Lake Placid Report

Did the Lake Placid Loppet Saturday. Its a really tough race with
lots of vertical and STEEP uphills, but also a really fun trail.

Results at http://www.orda.org/04.loppet.50kF.htm

I skied a stupid race. Was tucked in behind my friend Andy Milne at
the 5K mark. Decided I could move up to the next skier who had gapped
up. Killed myself for 10K, then got dropped by both of them. I
recovered in the second half of the race for a decent result, but I was
5 minutes behind Andy and I feel I should be able to ski with him. But
hes done the race before and RESPECTED the course while I was
disrespectful and cocky. I paid the price for that kind of thinking.

The Lake Placid Loppet is small race with only 400 competitors in 4
events, but it was even smaller this year with the two week
postponement caused by frigid temperatures. The start of the 50K
freestyle was the most mellow mass start Ive ever been in. No one was
in a rush to attack such a demanding course.

My wife Barb Bradlee took second in her age group in the 25K skate with
an excellent time of 1:45. At the sumptuous banquet after the race (a
LOT better than Craftsbury!) there was a rich raffle. Ive been
coaching Barb on her raffling technique. I grabbed a nice backpack.
Then Barb won a Fischer race suit and matching hat. (Which will be for
sale soon as it is a good fit for a medium size man). Saturday night
Barb and I went to the movies and saw Miracle on Ice about the 1980
Olympic hockey team. Very fun to see it in Lake Placid. All in all
Id highly recommend this race. Tough but fun trails and a very
well-run event with great food and great prizes.

By the way, Pat Weaver won the Loppet. Before the race he told me he
thought Craftsbury last week week was the toughest classic race hed
ever done with the slow snow and big hills. (And hes been to
Olympics and World Champs, etc.).

Rob Bradlee

--- Rob Bradlee wrote:

Did the Lake Placid Loppet Saturday. Its a really tough race with
lots of vertical and STEEP uphills, but also a really fun trail.

Results at http://www.orda.org/04.loppet.50kF.htm

Note also the fine result of RSN frequent poster Ken Roberts. Darn
impressive to ski a 3 hr LP Loppet for his first 50K skate. Finally
got to meet him and his wife Sharon.

Rob

I did the race too, quite bit further back than Rob. I went a bit too
hard early, and my second lap was about 12 or 15 minutes slower than
the first. Plus I was so exhausted by that time I fell twice on pretty
slow corners which was a drag.

Results are online at http://www.orda.org/04.loppet.50kF.htm
Ken Roberts did the 50 skate for the first time and did quite well.

Definitely a smaller field this year. The conditions were great --
easy snow for technique but pretty fast, with stable temps all race,
or even slightly falling, with light snow. Really a pleasure to ski
in, though waxing for the classic race looked problematic.

It's also really nice they have pushed the start times back from the
8am/9am in the past. And, as usual the kids in the feed zones were
great.

Also, if anyone knows someone who skis on 180cm Firscher RCS skate
skis with Profil bindings of about 2001 vintageand was at the race,
as well as the 30th American Birkie as well, that person took the
wrong pair of skis -- a friend of mine (and Rob's) Brett Rutledge, who
has the same skis a little longer. Contact me via email at jt "at"
jt10000.com or call the Van Hoevenberg office for what to do.

JT

Looks like Doug Diehl was second overall in the 25k classic. Good show
(or place)!

Gene

Rob Bradlee wrote:

Did the Lake Placid Loppet Saturday. Its a really tough race with
lots of vertical and STEEP uphills, but also a really fun trail.

Results at http://www.orda.org/04.loppet.50kF.htm

It's a freakin' death march...........can't wait til next year! Congrats to
all LP survivors.

Mike........


"Rob Bradlee" wrote in message
o.com...

Did the Lake Placid Loppet Saturday. Its a really tough race with
lots of vertical and STEEP uphills, but also a really fun trail.

