Going off trail

Booker C. Bense
Here's a web page that
discusses the various options and choices for skis that are
called "Backcountry Skis" at least in the USA.

http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/Dirt...r/bc-skis.html

If you just want to get out in the woods, take a serious look at
snowshoes.

Ah, but this just reflects the fact that decent skis are largely
unknown of in America!

Snowshoes are specialized gear that can in no way compete with
proper skis in overall mobility or utility in the woods (never
mind fun).

No, no, I'm not entirely serious . This is just my yearly
effort to point out that (modern) forest/utility/bc/military
skis suited for off-track soft-snow conditions actually do exist.
Just not in the US, for some curious reason.

Kurt Knisely wrote
Ken Roberts wrote
Backcountry telemarking is over. Except in Norway.
And Utah and Colorado and Idaho and Montana...

I'll gladly defer to others for Colorado, Idaho, etc.

Ski partners living in Utah are my main source of examples of telemarkers
switching to AT.

There's way more Alpine Touring gear being sold in Salt Lake City shops
nowadays than could be found 20 years ago. (That's where I bought my Scarpa
F1 boots)

A bit surprising, since the snow and terrain in the central Wasatch are
pretty "friendly" for telemarking. Probably explains why there's so many
"die-hards" still there.

And having a job in Salt Lake is a real easy way to get into enjoying lots
of lift-served "powder mornings" -- and I'm pretty convinced that
lift-served skiing is a key driver of telemarking.

Ken

"Ken Roberts" wrote in
:

Kurt Knisely wrote
Ken Roberts wrote
Backcountry telemarking is over. Except in Norway.
And Utah and Colorado and Idaho and Montana...

I'll gladly defer to others for Colorado, Idaho, etc.

Ski partners living in Utah are my main source of examples of
telemarkers switching to AT.

There's way more Alpine Touring gear being sold in Salt Lake City
shops nowadays than could be found 20 years ago. (That's where I
bought my Scarpa F1 boots)

I agree (although I wasn't here 20 years go). Quite a few are crossing
over from tele to randonee bindings. The obviously "can't tele".


A bit surprising, since the snow and terrain in the central Wasatch
are pretty "friendly" for telemarking. Probably explains why there's
so many "die-hards" still there.

My only point. I just bought some new Alico double-leather boots last
Spring (tired of cold feet in my other thin leathers). There's quite a
bit of light to mid-weight touring around...I'm East of the Wasatch.


And having a job in Salt Lake is a real easy way to get into enjoying
lots of lift-served "powder mornings" -- and I'm pretty convinced that
lift-served skiing is a key driver of telemarking.

SLC job? Not if I can help it! And yes, most will agree that tele is
marketed to the in-bounds crowd. Very few releasable tele bindings is
one indicator. I'm very surprised that Black Diamond can't
develop/market a releasable tele binding? Voile still has theirs (both
in the SLC valley). I use plastic Garmonts and 7tms on my "heavy"
setup...w/ AT skis.

-K

"Christos Dimitrakakis"

Hello, I have to admit that I am extremely confused as to what type of ski
I would need to buy.

Me too.

Bravo on this thread. I guess it's a month old, though, and perhaps rehash
for those who know more about skiing.

But being largely of the same interests as OP, I have a few comments,
questions as well.

I'm leaning toward 2 pr skis. 1 light pair for similar desires as OP and
touring with GF + 1 heavy pair to basically replace alpine gear for 50/50
lift/backcountry sans GF. She has little interest in the steeps.

For light pair, thinking T2x or similar boot. Seems like a good compromise,
plus get extra control to make up for lack of talent, interest in Tele turn.
My take is as time goes on, I can drive a lot of different boards with these
things. Maybe start off with an Outtabounds class ski for basically cross
country skiing off track but on trail, and okay with survival and
switchbacking to get down the bigger hills. Thinking Indian Peaks, RMNP,
etc. with the GF in Jan-early March type snow. Not looking for the steepest
lines. She's a novice, and had ACL repaired last year due to crash at
Beaver Creak. Looking for exercise, clean air, lack of crowds, nothing
extreme. Would like to feel the lightness, kick-glide I had XC skiing on
track skis in MN growing up, but now I live in the mountains. As we get
refined, can tune in on the optimal boards for our interests.

T2x + Outtabounds/Sbound type ski a good start?

For the heavy side, I feel like I can cover the rest of my interests with a
Scarpa TT type boot on medium to heavy AT bindings. I've owned AT gear in
past, but they were very flexible, poor performance (Koflac Artis Vario +
light foam core skis ~90mm wide). So I would like to get something a lot
stiffer. DIN 10-11 or so. No GF. Teledaddy, Work Stynx, etc. I guess I'm
one of a growing class of perhaps despised types who enjoy lifts but don't
enjoy crowds - the ones they are opening the BC gates for at the resorts.
Okay with 2-3 runs a day, waddling around in snow seeking that untracked
line a few valleys away. Really liked Silverton Mt, would like to try
Commando Run to Vail, Red Mountain Pass, Berthoud, etc. Thinking March to
end of season, maybe kicking steps up cols, etc. Looking to also demo
Garmont Megaride, GFit, etc.

Comments there?

Thanks,

- DL

DL wrote:

I'm leaning toward 2 pr skis.

Only 2? it's just not trying... ;-)

1 light pair for similar desires as OP and
touring with GF + 1 heavy pair to basically replace alpine gear for 50/50
lift/backcountry sans GF. She has little interest in the steeps.

For light pair, thinking T2x or similar boot.

