Thanks for your input ... I'm not sure you read my post very carefully,
though. Have you read any of my previous posts about boots, either? I didn't
bother to reiterate some stuff I've mentioned before.

On 2004-12-15, VtSkier penned:
Monique Y. Mudama wrote:

I tried them out for the first time yesterday, at Beaver Creek. Eric was
in a mogul mood (as per usual), so that's most of what we did. Ripsaw was
the best; it doesn't get much sun, so the snow was still nice.

Doing bumps in "racing" boots? Could be a problem right there.

Who said anything about racing boots?

It seems that my new boots, which are designed for "expert" rather than
"intermediate" skiers, are much more demanding. In my old boots, leaning
back definitely hurt my technique, but in these new boots, shin-to-tongue
contact is an absolute must.

Shin to tongue contact is a good indicator that you are where you should be
over your skis, but pushing against the back of the boot to jet out of a
turn is also something you can feel with stiffer boots. Get out of the bumps
for a while and do big carved turns and pick up on the feel of wherever you
are.

I don't think I've ever heard anything from an instructor or fellow skier
about pushing against the back of the boot before. Maybe that's because I
have such a bad habit of sitting back that they just wanted me to focus on
moving forward.

I never thought I'd notice the difference so readily, but there it is. If
I'm not aggressively positioned, I have no control. I figure this is a
good thing, in the long run, as it will force me into good habits, but
right now it's still disconcerting.

It would seem to me that being in the back seat in bumps is the cause for no
control, not the boots. Yes, good boots will improve your skiing habits.

Of *course* being in the backseat in the bumps is a no-control situation. My
point was that my old boots were at least slightly tolerant of this bad
behavior, while my new boots will have none of it. I have to be in the
driver's seat. Like I said, pretty sure it's a good thing, but it's always
painful when you're confronted with your own bad habits.

The sides of my feet cramped a good deal the first few hours, but as the
day wore on, the pain subsided. Eric assures me that his feet cramped the
first few days, too, but after that he's been happy, so I guess I shouldn't
expect miracles the first day.

And now the meat of it. Plastic (a ski boot shell) will not conform to your
foot. A conformable liner will help, but if the shell has pressure points
now, or is too narrow, it will be too narrow and have pressure points next
year.

Well, yes, which is why I just bought these boots after having tried for
five years to get my old boots to work. The new boots are already much
more comfortable than the old ones, which had man-days of fitting work.
I felt no pressure on the side of my foot in the stock liner, so when I
felt some in the custom liner, the shop guys encouraged me to try the
liner for a few days before getting any adjustments done on the shell.

The shell itself is wonderful. There are no pressure points and it is plenty
wide, for once. The stock liner felt good on first blush, but because of my
history of difficulty with boots, I decided to get a custom foam liner.

As I said, the conformable liner will help. Have you gotten your
custom inner soles yet? The stiffer the boots, IMO, the more important these
become.

Yup, this is my second set of orthotics. My old boots had orthotics, as well,
and they helped, but weren't enough to eliminate problems inherent to the
shell.


Have you gotten your inner soles at a place where they can also do
shell adjustments?

Yes. They won't grind or punch the shell until I've skied on the boot enough
to pack out the liner and eliminate that as the culprit. I believe that is an
appropriate attitude; no point making adjustments to the shell when the liner
is still settling in. As I said before, my feet felt better at the end of the
day than they did at the beginning, which suggests to me that it's not yet
time for shell adjustments.

I have gotten two pair of boots finally adjusted to my
feet so that I can ski multiple days in either of them. The AT boots are
juicy comfy and the Alpine (racing) boots can be worn all day with little
adjustment. All because I've had the bootfitter move out the shell where it
hurt, and caused pain which lasted several days.

On the flip side, my last set of boots had many, many adjustments, including
at least three punch-outs and a grind, and were never comfortable. Ski
literature has all sorts of things to say about how you need the fit to be
tight from the start, so that you have good control. It's clear to me that
this tight-fit theory has flaws when it comes to people with unusually
sensitive or oddly-shaped feet. When I first tried on this new pair of boots,
I actually told the salesguy they must be too big, as they actually felt
comfortable. But he did the usual toe and heel checks and assured me that
"not in pain" did not have to mean "too loose to be effective."

Foot cramping can be caused by two things. a) your foot (instep) is being
squashed because you don't have adequate arch support. or b) you boot is too
narrow, or at least too narrow in critical places.

c) the liner hasn't packed out yet

Your boots should be tight enough so that you don't have to buckle them very
tight to ski well. You should never have to "crank" on your buckles. Tight
enough to stay closed plus a little is adequate if the boots fit right. If
your new boots ARE fitted correctly, maybe your are simply buckling too
tight. Your feet shouldn't cramp, get cold or otherwise be uncomfortable
when you are in your boots. If they are the boots are too tight somewhere.

Welcome to my world. I have big calves. Even with women's boots and having
moved the buckles out to the third hole, the boot is still pretty tight on the
loosest setting.

Also, I can definitely tell a difference in my level of control when I don't
have the upper buckles tight. I've learned my lesson about cramping the calf
by making the boot too tight, so I start out on the loosest setting every day
and only tighten the buckles if I feel "wobbly." The one just above the ankle
seems to be the most important for control.

The two buckles across my foot, on the other hand, I have set as loosely as
possible. There's no pressure being applied by the buckles.

Frankly, I think all of your advice applies to boots that have been broken in,
not boots that have been worn for a day. As I said, I had some cramping on
the *first run ever* in these boots, but by the end of the day most of that
was gone. As for the idea that my feet "shouldn't get cold," I'm wondering if
you have any circulation problems. My hands get ice-cold just typing at the
computer.

As for "expert" boots as opposed to "intermediate" boots, I'm wondering what
the difference is. I ski a lot in my AT boots. They are very soft, only
three buckles, have a walk function and vibram soles. I got them because I'm
off my skis a lot while "working" at the area. My bootfitter told me that
many people can't ski well on them because they are so soft. Is softness a
mark of an "expert" boot? My "racing boots" are middling stiff. Maybe not as
stiff as my old Salomons, maybe stiffer, but they have a great progressive
flex fore and aft and don't feel very stiff at all, but they will drive my
Volkl 6star skis well where the AT boots leave a bit to be desired on a high
performance ski. I've been considering a softer boot for my alpine use. I
saw a pair of Kneissl Rail boots and tried on a pair of Garmont Adrenaline
AT boots when I was at a shop in South Lake Tahoe on Friday. Both looked
very nice and the Garmonts felt great.

My new boots are stiffer than my old boots, but not so stiff that I can't flex
them. Here they a

http://www.salomonski.com/us/product...m=9&pro=782594

According to the shop, they recommended these boots to me based on forward
lean, not stiffness. They have a more aggressive forward angle (see above
discussion on how they force me into the driver's seat). In fact, the models
they suggested first were softer, but the fit was just as tight as my old
boots.

My old boots had the walking function, as well as a flex adjustment that was a
disaster -- any snow on the boot would push the flex adjuster, so that I never
had any idea from moment to moment how much flex I actually had. The walking
function isn't important to me, as the only walking I do in my boots is from
the locker to the lift. I use regular shoes from the parking lot to the
locker, to preserve both my feet and my boots.

--
monique
Longmont, CO