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#1
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DSQs
Checking the results of the 30k Sovereign Lake (BC) Loppet, I was surprised
to find someone DSQ in the results. In a citizens' race such as that, what are typical ways a person might be disqualified? Jim |
#2
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1) Skating in a classic race. I was helping to officiate a local race a
few weeks back and several people were caught skating up a hill. 2) If it is a multi-loop course - missing a loop.Quite a few were disqualified at the Keskinada classic because weather had forced a modification of the course and people got very confused. Last minute changes can leave everybody confused. |
#3
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"cpella" wrote in message
oups.com... 1) Skating in a classic race. I was helping to officiate a local race a few weeks back and several people were caught skating up a hill. 2) If it is a multi-loop course - missing a loop.Quite a few were disqualified at the Keskinada classic because weather had forced a modification of the course and people got very confused. Last minute changes can leave everybody confused. I figured on the missing a loop part. So if someone is skating up a hill they wouldn't get a warning first? I did a 10k last year and found myself skating through a turn in front of officials without penalty. Maybe it helped I was out of contention for a top spot... JF |
#4
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It's ok to take a skate step around a turn - that is perfectly
acceptable. These kids were offsetting up a hill rather obviously and one was seen one-skating on some flats. These were experienced age-group skiers so when the chief race official discussed it with their coaches everybody was in agreement. It's important to instill a sense of fair play in the kids. |
#5
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Chris writes:
"Quite a few were disqualified at the Keskinada classic because weather had forced a modification of the course and people got very confused. Last minute changes can leave everybody confused." From [short loop-really long loop], it got changed to [short-medium-short-medium], to avoid a lot of clutter from a big ice storm the day before. But they used good sense, and did not DSQ a whole bunch of people who made mistakes and skied it incorrectly, but actually did the whole distance. That includes the actual winner of the race, Phil Shaw. It's clear from the intermediate times that he ended up doing [short-short-medium-medium]. Independent evidence is that he came ripping past a whole bunch of us who had done a bit less than [short-medium] when he was already almost finished [short-short-medium]. Probably he had earlier got a gap during the first short loop (9km), and got waved through by mistake instead of directed to turn right. And he probably had a pretty bad time getting past all us slowpokes. If you look at those intermediate times, you can see that he ended up integrated with the lead group sometime after his [short-short-medium], and their (correct) [short-medium-short], so a few people probably got a bit of a surprise just then. And in the end, he put a minute or two on the rest for the win. I'll bet it would have been more than that if he'd done the correct course. And it probably would have been quite unjust to have DQed him, whatever the actual rules are. There are lots of other anomalous splits in those results. Best, Peter |
#6
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Quote:
It's not so sinister ... The fellow in question missed a turn and thus skied a shorter lap. He's happy to tell you that there's no way he could possibly have won by 10 minutes. I'm happy to tell you that the DQ'd skier is a great guy, a beautiful classic skier, and was only dissappointed that the course wasn't as well marked as it could've been. The people at SovLk do a great job, so I'm not quibbling with their efforts, either. Just trying to clear up the mystery DQ. |
#7
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"Mark Waechter" wrote ...
It's not so sinister ... The fellow in question missed a turn and thus skied a shorter lap. He's happy to tell you that there's no way he could possibly have won by 10 minutes. I'm happy to tell you that the DQ'd skier is a great guy, a beautiful classic skier, and was only dissappointed that the course wasn't as well marked as it could've been. The people at SovLk do a great job, so I'm not quibbling with their efforts, either. Just trying to clear up the mystery DQ. Certainly, and I didn't intend to imply sinister, I was just surprised to see it and curious about different possible DQs. I could just as easily have left out the name of the race. Didn't wish to single anyone out. JF |
#8
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I have been involved in officiating BC loppets 3 times when there have been
disqualifications. One involved a skier who took the wrong (shorter) course even though several hundred other people had no problem following the markings. I think he had skied the race a previous year when a different course was used and did not believe the trail markings that were sending him a different way. He readily admitted his error. Another involved a skier who changed skis half way through a classic race. The course passed through the start/finish area half way through the race when it finished one course and started on a different one. Many skiers were having trouble with their wax wearing off and one skier stopped and changed into another waxed pair of skis that he had left leaning on a fence. He then moved from 7th to first place as he passed skiers who struggled on with their worn wax. He was disqualified for changing skis. He thought that if there was no ski marking he would be OK, but the rules clearly state that you can only change one ski and even then you have to show that the replaced ski was broken. The seven skiers he passed would have been upset if he wasn't disqualified for taking an unfair and illegal advantage. He was a very experienced competitive skier who should have known the rules. The third skier that was disqualified was for skating in a classic race. He was a contender for the win and skated up most of the steep uphills. He was spotted by course marshals and also reported by the three or four other skiers in the lead group in his age class. At his level of skiing he was expected to know the difference between herringbone and offset skating. I suspect that he missed the wax and skating up the hills was the only way he could stay with the leaders. On many other cases there have been verbal warnings given to people who used a "gliding herringbone" or repeatedly skated from one classic track to another. These were all cases where it was reasonable to assume the skier did not know any better and where the overall results were not affected. Scott "Jim Flom" wrote in message news:0MLTf.5012$nQ6.3439@clgrps13... "Mark Waechter" wrote ... It's not so sinister ... The fellow in question missed a turn and thus skied a shorter lap. He's happy to tell you that there's no way he could possibly have won by 10 minutes. I'm happy to tell you that the DQ'd skier is a great guy, a beautiful classic skier, and was only dissappointed that the course wasn't as well marked as it could've been. The people at SovLk do a great job, so I'm not quibbling with their efforts, either. Just trying to clear up the mystery DQ. Certainly, and I didn't intend to imply sinister, I was just surprised to see it and curious about different possible DQs. I could just as easily have left out the name of the race. Didn't wish to single anyone out. JF |
#9
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Scott wrote:
"On many other cases there have been verbal warnings given to people who ...repeatedly skated from one classic track to another." I assume this is with tracks more-or-less right beside each other, so it would just be one skate push out of the track, then another one on the other leg into the other track. How is the rule against doing this 'too often' phrased? Must be quite a bit of judgement involved. I've often wondered about this while racing, and also whether the advantage was more the slight speed boost, or more the temporary muscle relief. Best, Peter |
#10
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I also wonder, because they sure switch lanes a lot in the Swedish
Vasaloppet. Perhaps there is some poling involved too, which leads to the warning. We had a DQ at a Yosemite race about 10 years ago against someone who was marathon skating the downhill and flats, one ski in and one out of the tracks. Gene "Peter H." wrote: Scott wrote: "On many other cases there have been verbal warnings given to people who ...repeatedly skated from one classic track to another." I assume this is with tracks more-or-less right beside each other, so it would just be one skate push out of the track, then another one on the other leg into the other track. How is the rule against doing this 'too often' phrased? Must be quite a bit of judgement involved. I've often wondered about this while racing, and also whether the advantage was more the slight speed boost, or more the temporary muscle relief. Best, Peter |
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