Did Babikov win final climb TdSki? Can't see it...

I heard that Babikov won the final climb of the TdSki but I just
watched it and, of course, that D. Cologne (sp) guy won it all, won
the final climb, finished first, etc. No mention of Babikov. What's
up, what did I miss? Thanks, JP

Go the the FIS site and look up the results for that day. You'll see a
1 next to Babikov for winning the final stage, which is different than
Cologna's overall win TdS. Think of it as an interval start race.

Gene

jeff potter wrote:

I heard that Babikov won the final climb of the TdSki but I just
watched it and, of course, that D. Cologne (sp) guy won it all, won
the final climb, finished first, etc. No mention of Babikov. What's
up, what did I miss? Thanks, JP

On Jan 14, 6:16*am, wrote:

Go the the FIS site and look up the results for that day. *You'll see a
1 next to Babikov for winning the final stage, which is different than
Cologna's overall win TdS. *Think of it as an interval start race.

Or, perhaps, as a half-race: the skiers got only 50% - rounded to a
full point, I believe - of the normal WC points.

Or, maybe, as a non-race: the TdS wins and placings don't count - at
least in the official FIS tally - as genuine World Cup wins and
placings.


BTW is Babikov a small guy or at least a guy with a relatively slight
frame? In the women's race the two Norwegians, Johaug and Steira, won
with an impressive gap and they certainly seem to have a highly
favourable VO2max/weight ratio.


Anders

PS a bit of "bitch talk" and gossip: Virpi Kuitunen is well-known to
abhor the final climb and especially the steep parts and after her
victory she again voiced her opinion that the hill has nothing to do
with cross-country skiing and the stage should be dropped.

When the Swede Anna Haag - who was almost a minute and a half faster
than Kuitunen on the climb - heard this, she said: "It's the hill that
makes the Tour. The Tour is something special and it must stand out as
unique among all the other races. Therefore I think there must be a
hill of this kind, there are such a little bit extreme events in every
other sport, too." Unlike Kuitunen, she doesn't find it to be a freak
show for the sole benefit of TV viewers: "No, not at all. If you feel
it's too tough and demanding, you must just train harder."

The Swedish journalists were grateful for Haag's opinion's and
approached Kuitunen for a comment: "Fine. Good for her." But Anna
believes the hill characterizes the entire tour... "So where did she
finish in the final ranking?"

This was but another clash in the ongoing verbal battle which at least
according to Swedish journalists is going on between Kuitunen and the
Swedish skiers. In December, Kuitunen was branded as a poor loser and
a player of mindgames when she pointed out that in the 2008 TdS it
wasn't so much a case of Charlotte Kalla being great, but of her being
really bad in the climb that year. Kuitunen also refused to single out
or name Kalla as her main competitor.

In Norway, much was made of the fact that a quite irritated Kuitunen
complained of Marit Bjørgen's habit of stepping on her skis. Some
Norwegians seemed to believe that Marit would never do such a thing
and some opined that someone caught for a doping offense doesn't have
any right to accuse anyone of anything.

FWIW Kuitunen is definitely a cool lady or an ice princess and her -
IMHO well-deserved - success has given her some diva-like qualities:-)

On a lighter note: the latest hot gossip has it that Kuitunen is,
hmmm, amorously involved with a certain Olympic gold medal winner. The
little birds sing that the lucky guy is no other than Pietro Piller-
Cottrer...


Anders

On Jan 14, 2:31*am, Anders wrote:
On Jan 14, 6:16*am, wrote:

Go the the FIS site and look up the results for that day. *You'll see a
1 next to Babikov for winning the final stage, which is different than
Cologna's overall win TdS. *Think of it as an interval start race.

Or, perhaps, as a half-race: the skiers got only 50% - rounded to a
full point, I believe - of the normal WC points.

Or, maybe, as a non-race: the TdS wins and placings don't count - at
least in the official FIS tally - as genuine World Cup wins and
placings.