Results at http://www.orda.org/04.loppet.50kF.htm

I skied a stupid race. Was tucked in behind my friend Andy Milne at
the 5K mark. Decided I could move up to the next skier who had gapped
up. Killed myself for 10K, then got dropped by both of them. I
recovered in the second half of the race for a decent result, but I was
5 minutes behind Andy and I feel I should be able to ski with him. But
hes done the race before and RESPECTED the course while I was
disrespectful and cocky. I paid the price for that kind of thinking.

The Lake Placid Loppet is small race with only 400 competitors in 4
events, but it was even smaller this year with the two week
postponement caused by frigid temperatures. The start of the 50K
freestyle was the most mellow mass start Ive ever been in. No one was
in a rush to attack such a demanding course.

My wife Barb Bradlee took second in her age group in the 25K skate with
an excellent time of 1:45. At the sumptuous banquet after the race (a
LOT better than Craftsbury!) there was a rich raffle. Ive been
coaching Barb on her raffling technique. I grabbed a nice backpack.
Then Barb won a Fischer race suit and matching hat. (Which will be for
sale soon as it is a good fit for a medium size man). Saturday night
Barb and I went to the movies and saw Miracle on Ice about the 1980
Olympic hockey team. Very fun to see it in Lake Placid. All in all
Id highly recommend this race. Tough but fun trails and a very
well-run event with great food and great prizes.

By the way, Pat Weaver won the Loppet. Before the race he told me he
thought Craftsbury last week week was the toughest classic race hed
ever done with the slow snow and big hills. (And hes been to
Olympics and World Champs, etc.).

Rob Bradlee

I had a very fun day of skiing in my first skate marathon (and third skate
race of my life). Since I knew I wasn't going to win anything, I started at
the back and did the first 25 km as a pleasant tour. I waved to and thanked
all the volunteers that I passed -- chatted with the other racers -- and
made sure I skied slow enough up all the hills. I was thinking how happy I
was not to be a real racer and just enjoying skiing on a nice day with other
good skiers, including the chance to follow some athletic women. It was
also fun to be passing lots and lots of Classic skiers who had started
earlier.

After the first 25 km lap, I looked at my watch and saw that my time was
much faster than I expected. So I kept skiing the same way thru the big
hills. With less than 5 km to go, I picked up the pace, and immediately
dropped the guy who had been with me for the last hour. But then another
guy caught me on a downhill (I try to be careful on these, but I had fallen
a couple of times anyway).

I offered to let him pass me, but he said "No, you're faster on the
uphills". What a delightful compliment, I thought -- but maybe it was a
"psych", because then I started going harder up the hills, and soon I was
starting to hurt. I figured I had lost him, but then on the last gentle
uphill to the finish I looked back and saw him charging at me. Not being a
real racer, I sprinted for the line and held on to beat him.

Mike Wynn wrote
It's a freakin' death march...can't wait til
next year! Congrats to all LP survivors.

I was in a different race??

I accomplished my goal of making it up all the hills using offset V1 skate,
without herringbone or stopping to rest. Had enough fun to want to do it
again, and even got some competitive thrill at the end. Surprise Bonus: my
50K time was only 10% slower than guys like Mike Wynn and Rob Bradlee.

Ken

What Rob isn't telling the group (ever the good sport) is that he had really
slow skis for sections of the Loppet. I wasn't there, but I've had the
private report. It sounds like her did everything right, except for using
his best pair of skis with my Z40 grind. I was sorry to have to tell him
that it was most likely the grind. I haven't heard from Mike Wynn and don't
know whether he used his Z40s or what his experience was, but I can
confidently say that the Z40 saw its limitations on Saturday throughout New
England.

There is always a risk associated with advertising temperature ranges
associated with grinds. A grind like the Z40 is designed to operate at the
interface between the ski and the snow, not on the snow crystals themselves.
For this reason the real determining factor is the extent of the fluid layer
at the interface, not the temperature. Z40 runs really well at a moisture
deficit (not enough moisture at the interface to be ideal) or a moisture
balance (just "right"). As soon as you get into moisture surplus the grind
is insufficient.

