Karhu Metas and ski crampons

I just got the metas by post; hope to try them in the next week, on a
mountain I've that climbed by snowshow in the past.

I'm a bit curious about when one might use ski crampons, and if there are
ski crampons that would be universal enough to work with the odd meta
bindings. Often the last bit of climbing here is on hard, icy snow near
timberline; I certainly noticed the benefit of snowshoe crampons on such
stuff.

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In article . net,
H.W. Stockman wrote:
I just got the metas by post; hope to try them in the next week, on a
mountain I've that climbed by snowshow in the past.

I'm a bit curious about when one might use ski crampons, and if there are
ski crampons that would be universal enough to work with the odd meta
bindings.

_ There are some that mount directly to the ski, although they
are pretty difficult to find. I prefer the ones that mount on the
bindings, since they are generally simpler and lighter.
For the Meta binding, you might look around for an old pair
of Superloop crampons. They could perhaps be adapted to that
binding.

Often the last bit of climbing here is on hard, icy snow near
timberline; I certainly noticed the benefit of snowshoe crampons on such
stuff.


_ Skins work fairly well on hard snow as long as you're going up
rather than across and it's not super steep. Ski crampons are
handy for long steep climbs with lots of traversing on crusty
snow( or just long traverses ). I find them very handy in the
Sierra for early morning starts, when the corn is frozen.
They are a rather specialized bit of gear though, and are in
no way a replacement for real crampons or even the climbing teeth
on snowshoes.

_ Light weight aluminum crampons such as the Stubia or Grivel
ones are a much more general purpose solution and will take
more abuse than ski crampons. While they are questionable on
hard glacier ice, they work pretty well on everything short
of hard water ice.

_ Booker C. Bense



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"Booker C. Bense"
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Dec.21.04@telemark. slac.stanford.edu wrote
in message ...
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[...]
_ Skins work fairly well on hard snow as long as you're going up
rather than across and it's not super steep. Ski crampons are
handy for long steep climbs with lots of traversing on crusty
snow( or just long traverses ). I find them very handy in the
Sierra for early morning starts, when the corn is frozen.
They are a rather specialized bit of gear though, and are in
no way a replacement for real crampons or even the climbing teeth
on snowshoes.

_ Light weight aluminum crampons such as the Stubia or Grivel
ones are a much more general purpose solution and will take
more abuse than ski crampons. While they are questionable on
hard glacier ice, they work pretty well on everything short
of hard water ice.


Thanks... afterwards I started to think; "Do I really want to be on my skis
for any place that requires ski crampons? Especially since I'd have to come
back down?" I have some aluminum Stubai boot crampons, and it would make
much more sense to change over at that point.

As others have said, they are most useful on long icy traverses. I've only
used the Fritschi version which mount to the binding bar. Their limitation
is that they don't work well when using the tall heel-lifter setting. On
the other hand, IMO one of the great advantages of the ski-crampons is that
it is much easier to take a shallower ascent traverse and not have to skis
be constantly slipping away from you. With the crampons you don't need to
keep your ski on edge (in fact they work better if you "flatten" the ski,
which also allows the skin to grip better). Here in the Wasatch (utah)
they're not really necessary and almost no-one ever thinks of using them.
However after discovering them and using them extensively in the Alps, I've
wished I brought them on a couple of tours in the springtime! So I would
rate their usefulness *much* higher than some of the other posters,
depending on where and what you're planning to ski.

cs

"H.W. Stockman" wrote in message
ink.net...
I just got the metas by post; hope to try them in the next week, on a
mountain I've that climbed by snowshow in the past.

I'm a bit curious about when one might use ski crampons, and if there are
ski crampons that would be universal enough to work with the odd meta
bindings. Often the last bit of climbing here is on hard, icy snow near
timberline; I certainly noticed the benefit of snowshoe crampons on such
stuff.

"csteury" wrote in message
...
As others have said, they are most useful on long icy traverses. I've
only
used the Fritschi version which mount to the binding bar. Their
limitation
is that they don't work well when using the tall heel-lifter setting. On
the other hand, IMO one of the great advantages of the ski-crampons is
that
it is much easier to take a shallower ascent traverse and not have to skis
be constantly slipping away from you. With the crampons you don't need to
keep your ski on edge (in fact they work better if you "flatten" the ski,
which also allows the skin to grip better). Here in the Wasatch (utah)
they're not really necessary and almost no-one ever thinks of using them.
However after discovering them and using them extensively in the Alps,
I've
wished I brought them on a couple of tours in the springtime! So I would
rate their usefulness *much* higher than some of the other posters,
depending on where and what you're planning to ski.

So far I've had just one opportunity to take out the Metas, and the
conditions were far from optimal. While there was deep snow in the
woods/brush, that snow required skillful (magic) navigation skills to keep
me from getting occasional snootfuls of branches. The trail had been packed
down by many snowshoes, and in our freakish days (when the air temp may get
to 55F), the trail had melted and refrozen into a luge run of sorts. I
opted for the brush on the way up, where the deeper snow was, with just a
few ice patches. The Meta "bear fur" kicker zones held most of the time,
but I did my share of backsliding and occasional herringbone. My wife, on
snowshoes with hefty cranpons, fared much better.

I gained about 500 ft only before I decided it was too late in the day for
more fun. Coming down was interesting. At the top of the slope, where the
woods opened up a bit and there was less ice, I could cut slow telemarks and
parallel turns. But occasionally I would hit an icy patch and the deep
sidecut on the metas made it really hard to grab the slope with the edges.
In the luge-run trail, I was nearly always out of control, and opted for
skiing through the brush. My wife simply crunched down the trail on her
showshoes (which have full-length crampons); our speed of descent was about
the same, because I would go 50 to 100 feet avoiding bushes, at speeds of
about 5 to 10 mph, then I would have to stop to plan out the next leg.

I know right now that I don't want to ski down from any place ski crampons
could take me, at least out in these mountains, with their interesting
alternation of powder and ice, and almost nothing in between.

Jury's still out on the Meta's. In rough conditions, snowshoes would take
you a lot more places. The partial skins are not long enough for a good
hold on the way up, but add a bit of drag on the way down. The "universal
bindings" didn't work too well with medium-weight 3-season boots and
gaiters; when I cinched them tight for the downhills, the compression was
transmitted rather painfully to my feet. Next I'll try some slightly
stiffer boots.