Gene Goldenfeld wrote
There's a basic misunderstanding here

Yes I think Gene and I do have a "basic" -- not misunderstanding -- We just
plain disagree.

. . . have a quiet upper body.

Gene thinks I should have a quiet upper body. I think "quiet" is an option
for skating on the flats, but when I gotta climb up a steep hill, I need to
get wild with my upper body. I think that's what physics says, and that's
what the elite racers in the videos do. Put me on hard snow on the flats and
I'll skate as pretty as you want, but if I'm going to make it up a hill with
soft snow on it, I gotta do what works. And I think physics says that what
works includes:
* smooth effective leg-push out toward the side, while the ski is gliding
way out to the side.
* stable hips
* wild side-to-side motion of torso
* stable head

The way I analyze those videos of my V1, I'm getting close on 3 out of 4 of
those points, but I'm still way off on 1 out of 4 ("stable head"). So
"stable head in V1" is now on my list to work on for next year. But I would
need to hear some good reason for why I should also be adding "quiet upper
body for climbing up hills".

In the other sequence (side, legs), you are virtually
running on skis rather than skating

To me that side view of Legs-only looks very different from running up a
hill:
* each ski keeps gliding forward the whole time it's on the snow.
* as the leg pushes, the heel drives down and back into the snow.

I don't think hill-runners drive their heels down like that. True, the glide
is nowhere near as long as you'd expect to see of someone skating on the
flats -- but that video was taken on the steepest hill at the Mohonk ski
center -- How much glide can you expect there from some guy with distinctly
non-elite leg muscles?

And viewing the Legs-only front-view video using pause and single-frame, on
most of the leg-pushes (especially the skier's left leg):
* the pushing leg ends up nearly fully straightened,
* with the toe pointed out way to the side.

I do not think running up a hill looks like that. I guess I need more help
in identifying the "running" aspects of the motion.

I'm sorta thinking that the side-view Legs video looks a bit like "hot feet"
or "dynamic legs". I even see some of that "knee drive" move that Vordenberg
has been focusing on lately. And in the front-view Legs video when the toe
ends pointed out to the side -- could that be a bit of that "kicking
forward" move that Rob Bradlee was describing on this newsgroup 3 weeks ago
to help with "Struggles going upshill"?

(Let's see what I can learn from basic disagreement.)

Ken
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Gene Goldenfeld wrote
I agree with Dell about your willingness to post and ask for help, and
your improvement.

There's a basic misunderstanding here. In three of the sequences you
are trying to get weight shift, i.e., get from skate to skate from your
upper body, esp. your shoulders. They are rocking, bobbing, weaving,
etc. Instead, skating needs to come from your core/pelvic area and
legs, with the upper body moving naturally along without tilting. The
phrase often used is to have a quiet upper body. In the other sequence
(side, legs), you are virtually running on skis rather than skating
(perhaps the mental image is stepping, but you are actually moving too
fast to step). For all of this...

Exercise 1: Skate keeping your nongliding ski very close to the snow,
literally lifting it just enough to clear and no higher. This exercise
will force you to use your legs, as well as ankles, edges and such,
while helping you get the feel of staying on the ski longer.

Exercise 2: V1 Skate with a stiff (but not rigid) upper body, using mild
terrain. This is an exaggerated position that will help make clear what
a quiet upper body is. Do V2 this way also.

Exercise 3 (no pole and pole): After you get comfortable with the first
two exercises, i.e., you are actually using your legs and are skating
ski to ski and you have quieted your torso, then try driving each skate
with your upper thigh (some people use the knee, but I like to emphasize
the top of the leg because it's easier to keep your hip over the ski
from there). This will help you get up over the ski more and stay there
longer. It's a different and great feeling.

Poling: Isolating it from all the shoulder and head movement, your V1
poling actually looks pretty good. If you quiet the upper body, it will
get a lot easier and more effective. I would suggest bringing the
off-side hand across in front more, but no farther than halfway across
your torso. Swimmers and big-shouldered folks tend to keep the off-side
hand wider, while the rest of us are stronger closer, more like double
pole hand distance apart.

Poling Exercise: Do V1 with one pole, poling from both the strong side
and then the off-side pole. This will also help you use your legs.

Gene
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