The confusing thing is that there are times - like the 5/10K skate at
Nationals in Rumford - where the tamps are pretty high and the snow is by
all reports "wet", but the moisture layer at the interface is close to ideal
because of the consistency of the snowpack and its ability to reabsorb
moisture. The interesting thing about the snow we received in this last
storm on New England and New York is that it appears very dry, but carries a
huge amount of moisture which has almost nowhere to go. So even at colder
temps, and in snow that seems loose and dry, the moisture level at the
interface with the ski is too high for a structure like a Z40. This is
especially true where the snow is new and unworked. When it's been skied or
groomed a bunch the glaze on the top surface can form sort of a "shell" that
contains underlaying moisture and keeps it from moving up through the
snowpack.

Nick Brown (my assistant and co-conspirator on the grinder) tested a bunch
of structures at UVM carnival at Trapps on Saturday and found a modified Z40
with structure added by a german tractor box with a very fine tight cross
pattern to be extremely fast. I was running test skis at Grafton (southern
VT) on Saturday and found two somewhat experimental structures that I'm
working on to pick up from Z40 at the moisture balance/surplus to be very
good. Z40 alone was really sucky in both cases.

Anyway, I appreciate the good feedback and public recognition that Z40 has
received from folks like Rob and others. But we've all got to hear the bad
with the good in order to understand the limitations of any product.

The good news for me on Saturday was a call from Eli Brown (Fischer race
director) from the finish of the Boulder Mountain Tour to tell me that Z40
had won the race, thanks to Nathan Schultz and a pair of Eli's personal race
service skis that Nathan used. I'm extermely pleased with the Z40 - it's a
world-class grind for what it does. As I told Chris Hall (USST service
chief) at Nationals, I'll be really happy when I can come up with something
as good on the slightly wetter side. Chris said "me too!"

Zach
http://www.engineeredtuning.net/




"Rob Bradlee" wrote in message
o.com...

Did the Lake Placid Loppet Saturday. Its a really tough race with
lots of vertical and STEEP uphills, but also a really fun trail.

Results at http://www.orda.org/04.loppet.50kF.htm

I skied a stupid race. Was tucked in behind my friend Andy Milne at
the 5K mark. Decided I could move up to the next skier who had gapped
up. Killed myself for 10K, then got dropped by both of them. I
recovered in the second half of the race for a decent result, but I was
5 minutes behind Andy and I feel I should be able to ski with him. But
hes done the race before and RESPECTED the course while I was
disrespectful and cocky. I paid the price for that kind of thinking.

The Lake Placid Loppet is small race with only 400 competitors in 4
events, but it was even smaller this year with the two week
postponement caused by frigid temperatures. The start of the 50K
freestyle was the most mellow mass start Ive ever been in. No one was
in a rush to attack such a demanding course.

My wife Barb Bradlee took second in her age group in the 25K skate with
an excellent time of 1:45. At the sumptuous banquet after the race (a
LOT better than Craftsbury!) there was a rich raffle. Ive been
coaching Barb on her raffling technique. I grabbed a nice backpack.
Then Barb won a Fischer race suit and matching hat. (Which will be for
sale soon as it is a good fit for a medium size man). Saturday night
Barb and I went to the movies and saw Miracle on Ice about the 1980
Olympic hockey team. Very fun to see it in Lake Placid. All in all
Id highly recommend this race. Tough but fun trails and a very
well-run event with great food and great prizes.

By the way, Pat Weaver won the Loppet. Before the race he told me he
thought Craftsbury last week week was the toughest classic race hed
ever done with the slow snow and big hills. (And hes been to
Olympics and World Champs, etc.).

Rob Bradlee

--- Zachary Caldwell wrote:
What Rob isn't telling the group (ever the good sport) is that he had
really
slow skis for sections of the Loppet. I wasn't there, but I've had
the
private report. It sounds like her did everything right, except for
using
his best pair of skis with my Z40 grind. I was sorry to have to tell

Well, this is what comes from having a day job, coaching at night, and
not enough time to wax. If I was doing things right I would have waxed
up my other skis with a different grind and done some experimenting.
But I only had time to wax on Wed. and Thursday...

of structures at UVM carnival at Trapps on Saturday and found a
modified Z40
with structure added by a german tractor box with a very fine tight
cross
pattern to be extremely fast. I was running test skis at Grafton

German Tractor Box? Now you know you have to explain what the heck
that is (and where everyone can buy one :). And web sites with
photos!

