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#1
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Pilot Classic - Why
I have Salomon bindings on all my skis and have used Pilot skate
bindings for many troublefree years. I have 3 year old Carbon classic boots and Profil bindings on all my classic skis. I generally am happy with the company's products. I have a couple of friends who have the Pilot classic set up, some with Salomon, some with Atomic. (as far as I can tell, the mechanism is exactly the same?) These friends claim that they really like the Pilot classic binding, that it is an improvement for skiing (but not a huge improvement, and who knows, they may just be imagining it) BUT They have also had problems with the binding when it's cold and therefore use older classic skis with Profil bindings (with modified bumper) when it's cold. In other words, they have resigned themselves to needing different skis and bindings when it's cold and either need two excellent, front line pair each with a different binding, or must use their older, less desirable skis when it's cold. These are serious recreational skiers who do race, but do not own a "quiver" of skis. Like most of us, they have their "best" skis and some older "rock" skis. We live in a cold climate, and it's common to do quite a bit of skiing in temps below -5 F. This to me is an unacceptable and a major failure for Salomon that people should be concerned about. It has led me to a theory of why Salomon developed the Pilot... it was not for improved performance. There may or may not be improved perforemance, but even if there is, I'll bet it's not significant at all. The change was to adjust to the Skiathalon or Pursuit format. By making both skate and classic bindings and boots Pilot, they are now fully compatable, like NNN has always been. The company can then market a combi boot that with a Pilot sole which can be used with both the skate and classic binding. In the old system, skiers had to use a Profil skate binding with their Salomon combi boots. I'm sure the company was embarrassed by this deficiency. The Pilot classic may be a better situation for the limited number of skiers who need or desire that feature, who have a quiver of good skis and therefore can dedicate some to cold weather/Profile use, or who only ski, race or train in above 0F temps. But it is a downgrade for the rest of us who need a reliable cold weather classic binding and an unacceptable technology failure. This is almost enough to make me switch to NNN when I next need boots. It just ****es me off. |
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#2
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Pilot Classic - Why
On Feb 19, 1:40*pm, Camilo wrote:
I have Salomon bindings on all my skis and have used Pilot skate bindings for many troublefree years. *I have 3 year old Carbon classic boots and Profil bindings on all my classic skis. *I generally am happy with the company's products. I have a couple of friends who have the Pilot classic set up, some with Salomon, some with Atomic. (as far as I can tell, the mechanism is exactly the same?) These friends claim that they really like the Pilot classic binding, that it is an improvement for skiing (but not a huge improvement, and who knows, they may just be imagining it) BUT They have also had problems with the binding when it's cold and therefore use older classic skis with Profil bindings (with modified bumper) when it's cold. In other words, they have resigned themselves to needing different skis and bindings when it's cold and either need two excellent, front line pair each with a different binding, or must use their older, less desirable skis when it's cold. *These are serious recreational skiers who do race, but do not own a "quiver" of skis. *Like most of us, they have their "best" skis and some older "rock" skis. *We live in a cold climate, and it's common to do quite a bit of skiing in temps below -5 F. This to me is an unacceptable and a major failure for Salomon that people should be concerned about. *It has led me to a theory of why Salomon developed the Pilot... it was not for improved performance. There may or may not be improved perforemance, but even if there is, I'll bet it's not significant at all. The change was to adjust to the Skiathalon or Pursuit format. *By making both skate and classic bindings and boots Pilot, they are now fully compatable, like NNN has always been. *The company can then market a combi boot that with a Pilot sole which can be used with both the skate and classic binding. *In the old system, skiers had to use a Profil skate binding with their Salomon combi boots. *I'm sure the company was embarrassed by this deficiency. The Pilot classic may be a better situation for the limited number of skiers who need or desire that feature, who have a quiver of good skis and therefore can dedicate some to cold weather/Profile use, or who only ski, race or train in above 0F temps. *But it is a downgrade for the rest of us who need a reliable cold weather classic binding and an unacceptable technology failure. This