T2X may well be light for a serious downhill tele boot, but it's /way/
over the top for "light cross country" where there isn't steep stuff.
T4s or Excursions are on the chunky side for this line of work, and
they're a fair bit less chunky than T2s. I would say any plastic tele
boot is possibly over the top for this line of work.

Seems like a good compromise,
plus get extra control to make up for lack of talent, interest in Tele turn.
My take is as time goes on, I can drive a lot of different boards with these
things.

True, but every time you travel kick 'n stick you'll pay for that
downhill flexibility. Why not wait until time goes on? You may find
that boots have gone on as well, and in the meantime pay a lot less and
travel in more comfort.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

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In article , DL wrote:

"Christos Dimitrakakis"


For light pair, thinking T2x or similar boot. Seems like a good compromise,
plus get extra control to make up for lack of talent, interest in Tele turn.
My take is as time goes on, I can drive a lot of different boards with these
things. Maybe start off with an Outtabounds class ski for basically cross
country skiing off track but on trail, and okay with survival and
switchbacking to get down the bigger hills. Thinking Indian Peaks, RMNP,
etc. with the GF in Jan-early March type snow. Not looking for the steepest
lines. She's a novice, and had ACL repaired last year due to crash at
Beaver Creak. Looking for exercise, clean air, lack of crowds, nothing
extreme. Would like to feel the lightness, kick-glide I had XC skiing on
track skis in MN growing up, but now I live in the mountains. As we get
refined, can tune in on the optimal boards for our interests.

T2x + Outtabounds/Sbound type ski a good start?

T2x is a all rounder boot meant for today's wide telemark skis
and way too stiff/heavy for Outtabounds skis. I would not put
anybody with dodgy knees in that kind of boot unless they had
releasable bindings. I'd say Garmont Excursion would be a much
better choice for plastic boots. The reality is that turning skis
of that light weight and narrowness takes learning some different
techniques, boots can help, but too stiff a boot just doesn't do
much good. There is a limit to what a person[1] can ski with those
skis and it has way more to do with that person's technique and
strength than what boot they are using. A boot of the T2X weight
will just talk all the fun out of kick'n'glide with a very slight
advantage in turning power.

I think you might be happier with the Boundless, it's light
enough for kick'n'glide fun outside of set tracks, performs
reasonably well in light powder and will stand up to a beefier
boot.

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]- Some people's limit is quite high, but you have to realize
that there will be a limit for you.

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"Booker C. Bense"

T2x is a all rounder boot meant for today's wide telemark skis
and way too stiff/heavy for Outtabounds skis. I would not put
anybody with dodgy knees in that kind of boot unless they had
releasable bindings.

On the knee issue, tele basically out? Maybe better off on either heavy
turning gear with releasable, or very light NNN on the tracks, just to
minimize knee stress? Forget tele and go randonee? The whole reason for me
to get some light gear is those knees of hers - so we can have something to
do together w/o the steeps, speeds and crowds of the resorts. She's pretty
novice in her abilities as well, and probably won't be putting in the high
number of days needed to get good at something that is difficult to learn.
General thoughts?

I'd say Garmont Excursion would be a much
better choice for plastic boots.

I was considering, but noticed T2x was less than 1 lb heavier. Seemed ~1 lb
was worth it for to get the extra support and ability to drive larger skis.
But I the points you guys are making.

The reality is that turning skis
of that light weight and narrowness takes learning some different
techniques, boots can help, but too stiff a boot just doesn't do
much good.

Makes sense. I guess we just need to demo some gear.

I think you might be happier with the Boundless, it's light
enough for kick'n'glide fun outside of set tracks, performs
reasonably well in light powder and will stand up to a beefier
boot.

Outtabounds too light for T2x, got it.

Thanks,

What exactly is randonee? Knees have been a problem for me in tele or
downhill gear.

rm

"DL" wrote:


"Booker C. Bense"

T2x is a all rounder boot meant for today's wide telemark skis
and way too stiff/heavy for Outtabounds skis. I would not put
anybody with dodgy knees in that kind of boot unless they had
releasable bindings.

On the knee issue, tele basically out? Maybe better off on either heavy
turning gear with releasable, or very light NNN on the tracks, just to
minimize knee stress? Forget tele and go randonee? The whole reason for me
to get some light gear is those knees of hers - so we can have something to
do together w/o the steeps, speeds and crowds of the resorts. She's pretty
novice in her abilities as well, and probably won't be putting in the high
number of days needed to get good at something that is difficult to learn.
General thoughts?

I'd say Garmont Excursion would be a much
better choice for plastic boots.

I was considering, but noticed T2x was less than 1 lb heavier. Seemed ~1 lb
was worth it for to get the extra support and ability to drive larger skis.
But I the points you guys are making.

The reality is that turning skis
of that light weight and narrowness takes learning some different
techniques, boots can help, but too stiff a boot just doesn't do
much good.

Makes sense. I guess we just need to demo some gear.

I think you might be happier with the Boundless, it's light
enough for kick'n'glide fun outside of set tracks, performs
reasonably well in light powder and will stand up to a beefier
boot.

Outtabounds too light for T2x, got it.

Thanks,

"Ken Roberts" wrote
Backcountry telemarking is over.
Except in Norway.

Kurt Knisely wrote:
And Utah and Colorado and Idaho and Montana...

Oh, don't forget Vail.

Ed Huesers
Http://www.grandshelters.com

[ ]

On the knee issue, tele basically out?

Not neccessarily. I have bad knees, I don't dare to run much and going
steep downhill on foot (esp. with a backpack) can be hell, but tele
works fine for some reason. YMMV, of course.


Martin
--
"An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."
-Paul Graham, On Lisp