Rob
P.S. Just to be clear - the Z40 ran beautifully for all but 10K of the
course. In the second half when the trail was well-skied in I was
cruising past folks on the downhills.



=====
Rob Bradlee
Java, C++, Perl, XML, OOAD, Linux, and Unix Training

I skied R2.3, Zach......I was unable to tell any glide difference between
R2.3 and Z40 in morning testing but the snowpack was pretty darn wet. I went
with the R grind for that reason but it sqaulled a half inch or so right
after the race start and made me wish I'd skied the Z40. The new snow made
the skate lane pathetically slow and the group I was in (Rob included) did a
LOT of dp and marathon in the classic track! I think many had brutal glide
in the skate lane for the first lap and even tho it was skied in for second
lap I still spent every meter of flat or downhill in the classic tracks!
Given that Rob's skies were slow, I guess I made the right ski choice but
I'm not sure there was a magic bullet for those conditions. R2.3 seems to me
like it should have been the ''default'' grind but my skis didn't really
seem any faster or slower than anyone I spent any time skiing with.
It was a tough go!

I sufffered from quadriceps cramps on the second lap so bad at times I was
sure I'd need a medi-vac chopper. Was reduced to a crawl up the hills but
still stumbled in for a time pretty typical of myself.

Why don't you bring the truck up next year and give the ''death march'' a go
yourself?!........

Mike.......


"Zachary Caldwell" wrote in message
...
What Rob isn't telling the group (ever the good sport) is that he had
really
slow skis for sections of the Loppet. I wasn't there, but I've had the
private report. It sounds like her did everything right, except for using
his best pair of skis with my Z40 grind. I was sorry to have to tell him
that it was most likely the grind. I haven't heard from Mike Wynn and
don't
know whether he used his Z40s or what his experience was, but I can
confidently say that the Z40 saw its limitations on Saturday throughout
New
England.

There is always a risk associated with advertising temperature ranges
associated with grinds. A grind like the Z40 is designed to operate at the
interface between the ski and the snow, not on the snow crystals
themselves.
For this reason the real determining factor is the extent of the fluid
layer
at the interface, not the temperature. Z40 runs really well at a moisture
deficit (not enough moisture at the interface to be ideal) or a moisture
balance (just "right"). As soon as you get into moisture surplus the grind
is insufficient.

The confusing thing is that there are times - like the 5/10K skate at
Nationals in Rumford - where the tamps are pretty high and the snow is by
all reports "wet", but the moisture layer at the interface is close to
ideal
because of the consistency of the snowpack and its ability to reabsorb
moisture. The interesting thing about the snow we received in this last
storm on New England and New York is that it appears very dry, but carries
a
huge amount of moisture which has almost nowhere to go. So even at colder
temps, and in snow that seems loose and dry, the moisture level at the
interface with the ski is too high for a structure like a Z40. This is
especially true where the snow is new and unworked. When it's been skied
or
groomed a bunch the glaze on the top surface can form sort of a "shell"
that
contains underlaying moisture and keeps it from moving up through the
snowpack.

Nick Brown (my assistant and co-conspirator on the grinder) tested a bunch
of structures at UVM carnival at Trapps on Saturday and found a modified
Z40
with structure added by a german tractor box with a very fine tight cross
pattern to be extremely fast. I was running test skis at Grafton (southern
VT) on Saturday and found two somewhat experimental structures that I'm
working on to pick up from Z40 at the moisture balance/surplus to be very
good. Z40 alone was really sucky in both cases.

Anyway, I appreciate the good feedback and public recognition that Z40 has
received from folks like Rob and others. But we've all got to hear the bad
with the good in order to understand the limitations of any product.

The good news for me on Saturday was a call from Eli Brown (Fischer race
director) from the finish of the Boulder Mountain Tour to tell me that Z40
had won the race, thanks to Nathan Schultz and a pair of Eli's personal
race
service skis that Nathan used. I'm extermely pleased with the Z40 - it's a
world-class grind for what it does. As I told Chris Hall (USST service
chief) at Nationals, I'll be really happy when I can come up with
something
as good on the slightly wetter side. Chris said "me too!"

