On Feb 3, 11:26 am, " wrote:
According to two independent Swedish research groups, stonegrinding
tear up small "hairs" from the base, shown in the first microscope
picture of this TV clip:http://svt.se/svt/road/Classic/share....jsp?a=1043760...

Waxing helps giving a smoother surface as seen in the second
microscope picture in the TV clip, and my guess is that what happens
when you're skiing is that as wax wears off, the "hairs" become
visible again, giving "grey surfaces" and more friction.

The third microscope picture in the TV clip shows the result of
preparing the gliding surface with a steel scraper instead of stone
grinding, in order to get a surface that is even smoother than the
waxed surface. (To be precise, the steel scraper shown in the TV clip
seems to be the one sold athttp://www.kuzmin.nubut professor Hogmark
said in a recent radio inteview that his group was inspired by
Kuzmin's ideas but has developed their own tools, so the steel scraper
shown is probably not the one responsible for the very smooth surface
in the last microscope picture.)

According to professor Hogmark, in cold enough weather for dry
friction between the ski base and the snow, tribological laws tell
that the smoother surface you have, the better glide you get, so that
the skis in the third microscope picture should glide even faster than
stone grinded and waxed skis in cold weather. For temperatures
closer to 0 degrees C, you'd need to use a riller to add some
structure into the smooth surface. The best result I know of from a
skier skiing on such skis (no gliding wax and steel scraping instead
of stone grinding) is 39th place in Vasaloppet 2007, and for amateur
use, steel scraping is a very simple way to get pretty good glide for,
say, 500 km of skiing or so without worrying about anything related to
glide wax. Some people have claimed that steel scraped skis glide
even faster after glide waxing, whereas Hogmark and Kuzmin has
arguments implying that the physical properties of the ski base are so
good that if you only get the surface smooth enough, there should not
be need for any ski wax. Stone grinding experts on their hand, use to
argue that if a real expert use the best machine on the market they
can obtain better results (and still with some requirements on the ski
owner to be good at waxing and all the usual initial preparations that
you're required to do immediately after having your skis stone
grinded).

This is still research in progress and the skiing community is full of
people having very strong opinions about what "religion" they
subscribe to, so there are probably no simple truths about what gives
the absolute glide for some given temperature and snow conditions,
but I figured that there might be people here too interested in
knowing that there are much simpler alternatives to traditional stone
grinding and (loads and loads and loads of) waxing. So for anyone
more interested in skiing than in waxing the future looks bright. =)

And all others can of course continue with what they have done
before. =)

Time is running out. Gotta sleep...

/ Niklas
On Jan 29, 3:00 pm, "32 degrees" wrote:

so i have a pair of RCS classic fischers that are 2 years old. Whenever i
ski on them (after a fresh waxing mind you) i get an area of "white"
developing just behind my kick zone. Obviously, it seems that this area is
losing its wax and "drying out." ??

I have waxed them religiously, stored them with summer wax on, etc etc but
as soon as i ski on them after waxing the white reappears. Just the other
day they were freshly waxed then skied on for about an hour - boom, white
area.

Do these skis need to be stoneground so they'll accept wax in this area
better? Do i need to saturate the base with ridiculous amounts of
heating/cooling cycles? I have owned 10+ pair of Fischers and if memory
serves me right it did happen with one pair of skating skis a while back too
.... but no others.

any advice?

JKal.

I don't doubt the research, but, at least in my case, it is not micro
hairs from stonegrinding that cause the whiteness. It happens with
old skis and new ones. Plus, when I have a fresh grind, I do what
many do: carefully "shave" the skis with a broad, heavy razor or a
sharp metal scraper. This is very lightly - just to remove the little
hairs. Then, a few cycles of heating in hard waxes and normal
scraping and brushing. Yes, you can see results, not only in the
hairs that are scraped off, but in nearly immediate speed with the
freshly ground skis.

It is very common knowledge that very cold conditions require an
extremely fine grind, the smoother the better.

I don't think that the research you mentioned has anything to do with
the phenomenon discussed. It is iteresting, and important to know
though.