce bad kick habit?

Yesterday I was out with an instructor watching me stride. I wish I
can charge that kind of money . I had all the wrong thing right. My
butt was so far back he had to tie rope around my butt and pull from
behind while I strided.

I think I've got what a kick is. It is like jumping diagonally forward
with flat foot, while the foot is under a forwarded hip. I was amazed
how much grip I got. What used to be wax problem is really a kick
setting problem. Even a little wax can kick pretty good and increase
speed. The instructor said it took him 1000k to get it right.

I am sure the kick has been discussed endlessly before. Any further
tips?

There is an earlier thread about roller skiing. My mind was flashing
all over the place about this new toy for the summer. After
yesterday's instruction I think that classic roller skiing will
introduce bad kick habit.
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  #2  
Old March 5th 04, 06:12 PM
Gene Goldenfeld
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Default Roller skiing introduce bad kick habit?

I recall several years ago you reported having attended an Anikin
clinic. Their style was (and remains?) "big skiing" with lots of
forward lean and a long arm/hand thrust. Without careful attention that
can lead to hinging at the waist. In the past few years, classical
posture has become more upright and the stride length shortened.
There's more emphasis on a quicker kick motion and a little longer glide
(where possible). Jumping, even diagonally, is not a good image.

Here's a quick progression we use in teaching that you can do right
where you are inside:
1)Flex your ankles and feel your weight falling forward; then shuffle
around for awhile doing that;
2)Continue that, but now focus on leading the forward motion with the
front of your thighs, as if there were silver dollars in there that you
were going to put down one track, then the other;
3)While continuing these, get even stronger kick by holding your heel
down as long as possible;
4)Go out in your great backyard and repeat this progression on snow.

Poles: The trick is that when adding poles most people at first lose
everything they have just learned. Thus, a poling progression:
1)Carry poles in the center and let arms swing like pendulums, loose
from the shoulder socket, as you continue to practice the lower body
progression;
2)Put the pole straps on, but just drag the poles forward on the snow at
first, just pushing on them when the hands get forward (keep hands low);
3)As this becomes comfortable, let the hands come up but not far out --
the best image is to let the elbow lead and determine how far the arm
goes; the elbow just bends and the hand comes into a natural position
(the is counter to the "big ski" approach of swinging the hands out as
far as possible).

More advanced:
4)Start the poling motion with a quick ab crunch;
5)Let the elbow flop out consciously as the arm comes forward. Feel your
midsection open up. This gives room for a more powerful upper body
compression into the abs.

There are different opinions about striding on rollerskis (vs. just d-p
and kick/dp). I wonder if a lot of that doesn't come from the days of
"big skiing." The latter, with it's greater body lean, required very
fine tuning of kick timing. With a more upright posture, the
progression above should work fine on rollerskis. In fact, both the
USST and Zach's Jenex video use rollerskis to demonstrate very similar
progressions to this one.

Gene Goldenfeld

-JP- wrote:

Yesterday I was out with an instructor watching me stride. I wish I
can charge that kind of money . I had all the wrong thing right. My
butt was so far back he had to tie rope around my butt and pull from
behind while I strided.

I think I've got what a kick is. It is like jumping diagonally forward
with flat foot, while the foot is under a forwarded hip. I was amazed
how much grip I got. What used to be wax problem is really a kick
setting problem. Even a little wax can kick pretty good and increase
speed. The instructor said it took him 1000k to get it right.

I am sure the kick has been discussed endlessly before. Any further
tips?

There is an earlier thread about roller skiing. My mind was flashing
all over the place about this new toy for the summer. After
yesterday's instruction I think that classic roller skiing will
introduce bad kick habit.

  #3  
Old March 8th 04, 03:57 AM
-JP-
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Default Roller skiing introduce bad kick habit?

4)Go out in your great backyard and repeat this progression on snow.


Thanks Gene. The flex ankle and hold heel improved my glide. I went
out today to do easy 12k w/o poles (poles held in mid section). It was
the same trail I did with poles on the day of Xmas eve. May be it was
because I didn't have to say Merry Xmas to everyone I saw on the
trail, I was surprised and pleased that it took me about the same
amount of time.

JP
  #4  
Old March 8th 04, 04:02 AM
Gene Goldenfeld
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Default Roller skiing introduce bad kick habit?

One thing all three of those steps do together is assure that the
forward driving foot lands in front of the kick foot instead of behind
it or alongside.

-JP- wrote:

4)Go out in your great backyard and repeat this progression on snow.


Thanks Gene. The flex ankle and hold heel improved my glide. I went
out today to do easy 12k w/o poles (poles held in mid section). It was
the same trail I did with poles on the day of Xmas eve. May be it was
because I didn't have to say Merry Xmas to everyone I saw on the
trail, I was surprised and pleased that it took me about the same
amount of time.

JP

  #5  
Old March 8th 04, 04:23 PM
Dell Todd
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Default Roller skiing introduce bad kick habit?

Gene Goldenfeld wrote in message ...
I recall several years ago you reported having attended an Anikin
clinic.


....(snip)

4)Go out in your great backyard and repeat this progression on snow.


Gene

There evidently are two "JP's"

You are confusing the present JP in this thread with Jeff Potter of
backyard infame.

Jeff Potter, I can vouch, has actually developed some pretty sweet
striding technique in his backyard, &/or at the Anikin clinic. His
hips were tucked in the correct forward position as he disappeared
into the icy maw ahead of me, actually yelling this on an icy & very
fast downhill: "HOLY SMOKES !!"

I'm not even joking ! And yep, he was wearing what I like to call the
Team Sweden '76 outfit: blue & yellow addidas triple stripe, knickers,
with genuine woolen socks and the old school low top classic ski
"shoes." He makes the entire package work surprisingly well. I
reccommend he stay the course.

Dell
  #6  
Old March 9th 04, 03:14 AM
Gene Goldenfeld
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Posts: n/a
Default Roller skiing introduce bad kick habit?

Oh, you're right. I wondered what that was all about, but then J Potter
surprises us all the time.

Gene

Dell Todd wrote:

Gene Goldenfeld wrote in message ...
I recall several years ago you reported having attended an Anikin
clinic.


...(snip)

4)Go out in your great backyard and repeat this progression on snow.


Gene

There evidently are two "JP's"

You are confusing the present JP in this thread with Jeff Potter of
backyard infame.

Jeff Potter, I can vouch, has actually developed some pretty sweet
striding technique in his backyard, &/or at the Anikin clinic. His
hips were tucked in the correct forward position as he disappeared
into the icy maw ahead of me, actually yelling this on an icy & very
fast downhill: "HOLY SMOKES !!"

I'm not even joking ! And yep, he was wearing what I like to call the
Team Sweden '76 outfit: blue & yellow addidas triple stripe, knickers,
with genuine woolen socks and the old school low top classic ski
"shoes." He makes the entire package work surprisingly well. I
reccommend he stay the course.

Dell

 




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