Zach
http://www.engineeredtuning.net/




"Rob Bradlee" wrote in message
o.com...

Did the Lake Placid Loppet Saturday. Its a really tough race with
lots of vertical and STEEP uphills, but also a really fun trail.

Results at http://www.orda.org/04.loppet.50kF.htm

I skied a stupid race. Was tucked in behind my friend Andy Milne at
the 5K mark. Decided I could move up to the next skier who had gapped
up. Killed myself for 10K, then got dropped by both of them. I
recovered in the second half of the race for a decent result, but I was
5 minutes behind Andy and I feel I should be able to ski with him. But
hes done the race before and RESPECTED the course while I was
disrespectful and cocky. I paid the price for that kind of thinking.

The Lake Placid Loppet is small race with only 400 competitors in 4
events, but it was even smaller this year with the two week
postponement caused by frigid temperatures. The start of the 50K
freestyle was the most mellow mass start Ive ever been in. No one was
in a rush to attack such a demanding course.

My wife Barb Bradlee took second in her age group in the 25K skate with
an excellent time of 1:45. At the sumptuous banquet after the race (a
LOT better than Craftsbury!) there was a rich raffle. Ive been
coaching Barb on her raffling technique. I grabbed a nice backpack.
Then Barb won a Fischer race suit and matching hat. (Which will be for
sale soon as it is a good fit for a medium size man). Saturday night
Barb and I went to the movies and saw Miracle on Ice about the 1980
Olympic hockey team. Very fun to see it in Lake Placid. All in all
Id highly recommend this race. Tough but fun trails and a very
well-run event with great food and great prizes.

By the way, Pat Weaver won the Loppet. Before the race he told me he
thought Craftsbury last week week was the toughest classic race hed
ever done with the slow snow and big hills. (And hes been to
Olympics and World Champs, etc.).

Rob Bradlee

Ha!,,,,,don't get me wrong, Ken! I'm an infrequent poster on this group but
I do a fare share of lurking and learning. Most comments I make here are
with tongue in cheek. I don't feel competent enough in any aspect of the
sport to contribute much otherwise!

That said, I absolutely LOVE the Loppet. However, we may have been in a
different race because it always seems like a freakin' death march to me!

Congrats on a fine first try and I'll expect to see you in our group next
year.

Mike.........
"Ken Roberts" wrote in message
...
I had a very fun day of skiing in my first skate marathon (and third skate
race of my life). Since I knew I wasn't going to win anything, I started
at
the back and did the first 25 km as a pleasant tour. I waved to and
thanked
all the volunteers that I passed -- chatted with the other racers -- and
made sure I skied slow enough up all the hills. I was thinking how happy
I
was not to be a real racer and just enjoying skiing on a nice day with
other
good skiers, including the chance to follow some athletic women. It was
also fun to be passing lots and lots of Classic skiers who had started
earlier.

After the first 25 km lap, I looked at my watch and saw that my time was
much faster than I expected. So I kept skiing the same way thru the big
hills. With less than 5 km to go, I picked up the pace, and immediately
dropped the guy who had been with me for the last hour. But then another
guy caught me on a downhill (I try to be careful on these, but I had
fallen
a couple of times anyway).

I offered to let him pass me, but he said "No, you're faster on the
uphills". What a delightful compliment, I thought -- but maybe it was a
"psych", because then I started going harder up the hills, and soon I was
starting to hurt. I figured I had lost him, but then on the last gentle
uphill to the finish I looked back and saw him charging at me. Not being
a
real racer, I sprinted for the line and held on to beat him.

Mike Wynn wrote
It's a freakin' death march...can't wait til
next year! Congrats to all LP survivors.

I was in a different race??

I accomplished my goal of making it up all the hills using offset V1
skate,
without herringbone or stopping to rest. Had enough fun to want to do it
again, and even got some competitive thrill at the end. Surprise Bonus:
my
50K time was only 10% slower than guys like Mike Wynn and Rob Bradlee.

Ken