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What I (think I) learned about kick waxing this weekend



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 15th 03, 07:41 PM
Chris Cline
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Default What I (think I) learned about kick waxing this weekend

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Hi All-
I guess I'm doing a lot of posts today-- see what happens when I finally get to go skiing?
Anyway, I did a 10K classic race this weekend at Soldier Hollow, and I think I learned something about kick waxing. I just wanted to run it out there and get some feed back before I delude myself further.

The snow at Soldier hollow is a firm base of man-made snow, however, they got about 1/2 inch of fresh snow on top of that overnight before the race. I waxed perfectly for the conditions at 9:00 AM: a _thin_ layer of Toko multi-viola klister, bases cooled, then a layer of Toko dark red hard wax applied over the top (to protect the klister from those pesky snow crystals). And the skis went great. Until the sun came out just before the start at 11:00. That, and I realized that 150 racers doing 4 laps around the course were going to pretty quickly take the snow crystals out of the equation, and make it a pure klister skiing experience.

So, the usual pre-race wax changing panic ensued. I quickly borrowed a tube of Swix universal klister, and put it on for a length of about 8-9" , centered on the binding.

And had NO kick, but a little bit of grab on the glide. On the bright side, I had a great arm workout dragging my sorry butt around the course 4 times.

So here's what I think happened: I applied the klister too far forward. That 8-9" should have been right under my foot, running from heel to toe. I noticed that the only way I could get any kick (off of what seemed to be the ball of my foot), was by extending my arms (and the rest of my body) waaaaay forward (almost a frankenstein walk, if you're looking for a mental picture).

So, lesson #1: Think about the effects of time, temperature, and hundreds of feet on that layer of snow over the ice. Lesson #2: your kick zone is centered under your FOOT, not your BINDING (which is actually a little forward of your toe).

anyone care to comment?

Chris
SLC, UT


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DIVHi All-/DIV
DIVI guess I'm doing a lot of posts today-- see what happens when I finally get to go skiing?/DIV
DIVAnyway, I did a 10K classic race this weekend at Soldier Hollow, and I think I learned something about kick waxing.  I just wanted to run it out there and get some feed back before I delude myself further./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVThe snow at Soldier hollow is a firm base of man-made snow, however, they got about 1/2 inch of fresh snow on top of that overnight before the race.  I waxed perfectly for the conditions at 9:00 AM:  a _thin_ layer of Toko multi-viola klister, bases cooled, then a layer of Toko dark red hard wax applied over the top (to protect the klister from those pesky snow crystals).  And the skis went great.  Until the sun came out just before the start at 11:00.  That, and I realized that 150 racers doing 4 laps around the course were going to pretty quickly take the snow crystals out of the equation, and make it a pure klister skiing experience./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVSo, the usual pre-race wax changing panic ensued.  I quickly borrowed a tube of Swix universal klister, and put it on for a length of about 8-9" , centered on the binding./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVAnd had NO kick, but a little bit of grab on the glide.  On the bright side, I had a great arm workout dragging my sorry butt around the course 4 times./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVSo here's what I think happened:  I applied the klister too far forward.  That 8-9" should have been right under my foot, running from heel to toe.  I noticed that the only way I could get any kick (off of what seemed to be the ball of my foot), was by extending my arms (and the rest of my body) waaaaay forward (almost a frankenstein walk, if you're looking for a mental picture)./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVSo, lesson #1:  Think about the effects of time, temperature, and hundreds of feet on that layer of snow over the ice.  Lesson #2:  your kick zone is centered under your FOOT, not your BINDING (which is actually a little forward of your toe)./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVanyone care to comment?/DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVChris/DIV
DIVSLC, UT/DIVphr SIZE=1
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  #2  
Old December 15th 03, 07:52 PM
Rob Bradlee
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Default What I (think I) learned about kick waxing this weekend


So, lesson #1: Think about the effects of time, temperature, and
hundreds of feet on that layer of snow over the ice. Lesson #2:
your kick zone is centered under your FOOT, not your BINDING (which
is actually a little forward of your toe).

anyone care to comment?