BTW is Babikov a small guy or at least a guy with a relatively slight
frame? In the women's race the two Norwegians, Johaug and Steira, won
with an impressive gap and they certainly seem to have a highly
favourable VO2max/weight ratio.

Anders

PS a bit of "bitch talk" and gossip: Virpi Kuitunen is well-known to
abhor the final climb and especially the steep parts and after her
victory she again voiced her opinion that the hill has nothing to do
with cross-country skiing and the stage should be dropped.

When the Swede Anna Haag - who was almost a minute and a half faster
than Kuitunen on the climb - heard this, she said: "It's the hill that
makes the Tour. The Tour is something special and it must stand out as
unique among all the other races. Therefore I think there must be a
hill of this kind, there are such a little bit extreme events in every
other sport, too." *Unlike Kuitunen, she doesn't find it to be a freak
show for the sole benefit of TV viewers: "No, not at all. If you feel
it's too tough and demanding, you must just train harder."

The Swedish journalists were grateful for Haag's opinion's and
approached Kuitunen for a comment: "Fine. Good for her." But Anna
believes the hill characterizes the entire tour... "So where did she
finish in the final ranking?"

This was but another clash in the ongoing verbal battle which at least
according to Swedish journalists is going on between Kuitunen and the
Swedish skiers. In December, Kuitunen was branded as a poor loser and
a player of mindgames when she pointed out that in the 2008 TdS it
wasn't so much a case of Charlotte Kalla being great, but of her being
really bad in the climb that year. Kuitunen also refused to single out
or name Kalla as her main competitor.

In Norway, much was made of the fact that a quite irritated Kuitunen
complained of Marit Bjørgen's habit of stepping on her skis. Some
Norwegians seemed to believe that Marit would never do such a thing
and some opined that someone caught for a doping offense doesn't have
any right to accuse anyone of anything.

FWIW Kuitunen is definitely a cool lady or an ice princess and her -
IMHO well-deserved - success has given her some diva-like qualities:-)

On a lighter note: the latest hot gossip has it that Kuitunen is,
hmmm, amorously involved with a certain Olympic gold medal winner. The
little birds sing that the lucky guy is no other than Pietro Piller-
Cottrer...

Anders

I wish the United States had a female skier like Kuitunen. She is
talented, the Finnish press loves her, and she is very easy on the
eyes. It must get frustrating being top dog and having rival nation
reporters cramming microphones and loaded questions your face. Ski
well Virpi!

Thanks for the correction and the updated press reports. My
understanding is that Kuitunen is not the only one who doesn't think
much of the hill climb, by far. Aside from a relatively larger body,
Kuitunen has back problems that are exacerbated skating, or at least
V1 skating. Beyond that, do we have some national sour grapes?

Gene

Anders wrote:

On Jan 14, 6:16*am, wrote:

Go the the FIS site and look up the results for that day. *You'll see a
1 next to Babikov for winning the final stage, which is different than
Cologna's overall win TdS. *Think of it as an interval start race.

Or, perhaps, as a half-race: the skiers got only 50% - rounded to a
full point, I believe - of the normal WC points.

Or, maybe, as a non-race: the TdS wins and placings don't count - at
least in the official FIS tally - as genuine World Cup wins and
placings.


BTW is Babikov a small guy or at least a guy with a relatively slight
frame? In the women's race the two Norwegians, Johaug and Steira, won
with an impressive gap and they certainly seem to have a highly
favourable VO2max/weight ratio.


Anders

PS a bit of "bitch talk" and gossip: Virpi Kuitunen is well-known to
abhor the final climb and especially the steep parts and after her
victory she again voiced her opinion that the hill has nothing to do
with cross-country skiing and the stage should be dropped.

When the Swede Anna Haag - who was almost a minute and a half faster
than Kuitunen on the climb - heard this, she said: "It's the hill that
makes the Tour. The Tour is something special and it must stand out as
unique among all the other races. Therefore I think there must be a
hill of this kind, there are such a little bit extreme events in every
other sport, too." Unlike Kuitunen, she doesn't find it to be a freak
show for the sole benefit of TV viewers: "No, not at all. If you feel
it's too tough and demanding, you must just train harder."

