Comments below.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:42:30 -0800, Chris Cline wrote:

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Hi Kim-
Sorry to have criticized you based on mis-perceptions-- it's the biggest
problem with this kind of a discussion in an email forum. This would
probably be best done sitting around a table with a glass of wine.

No foul, no harm.

I think we have all made mistakes in judgement from time to time that have
quickly gotten us right up to the edge, if not slightly over it, and
hopefully we all learn from it. There's a saying: experience leads to
good judgement, but it's bad judgement that leads to experience.

Agreed.

Though I don't want to beat this (or you) to death any more, I still think
that the number one lesson to take to heart is to 1) constantly be
evaluating the environment around you, and how you're feeling in (and
about) it; and 2) use those perceptions to evaluate if you're being
sensible, and exercise the option to bail out or back off if you're
feeling uncomfortable.

I agree.

But maybe you feel that everything was just fine except for the falling in
the stream part, and we're all over-reacting to the rest of the tour
(which is understandable given the amount of text you devoted to building
up the story of falling in the stream)-- in which case, just stay out of
the water from now on! ;- )

I've kind of got mixed feelings about the day. We weren't in over our
heads until the creek incident. We were on the line with clothing, skis,
etc, but like one poster put it, you just ski slower. I guess one just
has to be really careful and stay away from situations where you are close
to the edge, especially in multiple areas.


cheers and enjoy the rest of the winter. I haven't skiied in Canada in
February, but I am going for my first hut-to-hut trip (the Wapta traverse)
at the end of March. I'm looking forward to it, and I plan to stay out of
the creek beds!

I wish you a safe and happy trip. The Wapta traverse is a big
undertaking. I've never done, but I've heard about it from those that
have. Ski safe. Watch for avalanches, which can happen with high
frequency during a warm spring day.




Chris C.
SLC, UT

Me wrote:


Yeah, but what those rec.bc folks don't know is that skate skis are JUST
the tool on thos spring crust days. Just ask Mark Nadell (the Sierra
crust cruising maniac)!

First of all, I wasn't using skating skis. For the record, I can ski
skate, and fairly well, with a pair of thin telemark skis and telemark
boots. The metal edges glide fairly well.

Secondly, other than breaking through the snow, the skis I was using were
pretty good. I wasn't the only one on light equipment out there. If we
wouldn't have taken the last segment of the trail, at the end of the day I
would have considered my equipment selection to be OK.

A shovel on the other hand might be wise for reasons other than
avalanches.

Maybe using it to knock some sense into yourself? ;- )

ha ha...


Sorry to be so hard on you-- consider it tough love.

Hah! Imagine the welcome this would get on rec.skiing.backcountry,
talking about using skate skis and a light shell on a February
backcountry day excursion in Canada. Well said, Chris. -- GG



First of all, this wasn't true back country. This was ski touring as in a
ski set trail. True back country skiing is about skins, trecking off
trails, etc.

Secondly, have you ever skied in Canada in February ? It was a very warm
day the day we were out. Above freezing. The reason it was cold in the
valley was due to a cold air pocket caused by: shadows from the mountains,
it was beneath a glacier and no wind. Later in the day I was warm and
others were overheating. Was it really such a stupid decision ? Compared
to the people in sweat pants I was in excellent shape, clothing wise. They
were wet, I was dry.

People can sit back and criticize me and my story as much as they want. I
relayed the events of the day and emphasized mistakes we'd made for the
purpose of learning, both for me and for others. I made them look black
and white, but during the day they weren't so obvious.

The BIG mistake of the day was routefinding and not paying enough
attention to it. The other mistakes were more tradeoffs than mistakes and
that is kind of the point of the story: there is a fine line between
tradeoffs and mistakes when skiing in the wilderness AND the conditions
can change VERY quickly, making what was once a trade off, a BIG mistake.






