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#61
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pigo wrote: "lal_truckee" wrote in message ... I believe the resorts are short sighted, allowing boarding at all. You think any of these doofusses will be dedicated boarders when they're 40, 50, even 60? I bet a way lower percentage remain active than skiers remain active. If there were no boarding allowed, a fair percentage of current boarders would be skiers; I don't know if the curves cross, but my feeling is long term the resorts would have more patrons, not fewer. This probably won't do anything for your argument but I agree with you. It's the Brittany Spears of snow. Too teeny bopper and "trendy" to ever have a chance to be classic. Let's hope so anyway. What astounds me is that people are adamant that *all* resorts allow toys. There's 4 in the US (probably the world) dedicated to skiing. What's the big deal to them? pigo There's something I can agree with. I like the idea of having a place that boarder can't ride. I get a kick out of telling Alta stories to my boarder friends and then saying "sorry, I guess you'll never know unless you get on some real gear". RAC |
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#62
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Bob wrote: "lal_truckee" wrote in message ... I believe the resorts are short sighted, allowing boarding at all. You think any of these doofusses will be dedicated boarders when they're 40, 50, even 60? I bet a way lower percentage remain active than skiers remain active. If there were no boarding allowed, a fair percentage of current boarders would be skiers; I don't know if the curves cross, but my feeling is long term the resorts would have more patrons, not fewer. Sorry to trash your theory, but I am not the only one who took up boarding when I was over 50. Remove your bigot blinders and you might start to see the grey and white hair I see on boarders all the time. Many of them are former skiers that decided they needed new challenges. It's kind of sad to see all these poor abused skiers whine about how oppressed they are by having to share the mountains. Get over it and grow up. The resorts build terrain parks because they know that snowboarders are saving their butts from the declining popularity of skiing. Bob Sorry, Bob. Skiing is not declining in popularity. Skiing visits are flat, but not in decline. The growth is in boarding (for now) and that is one of the reasons why resorts cater to boarding via parks. RAC |
#63
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Mary Malmros wrote: lal_truckee wrote: [snip] I believe the resorts are short sighted, allowing boarding at all. You think any of these doofusses will be dedicated boarders when they're 40, 50, even 60? I bet a way lower percentage remain active than skiers remain active. Well, obviously it's too soon to tell -- there are very few people who grew up with the sport and who are of an age to be bringing their kids into it. In skiing you see a lot of multi-generational skiing families -- by far, most of the kids I teach have at least one skiing parent (and the large majority of those have _two_ skiing parents). It's also my impression that their kids' involvement in the sport is strongly connected with their parents' contining skiing (although I think as a chicken-and-egg problem, it's kind of hard to sort out cause and effect). Very astute of you, Mary. That is another reason for catering to boarders via parks. Industry analysts call it the magnet market... get the young snowboarders to come and the folks and baby brothers/sisters will come too. |
#64
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"rosco" wrote in message ... Sorry, Bob. Skiing is not declining in popularity. Skiing visits are flat, but not in decline. The growth is in boarding (for now) and that is one of the reasons why resorts cater to boarding via parks. RAC Parks are not just for boarders these days. At Breck, you see as many skiers in the park as boarders. snoig |
#65
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rosco wrote: pigo wrote: "lal_truckee" wrote in message ... I believe the resorts are short sighted, allowing boarding at all. You think any of these doofusses will be dedicated boarders when they're 40, 50, even 60? I bet a way lower percentage remain active than skiers remain active. If there were no boarding allowed, a fair percentage of current boarders would be skiers; I don't know if the curves cross, but my feeling is long term the resorts would have more patrons, not fewer. This probably won't do anything for your argument but I agree with you. It's the Brittany Spears of snow. Too teeny bopper and "trendy" to ever have a chance to be classic. Let's hope so anyway. What astounds me is that people are adamant that *all* resorts allow toys. There's 4 in the US (probably the world) dedicated to skiing. What's the big deal to them? pigo There's something I can agree with. I like the idea of having a place that boarder can't ride. I get a kick out of telling Alta stories to my boarder friends and then saying "sorry, I guess you'll never know unless you get on some real gear". RAC I was thinking about this while skiing yesterday. Why don't they just have areas that are for boarders only? That way, they can run into each other and not into us. Plus, the resort will make money off the little trendiess. Martha |
#66
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AstroPax wrote in
: On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:57:40 -0800, "Bob" wrote: But the family still has fun together. Not on the slopes of Alta or DV. Bwhaaahaaha !!! ;) -Astro --- AstroPax Photography http://nikon.astropax.com --- This is unfortunately true. Unfortunate, in that Alta is one of the best places I've skied, but for the past 6 years we've been going on family ski vacations with 2 other families. Two of their kids (both girls, btw) have taken up boarding, so Alta is a no-go for us. Doesn't kill me, there are still plenty of excellent places to ski, but I would love to go back to Alta. I suppose I could dump my friends, or get them to dump their kids, but that's probably the wrong way to prioritize. Two of the three boys have also tried boarding, as has one of the dads, but it didn't stick for any of them. I suspect the dad will try again this year, as he is a pretty good skier, and always looking for new challenges. I'm not interested in trying - I'm not that athletic, and it took me a LONG time to get good at skiing. I'm not interested in being bad at something for the next 10 years. If I had better balance and learned faster I would try it. I love to see good boarders on a high speed carve on the groomed, or ripping up good lines in trees, powder, pillows. Reminds me of windsurfing, another sport that took a good decade to learn, but is great. dh |
