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#11
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Salomon's New Classic Propulsion Binding and the Salomon SkateWedge.
On Mar 17, 8:07*am, Douglas wrote:
On Mar 17, 6:24*am, Jan Gerrit Klok Jan.Gerrit.Klok. wrote: You're getting old if you mistake 4 years for 1 :-) I fail to see the relevance though. Would you rather trust a manufacturer's story than to read a review on a new product from an actual recreational skier? I may be a novice, but ski skating is my life. When I'm on snow, I make up for the months I did not live in the snow. Also, the new ice age we're entering misrepresented as "Global Warming" had me skiing the streets of coastal Netherlands for several days this winter. I have done more kms on snow on a single day than I've ridden on a bike in many years. Actually, I think the Wedges raise the boot more at the heel than the front, but I could be misremembring. The whole idea of the things is to fix the "drag/hang" of the tip which many skaters experience. The higher heels effectively have the ankle lift the tips off the snow. 4mm difference under the foot is like 2cm for the ski tips. I'll again stress, I could only tell a significant difference when I consciously followed throw, pushing off with the toes. Addressing the calf muscles normally to be left alone. I have not tried to find an explanation for this perceived or real effect. The wedges seems to have merit, but will not be needed for all types of ski. Look at the position of your binding relative to the snow surface, how high off front and rear? My Equipe10's are the most "draggy" in that respect, compared to my other skis, looking at geometry alone. Flex and balance will likely play a role as well. -- Jan Gerrit Klok Jan, With much respect I'm not attempting to draw you into a verbal spat, but perhaps you could be more clear on what you are describing here. You're putting forth a lot of thoughts. For example "bumper and second axis Pilot 2 pin". Also it's pretty clear the wedge raises the forefoot of the boot more than the heel. Not the other way around. In order to increase forward ankle flex the forefoot needs to be higher not the opposite. Personnaly I would like to see Salomon make a skate binding like the Rottefella. *In design the simplest design usually wins out sort of like "Hakkoms Razor". Get rid of the mechanical springs and levers on the Pilot and use a rubber flexor at the toe and control return flexor like the Rottefella to stabilize the tip. It really is a minimalistic design marvel. Thanks for your thoughts and you're skiing on the Netherlands Coast because Global Warming really exists and is re-structuring the jet stream. Happy Trails and I'm not trying to bait you into a flame war.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - How does the wedge raising the forefoot increase the ankle flex angle? With a wege higher at the toe than heel I would think that the skier would have to increase ankle flex even more to get the skier's center of gravity forward over the toe. Edgar |
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#12
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Interesting how things need to be made personal, "patience young grasshopper, so much to learn". Never had that in the bike scene, and never treated anyone that way myself. If someone had an experience with a product, even testing it shortly, or as a first-ever 2-wheel experience, I would take note, and store it for when I'd need it. Experiences albeit personal, are usally very telling, of something real going on. It just may be something different or more complex than the person sharing it.
Anyway, I'll be quite stupid if I managed to get this wrong, and having missed it with the thing sin my hands and under my feet. I was told the wedge is to lift the tips off the snow primarily, and that it helps with the toe push-off that is normally taboo. I never figured anything else but the heels being raised more, that's what makes sense to me. For range of motion from the ankle, a lower heel would be beneficial. But would that be BETTER? Then I would hope the (inline)skating sports would have jumped on that decades earlier. Wedges to me? Fix for a design flaw in the Equipe 10 ski height variance under the binding which the competition didn't put in there, saving the wedges in dead weight and unwanted complexity. I am a bit of an inventor, but don't always have a CAD drawing ready when an idea surfaces. I have a hunch, now supported by the Pilot II experience, that for racers, there is something to be had from a real clap skate style binding, that allows positive toe extension. Yes, boots will be higher off the skis make room under the toes. If people are really interested, I might try sketching some up, but reality dictates it will never happen evne if the idea would be sound. Salomon won't like it, and skiers won't like it (another useless standard). We could get more out of pilot boots though, the 2 fix-spaced pins are mighty versatile for connecting to something. Now, go ski those wedges for yourself, and check which side goes up. I've been wrong before, and not afraid to admit fault here. |
#13
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Salomon's New Classic Propulsion Binding and the Salomon SkateWedge.
Jan Gerrit Klok wrote:
snip Anyway, I'll be quite stupid if I managed to get this wrong, and having missed it with the thing sin my hands and under my feet. I was told the wedge is to lift the tips off the snow primarily, and that it helps with the toe push-off that is normally taboo. I never figured anything else but the heels being raised more, that's what makes sense to me. For range of motion from the ankle, a lower heel would be beneficial. But would that be BETTER? Then I would hope the (inline)skating sports snip is this what you're talking about? http://www.skiroll.it/shop/en/produc...-SNS-WEDGE.asp The high end of the wedge is clearly under the toe of the binding. Bob |
#14
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Salomon's New Classic Propulsion Binding and the Salomon SkateWedge.
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#15
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Salomon's New Classic Propulsion Binding and the Salomon SkateWedge.