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DIVHi Kim-/DIV
DIVSorry to have criticized you based on mis-perceptions-- it's the
biggest problem with this kind of a discussion in an email forum. 
This would probably be best done sitting around a table with a glass of
wine./DIV DIV /DIV
DIVI think we have all made mistakes in judgement from time to time that
have quickly gotten us right up to the edge, if not slightly over it, and
hopefully we all learn from it.  There's a saying: experience leads
to good judgement, but it's bad judgement that leads to experience./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVThough I don't want to beat this (or you) to death any more, I still
think that the number one lesson to take to heart is to 1) constantly be
evaluating the environment around you, and how you're feeling in (and
about) it; and 2) use those perceptions to evaluate if you're being
sensible, and exercise the option to bail out or back off if you're
feeling uncomfortable./DIV DIV /DIV
DIVBut maybe you feel that everything was just fine except for the
falling in the stream part, and we're all over-reacting to the rest of the
tour (which is understandable given the amount of text you devoted to
building up the story of falling in the stream)-- in which case, just stay
out of the water from now on! ;- )/DIV DIV /DIV
DIVcheers and enjoy the rest of the winter.  I haven't skiied in
Canada in February, but I am going for my first hut-to-hut trip (the Wapta
traverse) at the end of March.  I'm looking forward to it, and I plan
to stay out of the creek beds!/DIV DIV /DIV
DIVChris C./DIV
DIVSLC, UTBRBRBIMe >/I/B wrote:/DIV
BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"BRBR> Yeah, but what those rec.bc
folks don't know is that skate skis are JUSTBR> the tool on thos
spring crust days. Just ask Mark Nadell (the SierraBR> crust cruising
maniac)!BRBRFirst of all, I wasn't using skating skis. For the record,
I can skiBRskate, and fairly well, with a pair of thin telemark skis and
telemarkBRboots. The metal edges glide fairly well.BRBRSecondly,
other than breaking through the snow, the skis I was using wereBRpretty
good. I wasn't the only one on light equipment out there. If
weBRwouldn't have taken the last segment of the trail, at the end of the
day IBRwould have considered my equipment selection to be
OK.BRBR>> A shovel on the other hand might be wise for reasons
other thanBR>> avalanches.BR>> BR>> Maybe using it
to knock some sense into yourself? ;- )BRBRha
ha...BRBRBR>> Sorry to be so hard on you-- consider it tough
love.BR> BR> Hah! Imagine the welcome this would get on
rec.skiing.backcountry,BR> talking about using skate skis and a
light shell on a FebruaryBR> backcountry day excursion in Canada.
Well said, Chris. -- GGBR> BR> BRBRFirst of all, this
wasn't true back country. This was ski touring as in aBRski set trail.
True back country skiing is about skins, trecking offBRtrails,
etc.BRBRSecondly, have you ever skied in Canada in February ? It was
a very warmBRday the day we were out. Above freezing. The reason it was
cold in theBRvalley was due to a cold air pocket caused by: shadows
from the mountains,BRit was beneath a glacier and no wind. Later in the
day I was warm andBRothers were overheating. Was it really such a
stupid decision ? ComparedBRto the people in sweat pants I was in
excellent shape, clothing wise. TheyBRwere wet, I was
dry.BRBRPeople c! an sit
back and criticize me and my story as much as they want. IBRrelayed the
events of the day and emphasized mistakes we'd made for theBRpurpose of
learning, both for me and for others. I made them look blackBRand
white, but during the day they weren't so obvious.BRBRThe BIG mistake
of the day was routefinding and not paying enoughBRattention to it. The
other mistakes were more tradeoffs than mistakes andBRthat is kind of
the point of the story: there is a fine line betweenBRtradeoffs and
mistakes when skiing in the wilderness AND the conditionsBRcan change
VERY quickly, making what was once a trade off, a BIG mistake.
BRBRBRBRBR/BLOCKQUOTE phr SIZE=1
Do you Yahoo!?br
a
href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailtag_us/*http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools?tool=1"Yahoo!
Mail SpamGuard/a - Read only the mail you want./a
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