The Swedish journalists were grateful for Haag's opinion's and
approached Kuitunen for a comment: "Fine. Good for her." But Anna
believes the hill characterizes the entire tour... "So where did she
finish in the final ranking?"

This was but another clash in the ongoing verbal battle which at least
according to Swedish journalists is going on between Kuitunen and the
Swedish skiers. In December, Kuitunen was branded as a poor loser and
a player of mindgames when she pointed out that in the 2008 TdS it
wasn't so much a case of Charlotte Kalla being great, but of her being
really bad in the climb that year. Kuitunen also refused to single out
or name Kalla as her main competitor.

In Norway, much was made of the fact that a quite irritated Kuitunen
complained of Marit Bjørgen's habit of stepping on her skis. Some
Norwegians seemed to believe that Marit would never do such a thing
and some opined that someone caught for a doping offense doesn't have
any right to accuse anyone of anything.

FWIW Kuitunen is definitely a cool lady or an ice princess and her -
IMHO well-deserved - success has given her some diva-like qualities:-)

On a lighter note: the latest hot gossip has it that Kuitunen is,
hmmm, amorously involved with a certain Olympic gold medal winner. The
little birds sing that the lucky guy is no other than Pietro Piller-
Cottrer...


Anders

On Jan 14, 1:31*am, Anders wrote:
On Jan 14, 6:16*am, wrote:

Go the the FIS site and look up the results for that day. *You'll see a
1 next to Babikov for winning the final stage, which is different than
Cologna's overall win TdS. *Think of it as an interval start race.

On a lighter note: the latest hot gossip has it that Kuitunen is,
hmmm, amorously involved with a certain Olympic gold medal winner. The
little birds sing that the lucky guy is no other than Pietro Piller-
Cottrer...

Anders

Great stuff! Love the insider information. A Kuitunen-Piller-Cottrer
kid would be a pretty good skier, I'd bet. The national rivalries are
very interesting, too - though any defense of Bjorgen at this point
has to be made against the backdrop of her yearly fade-outs.

On Jan 13, 11:16*pm, wrote:
Go the the FIS site and look up the results for that day. *You'll see a
1 next to Babikov for winning the final stage, which is different than
Cologna's overall win TdS. *Think of it as an interval start race.

Gene

jeff potter wrote:
I heard that Babikov won the final climb of the TdSki but I just
watched it and, of course, that D. Cologne (sp) guy won it all, won
the final climb, finished first, etc. No mention of Babikov. What's
up, what did I miss? Thanks, JP

Weird.

Are you sure?

So the big finale shown on the video simply didn't feature or mention
the STAGE WINNER? Just ignored possibly a bunch of skiers who finished
faster, skied faster, probably looked better and more dynamic on the
course, etc. They showed all kinds of gaps and stats. And it was all
about the overall?

In the TdF they know to cover both aspects. The US public can
understand it. I find it hard to believe. So is it so? Since none of
the other repliers doubt it, I suppose it is so.

....So is there any footage out there of the actual race? the stage?
showing the stage leaders/winners?

Lastly, I was thinking there might've been an interval start---except
that the "leaders" were spread out in a typical mass-start fashion---
with a half dozen off the front---then a mass of a dozen struggling
swarmers. Not the appearance of a finale that stems from an interval
start, in my view. But this isn't a typical stage. Was that swarm the
"bus"? Then I thought maybe they had done one of those "time back"
staggered starts. Help?

---JP

jeff potter wrote:
Weird.

Are you sure?

So the big finale shown on the video simply didn't feature or mention
the STAGE WINNER? Just ignored possibly a bunch of skiers who finished
faster, skied faster, probably looked better and more dynamic on the
course, etc. They showed all kinds of gaps and stats. And it was all
about the overall?