is almost enough to make me switch to NNN when I next need boots. *It just ****es me off. I wrote about the Pilot 2 Classic binding a few weeks ago at this site. It was actually last year I knew there was something wrong with the new binding. The kevlar strap wouldn't retract in certain conditions. I switched my classic bindings to Rottefella, but the new Rossi and Alpina classic boots weren't the way to go. First off the lacing systems on both are a really poor design compared to the Salomon kevlar lacing system. Moreover, I missed the feel of Salomon boots so much I began switching the bindings back. So now I'm dealing with the occassional clicking and odd feeling of the Pilot 2 classic bindings in certain conditions. My quiver now has some older Profils with the flexors trimmed down and the new bindings. If I get a chance I may demo the new Fischer classic boot and see if the quick lock lacing system is better than the Rossis and Alpina's. The bottom line is I blew a lot of cash trying to get it right. |
#3
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Pilot Classic - Why
I almost abandoned classic skiing and do it occasionally, say every three years. Nevertheless I can tell that Pilot boots on Profil bindings is perfectly OK. This is my gear for hundreds km roller skiing (because Pilot bindings are heavy and my rear wheel then drags the road). Pilot skate bindings solves problems that few persons have : "clap" ski and twisted binding The drawback is additional weight (and that ****es me off). I don't know for the Pilot classic binding, but I have the feeling that it solves a problem that Salomon corp has ; selling more or dying |
#4
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Pilot Classic - Why
Maybe, but since you didn't specify the problem(s) your friends are/were
having, it's hard to know how seriously to take the rest. Were the bindings well lubricated? rm Camilo wrote: I have Salomon bindings on all my skis and have used Pilot skate bindings for many troublefree years. I have 3 year old Carbon classic boots and Profil bindings on all my classic skis. I generally am happy with the company's products. I have a couple of friends who have the Pilot classic set up, some with Salomon, some with Atomic. (as far as I can tell, the mechanism is exactly the same?) These friends claim that they really like the Pilot classic binding, that it is an improvement for skiing (but not a huge improvement, and who knows, they may just be imagining it) BUT They have also had problems with the binding when it's cold and therefore use older classic skis with Profil bindings (with modified bumper) when it's cold. In other words, they have resigned themselves to needing different skis and bindings when it's cold and either need two excellent, front line pair each with a different binding, or must use their older, less desirable skis when it's cold. These are serious recreational skiers who do race, but do not own a "quiver" of skis. Like most of us, they have their "best" skis and some older "rock" skis. We live in a cold climate, and it's common to do quite a bit of skiing in temps below -5 F. This to me is an unacceptable and a major failure for Salomon that people should be concerned about. It has led me to a theory of why Salomon developed the Pilot... it was not for improved performance. There may or may not be improved perforemance, but even if there is, I'll bet it's not significant at all. The change was to adjust to the Skiathalon or Pursuit format. By making both skate and classic bindings and boots Pilot, they are now fully compatable, like NNN has always been. The company can then market a combi boot that with a Pilot sole which can be used with both the skate and classic binding. In the old system, skiers had to use a Profil skate binding with their Salomon combi boots. I'm sure the company was embarrassed by this deficiency. The Pilot classic may be a better situation for the limited number of skiers who need or desire that feature, who have a quiver of good skis and therefore can dedicate some to cold weather/Profile use, or who only ski, race or train in above 0F temps. But it is a downgrade for the rest of us who need a reliable cold weather classic binding and an unacceptable technology failure. This is almost enough to make me switch to NNN when I next need boots. It just ****es me off. |
#5
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Pilot Classic - Why
I have used the Pilot classic bindings for some of last season and all
of this (358km of classic so far this season, I keep a spreadsheet which makes me a nerd, but a nordic nerd!). I ski in western Colorado at an elevation of 10,000+ feet. This has been a cold and snowy winter in the Rockies with 7 feet of snow on our trails. Anyway, I have had near perfect performance from the bindings. Once or twice, the hook unclicked from the back bar, but hooked right back in. I have read that Kikkan Randall had some problems in a race. They seem like a nice binding, but I would live with the bumper Profils if I had it to do over again. The difference is subtle. The new Salomon boots, on the other hand, are wonderful and worth every penny. What are you all using for a binding lubricant? |