#67
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David Harris wrote:
Unfortunate, in that Alta is one of the best places I've skied, but for the past 6 years we've been going on family ski vacations with 2 other families. Two of their kids (both girls, btw) have taken up boarding, so Alta is a no-go for us. Drop them off at Snowbird and buy yourself a Alta/Snowbird combined pass. Ski a little of each and meet up with them off and on during the day. |
#68
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"Black Metal Martha" wrote in message oups.com... I was thinking about this while skiing yesterday. Why don't they just have areas that are for boarders only? That way, they can run into each other and not into us. Plus, the resort will make money off the little trendiess. Because all of that talk about ski areas going broke without them is bull****. They couldn't support an existing area let alone build one. Plus I think a major part of the attraction is the trouble they can cause. pigo |
#69
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"David Harris" wrote in message ... AstroPax wrote in : On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:57:40 -0800, "Bob" wrote: But the family still has fun together. Not on the slopes of Alta or DV. Bwhaaahaaha !!! ;) -Astro --- AstroPax Photography http://nikon.astropax.com --- This is unfortunately true. Unfortunate? Unfortunate, in that Alta is one of the best places I've skied, but for the past 6 years we've been going on family ski vacations with 2 other families. Two of their kids (both girls, btw) have taken up boarding, so Alta is a no-go for us. Doesn't kill me, there are still plenty of excellent places to ski, but I would love to go back to Alta. I suppose I could dump my friends, or get them to dump their kids, but that's probably the wrong way to prioritize. So some odd hundreds of places to board isn't enough for you? *With* boarders Alta wouldn't be worth skiing. Nowhere is imo. Are you guys surgically connected or something? When I go on any kind of vacation with anyone there is always some choosing seperate things to do. Even with my wife. Two of the three boys have also tried boarding, as has one of the dads, but it didn't stick for any of them. I suspect the dad will try again this year, as he is a pretty good skier, and always looking for new challenges. I'm not interested in trying - I'm not that athletic, and it took me a LONG time to get good at skiing. I'm not interested in being bad at something for the next 10 years. I don't think you have to worry about that. It's a culture where the worse you are, the "better" you are. Plus there's only a couple a years between beginner and olympian. If I had better balance and learned faster I would try it. I love to see good boarders on a high speed carve on the groomed, or ripping up good lines in trees, powder, pillows. Reminds me of windsurfing, another sport that took a good decade to learn, but is great. Good line? I've never seen any snowboarder do anything besides go across the hill. If by good line you mean straight down, I could train a stump to do that. I can't comment much on windsurfing. I've only done it a couple of times but it was fun. How do you suppose boaters in general and real sailors in specific would react if windsurfers didn't obey the "rules of the road" or actively flaunted them just to be annoying? pigo |
#70
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I believe the resorts are short sighted, allowing boarding at all. You think any of these doofusses will be dedicated boarders when they're 40, 50, even 60? I bet a way lower percentage remain active than skiers remain active. If there were no boarding allowed, a fair percentage of current boarders would be skiers; I don't know if the curves cross, but my feeling is long term the resorts would have more patrons, not fewer. There's something I can agree with. I like the idea of having a place that boarder can't ride. I get a kick out of telling Alta stories to my boarder friends and then saying "sorry, I guess you'll never know unless you get on some real gear". RAC snip I was thinking about this while skiing yesterday. Why don't they just have areas that are for boarders only? That way, they can run into each other and not into us. Plus, the resort will make money off the little trendiess. Martha Martha, Unluckily the "trend" is that in the last ten years the industry has lost 40% of skiers (10.5 M vs 6.8M today) and boarding has increased 350% (1.8M vs 6.3M today). Twenty years ago there were about 13M skiers and no boarders - today pretty much the same number so you could argue no growth in the industry. New numbers from National Sporting Goods Association should be out soon for this year. I don't have access to to the Ski Area Association info anymore, but if I remember correctly boarders were on the snow more days/per year than skiers as well. In addition, it had some numbers on crossovers - skiers who also board and boarders who also ski but it ends up with about a 50/50 skier/boarder ratio today. In theory all the skiers who prefer not to have boarders around (AstroPax and pigo) should really pump up the DV's and Alta's to huge numbers. However, as AstroPax can tell you Alta lost numbers last year and is down this year as well (which I am sure he loves for turning more loops with no one around!). How many people do you know or helped pick up skiing this year? My big worry is with a zero growth in numbers of participants and the amount of $$ being plowed into resorts (I know most of it is real estate based now). Will the non "destination" resorts be able to make it into the next ten years? |
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