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Old March 30th 15, 09:09 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Terje Mathisen[_3_]
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Default Training polarization (Stephen Seiler)

Per the Norwegian Olympic Cmte Top Performance Group manual for
endurance athletes from ~2005, L3 is considered around lactate
threshhold (USST guide also).

L3 - 80-87% VO2max, 82-87% max HR, lactate 2.5-4.0 mmol, 50-90 mins tot.
L4 - 87-94% VO2max, 87-92% max HR, lactate 4.0-6.0 mmol, 30-50 mins
L5 - 94-100% VO2mx, 92-97% max HR, lactate, 6.0-10 mmol, 15-30 mins

Thanks, I've never noticed that info, what I've seen from Garmin etc had
the boundaries a point or two lower;

L4 from 87 to 92%, for 30-50 mins corresponds very closely with my own
experience, where I've done 90% for an 80-min race and 93% for 40 min.

The exact boundaries will be a little bit fluent anyway, simply from the
difficulty in measuring max HR: Is it really 185 for me as measured
during that max O2 test (which also did full EKG monitoring at the same
time), or the 187 bpm value which my Garmin watches claim to have seen? :-)

The Norwegian international orienteering team has been tested (by that
Oly Top Perf group), they all ended up in the 90-93% range for
competitions lasting about 1 hour.



On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 21:42:34 +0200
Terje Mathisen wrote:

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 06:16:39 -0700 (PDT)


Thanks for posting this. I found it quite interesting. My
performance has suffered in the past couple of years, and I think
I've fallen into the black hole, particularly when I look at
results of older guys who are really kicking my arse.

I wonder if a Birkie pin will help my work career. I'd still like
to do that race.

Hi Jay,
During my annual perusal of Birkie results, I saw you were still
racing the Birkie and up there towards the top. What would a
Birkie be without you...

While the basic message of the research is not new to many x-c
skiers who pay attention to this sort of training info, there's
still a lot of resistance and outright denial to it, especially in
the States. No pain, no gain has a lot of adherents (one well known
one wouldn't even look at the video). What caught my attention
above all in Seilor's talk was that the bulk of high intensity
training is being done at L4, not L3, contrary to most of what I've
heard over the years.


Can you even call it high intensity at L3?

Personally I'm still running ~75 competitions/year (orienteering),
they constitute at least 90% of my high intensity training in season,
and a large part (i.e. once a week or a little less) even in winter.

At least for me I tend to run a lot of competitions (they normally
last around 45 minutes) with an average heart rate in the 90-92% of
max range, this is supposedly just on the border between L4 and L5.

(170+ with a 185 max measured during a max O2 test.)

When I'm out of shape I can't average more than 155 or so.

BTW, I remember meeting Jay W when we visited Jay T for the Masters
World Orienteering Champs in Minnesota around 1995, nice that he's
still doing well!


- Terje.Mathisen at
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

- Terje.Mathisen at
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"