Lesson 1 sounds good.
Lesson 2 sounds wrong. Perhaps on the pair of skis that you have this
is true, but on most skis the balance point is at the front of the
binding and that's usually the center (thereabouts) of the wax pocket.
A more likely explanation might be that the wax was not thick enough
for the conditions. Or you had the wrong temperature range for the
wax.

Rob Bradlee





  #3  
Old December 17th 03, 09:00 PM
Ken Roberts
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Default What I (think I) learned about kick waxing this weekend

It surprised me to find out where the kick-grip zone was on my classic
striding skis.

Chris Cline wrote
your kick zone is centered under your FOOT,
not your BINDING (which is actually a little forward of your toe).


On any pair of classic skis I've checked, the kick zone is centered with
neither the foot nor the binding. The double-camber "wax pocket" for kick
grip is centered somewhere around like the toe-bar of the binding.

So more than half of the grip-wax zone is in _front_ of my toe. This
contradicted my understanding, since like Chris, I had the not unreasonable
expectation that it was centered under my foot.

Where the grip-wax zone is has big implications for waxing. Any serious
classic skier should find out where the actual wax pocket really is on each
of their skis, and mark the two ends with waterproof ink. One possible
procedure for doing that is on the web at:
http://roberts-1.com/xcski/classic/secrets/fit
I'd be glad to hear about other written wax-pocket-measuring or detailed
ski-fitting procedures on the web.

Knowing the actual location of the wax pocket is also important for striding
technique. Because it makes a big difference whether I focus my pressure on
the center of the grip wax zone, versus the rear of that zone. Definitely
worth experimenting with.

Ken


  #4  
Old December 18th 03, 06:37 PM
Sly D. Skeez
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Default What I (think I) learned about kick waxing this weekend

(Chris Cline) wrote in message oo.com...
--0-1132015205-1071516910=:37490
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


The snow at Soldier hollow is a firm base of man-made snow, however, they got

about 1/2 inch of fresh snow on top of that overnight before the race.
I waxed perfectly for the conditions at 9:00 AM: a _thin_ layer of
Toko multi-viola
klister, bases cooled, then a layer of Toko dark red hard wax applied
over the
top (to protect the klister from those pesky snow crystals). And the
skis went great. Until the sun came out just before the start at
11:00. That, and I realized that 150 racers doing 4 laps around the
course were going to pretty
quickly take the snow crystals out of the equation, and make it a pure
klister skiing experience.


Chris, I agree with Rob. The pocket doesn't sound right being under
the foot. If you get a chance to look at Fischer's, they have ""
marks for a typical wax pocket. You can see for yourself.

As for getting grip, man that's always tough. I've never been able to
get grip out at our local downhill area and then I talked with a local
skier (Krenz). He said to put it on thick. Also, he joked that he
never cleans his kick wax, so it's thick as hell. So I put it on thick
and wow, great kick and glide. After listening to "a thin layer of
klister and a layer of red" going thicker was the first thing that
came to mind. If you go longer with the wax towards the tip, you can
usually feel when you've gone too far because you loose your glide.
Then the next step is to change wax. I would guess that you should
have been able to get grip with a hard wax (although the wax may not
last), but the tracks may have iced pretty badly with all the skiers.

Jay Wenner
  #5  
Old December 18th 03, 08:11 PM
Chris Cline
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Posts: n/a
Default What I (think I) learned about kick waxing this weekend

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Yep, I think the consensus is "you put it in the right place, but didn't put enough of it on." Like I said in the subject line " what I THINK I learned"! Now I feel a little more confident that I may actually HAVE learned something.