#6
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Pilot Classic - Why
The new Salomon boots, on the
other hand, are wonderful and worth every penny. That's a point. The skate "slab" boots are perfect for me. A complete new world from what Salomon had proposed up to now. |
#7
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Pilot Classic - Why
Seems like the main problem with the classic pilot is that the spring gets
loaded with snow. I wonder if salomon has considered replacing that with a 'rubber band' of sorts. You wouldn't be able to adjust the tension as easily but I wonder how many people actually adjust that after the first few times skiing. Andrew Gerlach from Salomon/Subaru Factory Team replied to to an earlier thread regardding pilot classic. Sorry you are having problems with the bindings. 1) Salomon Pilot classic bindings benefits from lubrication much as a bike chain does. We suggest you spray the hook and the internals (pull the hook out and spray into binding) with silicon spray. Do this every 500 km. 2) We have a new insert called the Pilot Classic Protector that is a free part available to our retailers goes under the rear portion of the binding that incases the spring. It takes about 2 minutes to install. If your shop does not have them they can order them from Salomon customer service. 3) Make sure the boots and bindings are as clean as possible before you start skiing. If they start clean the stay very snow free. If they start with snow then snow builds up. If you have further question please call or email. Andrew Gerlach Salomon Nordic Factory Team www.enjoywinter.com Dave wrote in message ... The new Salomon boots, on the other hand, are wonderful and worth every penny. That's a point. The skate "slab" boots are perfect for me. A complete new world from what Salomon had proposed up to now. |
#8
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Pilot Classic - Why
I'm not clear what that Protector Gerlach mentions is, but it sounds
like it's meant to be a solution to snow build up around the spring. rm "Dave M-K" wrote: Seems like the main problem with the classic pilot is that the spring gets loaded with snow. I wonder if salomon has considered replacing that with a 'rubber band' of sorts. You wouldn't be able to adjust the tension as easily but I wonder how many people actually adjust that after the first few times skiing. Andrew Gerlach from Salomon/Subaru Factory Team replied to to an earlier thread regardding pilot classic. Sorry you are having problems with the bindings. 2) We have a new insert called the Pilot Classic Protector that is a free part available to our retailers goes under the rear portion of the binding that incases the spring. It takes about 2 minutes to install. If your shop does not have them they can order them from Salomon customer service. |
#9
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Pilot Classic - Why
On Feb 20, 9:49*am, wrote:
I'm not clear what that Protector Gerlach mentions is, but it sounds like it's meant to be a solution to snow build up around the spring. Well, kids, I just held one of these in my hand so I'll tell y'all what it is! It is basically a plastic baseplate that the binding will snap into, sandwiching between the binding and the top sheet of the ski. It is supposed to limit the snow and moisture from forming in the spring and strap. One of my teammates went to the Keski and hear is what she said to me - "I asked the Salomon guys at the Gatineau Loppet on the weekend and they told me that they're now providing a white plastic piece that fits underneath the binding and supposedly prevents the moisture / ice buildup. They instructed all their retailers to install these with the bindings at the end of the season last year when they realized there were big problems. So the shops in Ottawa are all doing this, and told me it has solved all the problems .. of course this was the first time I'd ever heard anybody admit there was a problem in the first place." She was able to get several from the shops in Ottawa, but went on to say any "high-end" shop should have these. My shop does not appear to know about these, however. - Bob |
#10
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Quote:
I don't think your assumption of creating the pilot classic binding just for the pursuit is quite accurate considering the old pilot skate boots and pursuit boots were compatable with the profile bindings. The carbon and race skate boots have been used in pursuits with the profile bindings no problem. The new bindings allow you to adjust the tension in the binding which can be useful especially during sprints and it has removed the tension in the toe that the old profile bindings caused. I enjoy the new bindings and as long as you keep them clean and lubricate them once in a while the bindings works perfectly. I don't see how you can complain about some simple maintainance ever so often... |
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