Douglas wrote:
I saw some pics of the new Salomon Classic Propulsion binding on Fasterskier. They're going back to one axis and a rubber flexor. A good idea. I'll use my Pilot Classic for roller skiing. No chance to malfunction without snow getting into the kevlar strap mechanism. Oddly the pic of the new binding shows the tail piece of the binding being really narrow. I'm not sure but it looks like the boot sole rests on the ski itself. The ridge in the binding still fits into the slot on the boot.There is also some writing saying ultra low binding. Perhaps they acheive this with the boot sole contacting the ski and not the plastic tail piece. Yes, the boot sole contacts the skis. Secondly there was a video of the new Salomon Skating wedge on Salomon's Nordic Facebook account. A Italian tech says they installed the Salomon Wedge on all the skate skis and it was like night and day. Does anyone have a clue what this wedge is. Hopefully it's not a disaster like the Pilot Classic Binding. This wedge fixes what has been bothering me about my ski boots - namely the high heels. It would be entirely unnecessary if they didn't elevate the heels in the boots so much in the first place. The wedge reduces the forefoot/heel height differential by only 4 mm, which judging by the looks of most my ski boots, still leaves the heel elevated quite a bit. My old Centrix boots are particularly high and it definitely affects how I push (more awkward) compared to the lower heeled, but still elevated Salomons. I'm tempted to put this on all my skis, and maybe see if stacking two of the would be too much. I might also try cutting down the heels in the old Centrix boots. I've been using no-heeled shoes for running (Feelmax brand) for only the past half week, but they are a revelation for me in how good my running form feels without elevated heels. I know skiing is a different activitiy entirely, but I've had the sense that the heels in my ski boots are too high for a few years now, so it's good to see that top racers have noticed this too. |
#16
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Salomon's New Classic Propulsion Binding and the Salomon SkateWedge.
Andrew (and anyone else), before starting or getting far with a
switch to barefeet or thin-soled running shoes, I'd suggest a look at the series (and especially the cautions) at http://www.sportsscientists.com/. A good blog for other subjects too (and their book, The Runner's Body, is also quite good). Gene On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Andrew Lee wrote: I've been using no-heeled shoes for running (Feelmax brand) for only the past half week, but they are a revelation for me in how good my running form feels without elevated heels. I know skiing is a different activitiy entirely, but I've had the sense that the heels in my ski boots are too high for a few years now, so it's good to see that top racers have noticed this too. |
#17
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Salomon's New Classic Propulsion Binding and the Salomon SkateWedge.
On Mar 18, 9:04*am, wrote:
Andrew Lee wrote: I've been using no-heeled shoes for running (Feelmax brand) for only the past half week, but they are a revelation for me in how good my running form feels without elevated heels. I know skiing is a different activitiy entirely, but I've had the sense that the heels in my ski boots are too high for a few years now, so it's good to see that top racers have noticed this too. Andrew (and anyone else), before starting or getting far with a switch to barefeet or thin-soled running shoes, I'd suggest a look at the series (and especially the cautions) athttp://www.sportsscientists.com/. *A good blog for other subjects too (and their book, The Runner's Body, is also quite good). This is really off topic, but I'm fine. I've been running following the minimalist line of thought more or less at times since I started running (in 1985) and long before the recent upsurge in barefoot running talk. These are just the first shoes that I've had that are truly flat. My legs are pretty durable. When I started running, I ran 8 miles my first day out at the beginning of summer, and then 9 miles each day for the rest of the summer (shows quick adaptability). I've put 4,300 miles into a single pair of cheap shoes in college (I ran 5,000 miles that year), so it's not like I need the cushioning - the EVA in the forefoot of those shoes were squished flat in the first week I seem to recall. I was injury free, except for a sprained ankle, until a couple of years ago when I started having achilles issues. That's partly what's motivating me to go a bit further towards barefoot style. Thanks for the link. Just doing a quick scan for now, I think I'm familiar with most of the material and I have read some of the studies they reference. One thing that caught my eye was the discussion of whether or not there is still a sensory "barrier" in minimalistic shoes. I'd say it depends. In my thinner Feelmaxes (Niesa with 1.3 mm outsole plus insole totals about 3.5 mm foot to ground), I land noticeably softer because of better ground feel (they feel like wearing sock only) than in the thicker pair (Osma - 2.1 mm outsole plus backing and insole totalling about 6mm foot to ground). Like I said before, especially for the thinner pair, it's a revelation that I don't feel harshness at footstrike, and having no heel rise really frees up my stride. |
#18
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Quote:
There is always one less and one more experienced than you. And you can't measure a heart by age. |
#19
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Salomon's New Classic Propulsion Binding and the Salomon SkateWedge.
Jan Gerrit Klok wrote:
Bob;144534 Wrote: wrote:- And I thought you live a good distance from snow and just got on it for the first time a season or so ago. - and since Dec 2006 has posted 577 times on XCskiforum - many more than Jeff P :-0 Some people talk. Some people ski. Bob So superficial. If more are like you and Gene, no wonder it's had to get any decent online info on skiing. Learn some from cycling. I hope your mothers are proud. There is always one less and one more experienced than you. And you can't measure a heart by age. Well, over the course of your visit you've now gone after women, Jews and now our mothers. Who's next? Gene |
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