I too have been experimenting with not cleaning my skis except when I absolutely have to. Previous to the klister, the skis had had several layers of Toko red (brights and dark). But it had been really cold the previous week, so I had scraped as much wax off as I could. This resulted in perfect kick on residual red-- in very cold conditions, but going up a continuous 5-mile hill (and rocketing back down, so breakaway speed was much more of a factor than glide).

thanks all! I love ya, man (can I borrow your wax bench?)
Chris

"Sly D. Skeez" wrote:
(Chris Cline) wrote in message oo.com...
--0-1132015205-1071516910=:37490
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


The snow at Soldier hollow is a firm base of man-made snow, however, they got

about 1/2 inch of fresh snow on top of that overnight before the race.
I waxed perfectly for the conditions at 9:00 AM: a _thin_ layer of
Toko multi-viola
klister, bases cooled, then a layer of Toko dark red hard wax applied
over the
top (to protect the klister from those pesky snow crystals). And the
skis went great. Until the sun came out just before the start at
11:00. That, and I realized that 150 racers doing 4 laps around the
course were going to pretty
quickly take the snow crystals out of the equation, and make it a pure
klister skiing experience.


Chris, I agree with Rob. The pocket doesn't sound right being under
the foot. If you get a chance to look at Fischer's, they have ""
marks for a typical wax pocket. You can see for yourself.

As for getting grip, man that's always tough. I've never been able to
get grip out at our local downhill area and then I talked with a local
skier (Krenz). He said to put it on thick. Also, he joked that he
never cleans his kick wax, so it's thick as hell. So I put it on thick
and wow, great kick and glide. After listening to "a thin layer of
klister and a layer of red" going thicker was the first thing that
came to mind. If you go longer with the wax towards the tip, you can
usually feel when you've gone too far because you loose your glide.
Then the next step is to change wax. I would guess that you should
have been able to get grip with a hard wax (although the wax may not
last), but the tracks may have iced pretty badly with all the skiers.

Jay Wenner





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--0-581261269-1071777683=:42903
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DIVYep, I think the consensus is "you put it in the right place, but didn't put enough of it on."  Like I said in the subject line " what I THINK I learned"!  Now I feel a little more confident that I may actually HAVE learned something./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVI too have been experimenting with not cleaning my skis except when I absolutely have to.  Previous to the klister, the skis had had several layers of Toko red (brights and dark).  But it had been really cold the previous week, so I had scraped as much wax off as I could.  This resulted in perfect kick on residual red-- in very cold conditions, but going up a continuous 5-mile hill (and rocketing back down, so breakaway speed was much more of a factor than glide)./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVthanks all!  I love ya, man (can I borrow your wax bench?)/DIV
DIVChrisBRBRBI"Sly D. Skeez" >/I/B wrote:/DIV
BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px (Chris Cline) wrote in message . yahoo.com>...BR> --0-1132015205-1071516910=:37490BR> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-asciiBRBR> The snow at Soldier hollow is a firm base of man-made snow, however, they got BRabout 1/2 inch of fresh snow on top of that overnight before the race.BRI waxed perfectly for the conditions at 9:00 AM: a _thin_ layer ofBRToko multi-violaBRklister, bases cooled, then a layer of Toko dark red hard wax appliedBRover theBRtop (to protect the klister from those pesky snow crystals). And theBRskis went great. Until the sun came out just before the start atBR11:00. That, and I realized that 150 racers doing 4 laps around theBRcourse were going to prettyBRquickly take the snow crystals out of the equation, and make it a pureBRklister skiing
experience.BRBRBRChris, I agree with Rob. The pocket doesn't sound right being underBRthe foot. If you get a chance to look at Fischer's, they have "<"BRmarks for a typical wax pocket. You can see for yourself.BRBRAs for getting grip, man that's always tough. I've never been able toBRget grip out at our local downhill area and then I talked with a localBRskier (Krenz). He said to put it on thick. Also, he joked that heBRnever cleans his kick wax, so it's thick as hell. So I put it on thickBRand wow, great kick and glide. After listening to "a thin layer ofBRklister and a layer of red" going thicker was the first thing thatBRcame to mind. If you go longer with the wax towards the tip, you canBRusually feel when you've gone too far because you loose your glide.BRThen the next step is to change wax. I would guess that you shouldBRhave been able to get grip with a hard wax (although the wax may notBRlast), but the tracks may have iced pretty!
badly
with all the skiers.BRBRJay WennerBRBRBRBR/BLOCKQUOTEphr SIZE=1
Do you Yahoo!?br
a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21260/*http://photos.yahoo.com"New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing/a
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