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Going off trail



 
 
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  #61  
Old December 13th 06, 06:25 AM posted to rec.skiing.backcountry,rec.skiing.nordic
Martin Thornquist
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Posts: 14
Default Going off trail

[ ]

On the knee issue, tele basically out?


Not neccessarily. I have bad knees, I don't dare to run much and going
steep downhill on foot (esp. with a backpack) can be hell, but tele
works fine for some reason. YMMV, of course.


Martin
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  #62  
Old December 13th 06, 02:08 PM posted to rec.skiing.backcountry,rec.skiing.nordic
Peter Clinch
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Posts: 48
Default Going off trail

DL wrote:

On the knee issue, tele basically out?


Depends exactly what the problem is: "bad knees" covers a lot of bases.
Mine are pretty dodgy but I find for my particular values of "pretty
dodgy" that tele is a Good Thing, because the stress goes onto the
supporting muscles rather than piling impacts straight through the
joint. So my knees really like tele (my thighs want to explode, but
that's a different matter!).

I ski on non-release bindings too (though they're Riva 3s, so they might
release if push comes to shove, but I'm not doing anything too extreme).

For a lot of knee problems, they get a lot smaller if one works on
building the support muscles. High cadence cycling and skating (skis,
blades or wheels) are all good for that, and thighs that can crush
coconuts will be a big help for tele.

Pete.
--
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  #63  
Old December 13th 06, 04:41 PM posted to rec.skiing.backcountry,rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
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Posts: 565
Default Going off trail

I've found with tele that my bad knee that lacks some cartilege and ACL
support gets painful and swells in short order, between the two its
movement blocked. Perhaps if my technique were better it might be less
of a problem, or at least the window before pain longer, but finding
out is effectively impossible. It can be a painful in groomed area,
such as on corners, but the pressures are much less with lighter skinny
skis and hills that aren't so steep.

rm

Bob Lee wrote:

wrote:

What exactly is randonee? Knees have been a problem for me in tele or
downhill gear.


Randonnee is also known as Alpine Touring (AT) and merely refers to a
binding set up that allows a free heel for touring yet can lock the heel
down for skiing downhill.

ObAncientJoke: The word randonnee is believed to have its roots in the
French phrase for "I can't telemark." badabump

Randonnee isn't likely to help with your knee problems other than you
are likely not to be pounding hard snow or moguls when alpine touring.

hth,
Bob

"DL" wrote:


"Booker C. Bense"

T2x is a all rounder boot meant for today's wide telemark skis
and way too stiff/heavy for Outtabounds skis. I would not put
anybody with dodgy knees in that kind of boot unless they had
releasable bindings.

On the knee issue, tele basically out? Maybe better off on either heavy
turning gear with releasable, or very light NNN on the tracks, just to
minimize knee stress? Forget tele and go randonee? The whole reason for me
to get some light gear is those knees of hers - so we can have something to
do together w/o the steeps, speeds and crowds of the resorts. She's pretty
novice in her abilities as well, and probably won't be putting in the high
number of days needed to get good at something that is difficult to learn.
General thoughts?

I'd say Garmont Excursion would be a much
better choice for plastic boots.

I was considering, but noticed T2x was less than 1 lb heavier. Seemed ~1 lb
was worth it for to get the extra support and ability to drive larger skis.
But I the points you guys are making.

The reality is that turning skis
of that light weight and narrowness takes learning some different
techniques, boots can help, but too stiff a boot just doesn't do
much good.

Makes sense. I guess we just need to demo some gear.

I think you might be happier with the Boundless, it's light
enough for kick'n'glide fun outside of set tracks, performs
reasonably well in light powder and will stand up to a beefier
boot.

Outtabounds too light for T2x, got it.

Thanks,



  #65  
Old December 15th 06, 02:42 PM posted to rec.skiing.backcountry,rec.skiing.nordic
Booker C. Bense
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Posts: 2
Default Going off trail

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article , DL wrote:

"Booker C. Bense"

T2x is a all rounder boot meant for today's wide telemark skis
and way too stiff/heavy for Outtabounds skis. I would not put
anybody with dodgy knees in that kind of boot unless they had
releasable bindings.


On the knee issue, tele basically out? Maybe better off on either heavy
turning gear with releasable, or very light NNN on the tracks, just to
minimize knee stress? Forget tele and go randonee? The whole reason for me
to get some light gear is those knees of hers - so we can have something to
do together w/o the steeps, speeds and crowds of the resorts. She's pretty
novice in her abilities as well, and probably won't be putting in the high
number of days needed to get good at something that is difficult to learn.
General thoughts?


Lightweight AT gear and waxless skis can be a lot of fun, but it
is a pricy solution. I have a lot of fun on short turny waxless
skis ( Alpina Xterrain ) with Silvretta X500 bindings and Dynafit
tlt4 boots. Not the lightest setup, but easy to switch modes and
plenty of control. Dynafit bindings would be even lighter, but I
think the ease of switching modes compensates for the weight
disadvantage. ( A simple push w/the pole vs. complicated bending
and pole leverage ).

Others have answered the knee question.


I'd say Garmont Excursion would be a much
better choice for plastic boots.


I was considering, but noticed T2x was less than 1 lb heavier. Seemed ~1 lb
was worth it for to get the extra support and ability to drive larger skis.
But I the points you guys are making.


_ It's not just the weight, but the amount of effort needed to
flex the bellows. Especially when new the T2x will overpower the
ski when turning and be a lot of unnecessary work when touring.
This kind of gear works best when all 3 components are in
balance.

_ Booker C. Bense


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