Not at all weird. They ran the final stage like the classic/freestyle
two-stage pursuits, where the incoming leader starts first, and other
skiers are released based on their overall time back. Therefore, the
overall finish places for the entire tour are determined by the finish
order at the top of the hill at the end of the final stage. The stage
winner is not really important because the goal is getting the highest
finish place at the top, so it is irrelevant to the leaders that
someone behind them is moving up from around 50th to 20th place.
Kuitunen, for example, seemed to go easier on the hill because she had
a good lead, and could save something for the finish.

You can watch all of the coverage of the Tour de Ski he

http://www.universalsports.com/ViewA...ATCLID=3637389

If you are set up to receive digital TV, you can probably get
Universal Sports (usually have an NBC peacock symbol with "US" on the
top right corner of the screen) on one of the stations. I've gotten
it free, broadcast over the air in Anchorage and San Jose. They seem
like they are constantly replaying programs, including the Tour de Ski
this week, but they don't seem to get listings in the local
newspapers, so it's hit and miss finding when something is being
broadcast.

Have you watched any of the coverage of the pursuit in recent Olympics
(since Nagano, I think)? They award a medal for classic on the first
day, and then another medal for the pursuit on the second day, based
on finish line order. No medal is awarded for fastest time on the
second day, because strategy affects the times.

On Jan 14, 4:13*pm, Andrew Lee wrote:
jeff potter wrote:
Weird.

Are you sure?

So the big finale shown on the video simply didn't feature or mention
the STAGE WINNER? Just ignored possibly a bunch of skiers who finished
faster, skied faster, probably looked better and more dynamic on the
course, etc. They showed all kinds of gaps and stats. And it was all
about the overall?

Not at all weird. *They ran the final stage like the classic/freestyle
two-stage pursuits, where the incoming leader starts first, and other
skiers are released based on their overall time back. *Therefore, the
overall finish places for the entire tour are determined by the finish
order at the top of the hill at the end of the final stage. *The stage
winner is not really important because the goal is getting the highest
finish place at the top, so it is irrelevant to the leaders that
someone behind them is moving up from around 50th to 20th place.
Kuitunen, for example, seemed to go easier on the hill because she had
a good lead, and could save something for the finish.

You can watch all of the coverage of the Tour de Ski he

http://www.universalsports.com/ViewA..._ID=23000&ATCL....

If you are set up to receive digital TV, you can probably get
Universal Sports (usually have an NBC peacock symbol with "US" on the
top right corner of the screen) on one of the stations. *I've gotten
it free, broadcast over the air in Anchorage and San Jose. *They seem
like they are constantly replaying programs, including the Tour de Ski
this week, but they don't seem to get listings in the local
newspapers, so it's hit and miss finding when something is being
broadcast.

Have you watched any of the coverage of the pursuit in recent Olympics
(since Nagano, I think)? *They award a medal for classic on the first
day, and then another medal for the pursuit on the second day, based
on finish line order. *No medal is awarded for fastest time on the
second day, because strategy affects the times.

That's correct with respect to the Final Climb stage. You can see the
men's start list - including the gaps between skiers as they leave the
line - here
http://www.tour-de-ski.com/pdf/2009/...09CC2558SL.pdf

(note that the last 20 skiers - including stage winner Babikov - left
in one wave, six minutes behind Cologna)

and the "arrival order" here, which is the same as the overall TdS
final standings:
http://www.tour-de-ski.com/pdf/2009/...09CC2558AO.pdf

The stage standings are different from the arrival order:
http://www.tour-de-ski.com/pdf/2009/...09CC2558RL.pdf

Medals aren't awarded like that in the double pursuit events now. The
"skitahlon" is run continuously, classic first, and the first racer
over the line, at the end of the second, skate leg, wins.

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:31:58 -0800 (PST), Anders
wrote:

some opined that someone caught for a doping offense doesn't have
any right to accuse anyone of anything.

Hahaha.

FWIW Kuitunen is definitely a cool lady or an ice princess and her -
IMHO well-deserved - success has given her some diva-like qualities:-)

I feel about here sort of likethe way I feel about Lance Armstrong -
don't like her but admire her.