Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

I'm looking at a price of $575 for airline and 7 nights lodging in
Innsbruck for early January. I've seen several places offering
similar deals right now for Innsbruck. I've never been to Europe and
this price is super cheap, but I am wondering what the drawbacks are.
I am really worried about jetlag too. How does Innsbruck stack up to
the rockies or Whistler?

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 11:42:33 +0100, "InMyTree"
wrote:

The whole Innsbruck area has mountains that are not very high in comparision
to the mountains in the Tyrol area for example..

Where exactly do you think the Tyrol is?


"Ian Spare" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 09:38:50 +0100, "InMyTree"
wrote:

That region is fairly low altitude wise.. so if it was early January I'd
say
you'd be taking a risk of not having few good snow.. if it was late Jan,
you'd probably be alright..

Innsbruck is the airport, the mountains are a little higher. It's as
reliable as anywhere else in the Alpes in January. From Innsbruck you
can get to a few places.

I actually ski near Innsbruck a lot, all year round in fact, however,
as I've not been to the Rockies I can't make a comparison.


That does sound like a very cheap deal..

"svadas" wrote in message
. com...
I'm looking at a price of $575 for airline and 7 nights lodging in
Innsbruck for early January. I've seen several places offering
similar deals right now for Innsbruck. I've never been to Europe and
this price is super cheap, but I am wondering what the drawbacks are.
I am really worried about jetlag too. How does Innsbruck stack up to
the rockies or Whistler?


--
Yeah, because you never know when the value of 2^15 will change and
you have to go through all your code fixing it.
-- Paul Tomblin


--
Yeah, because you never know when the value of 2^15 will change and
you have to go through all your code fixing it.
-- Paul Tomblin

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

I think Tyrol is near the Swiss border, and mountains in that area include
St Anton, Lech and Zurs..

Where do you think Tyrol is?

"Ian Spare" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 11:42:33 +0100, "InMyTree"
wrote:

The whole Innsbruck area has mountains that are not very high in
comparision
to the mountains in the Tyrol area for example..

Where exactly do you think the Tyrol is?


"Ian Spare" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 09:38:50 +0100, "InMyTree"
wrote:

That region is fairly low altitude wise.. so if it was early January
I'd
say
you'd be taking a risk of not having few good snow.. if it was late
Jan,
you'd probably be alright..

Innsbruck is the airport, the mountains are a little higher. It's as
reliable as anywhere else in the Alpes in January. From Innsbruck you
can get to a few places.

I actually ski near Innsbruck a lot, all year round in fact, however,
as I've not been to the Rockies I can't make a comparison.


That does sound like a very cheap deal..

"svadas" wrote in message
. com...
I'm looking at a price of $575 for airline and 7 nights lodging in
Innsbruck for early January. I've seen several places offering
similar deals right now for Innsbruck. I've never been to Europe
and
this price is super cheap, but I am wondering what the drawbacks
are.
I am really worried about jetlag too. How does Innsbruck stack up
to
the rockies or Whistler?


--
Yeah, because you never know when the value of 2^15 will change and
you have to go through all your code fixing it.
-- Paul Tomblin


--
Yeah, because you never know when the value of 2^15 will change and
you have to go through all your code fixing it.
-- Paul Tomblin

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

I've looked at a map and I think I know where Tyrol is. My question is
if it's worth the trip for 7 nights. In summit county, aka rockies,
where I go a lot we have good snow as the base villages are at 10,000
feet and then the mountains are normally 2-3,000 feet up. Not the
huge mountains I read about in the alps, but that is why I am asking.
If I fly over to the alps, I am going to go over 6 time zones. This
will likely hurt me. My problem in the rockies is normally the
altitude. You can't sleep at that altitude more than a few hours.
But the snow is always good. What could I expect from innsbruck?

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

Fair point.. it seems I was wrong..

"BJohansson" wrote in message
...
You're actually referring to the Arlberg region. Innsbruck is in Tirol.

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

I've skied both the Rockies and Austria somewhat extensively. I'm an American
who lived in southern Germany for 4 years. Innsbruck is not a ski area in the
sense that Breckenridge or Copper or Vail are resorts. Innsbruck is a fairly
large town that hosted 2 Olympics. The skiing is 20-30 minutes away from the
town and quite honestly, not worth your time. As others have stated, the best
decent skiing near Innsbruck is St. Anton which is a ski resort similar to the
Colorado resorts. However, St. Anton is about 90 minutes by car from
Innsbruck. There is train service between the 2, but I have no idea what the
schedule is. As others have also mentioned there is a large variety of other
"resorts" within 1-2 hours of Innsbruck. I'll echo what the others have said.
Lech is one of my favorite Austrian resorts, Ischgl is huge (another "resort"
similar to US resorts), I had great luck with the snow conditions on the
Hintertux glacier. All that being said, Innsbruck is a starting point, not a
destination in my view; Unless you're going for the "European experience"
which is great, but if you're a hard-core skier, I think you'll be disappointed
with the skiing around Innsbruck.

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

you've a handful of stations nearby which are pretty nice. St Anton's not
so
far away for example, you could be there for a week and ski a
different station each day
St Anton is not exactly a 'ski station is it? With its spanking trains and
suburbs (Neiderau etc.) its more like a full on town.
Jon

"Ian Spare" wrote in message
...
On 24 Aug 2003 19:09:23 -0700, (svadas) wrote:

I've looked at a map and I think I know where Tyrol is. My question is
if it's worth the trip for 7 nights. In summit county, aka rockies,
where I go a lot we have good snow as the base villages are at 10,000
feet and then the mountains are normally 2-3,000 feet up. Not the
huge mountains I read about in the alps, but that is why I am asking.
If I fly over to the alps, I am going to go over 6 time zones. This
will likely hurt me. My problem in the rockies is normally the
altitude. You can't sleep at that altitude more than a few hours.
But the snow is always good. What could I expect from innsbruck?

I'll have a go if we've all stopped being silly :-) I can't compare
since I've not skied in the US.

I'm not real clear what you're going to be doing, some people
certainly do stay in Innsbruck rather than up the hills in the
stations, rather (I imagine) like staying in Salt Lake City. If you're
with a tour group and/or have access to transport it's not bad, you've
a handful of stations nearby which are pretty nice. St Anton's not so
far away for example, you could be there for a week and ski a
different station each day . And, Innsbruck is a nice town, plenty to
see in the evenings and some nice restaurants. If you're relying on
public transport from Innsbruck to slopes each day, it can certainly
be done, there's buses etc, it'd not be my choice though.

Most people tend to stay in one station or another so if you're doing
that and knew which station it was then I could comment, I'll have
almost certainly been there.

As for height, to be honest I can't think what height Innsbruck is but
the skiing's going to be not more than 2000-3000m.

I think you'd said it was cheap, for the price, it's probably worth
taking a look.

Ian

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

"BJohansson" wrote in message
...
I've skied both the Rockies and Austria somewhat extensively. I'm an
American
who lived in southern Germany for 4 years. Innsbruck is not a ski area in
the
sense that Breckenridge or Copper or Vail are resorts. Innsbruck is a
fairly
large town that hosted 2 Olympics. The skiing is 20-30 minutes away from
the
town and quite honestly, not worth your time. As others have stated, the
best
decent skiing near Innsbruck is St. Anton which is a ski resort similar to
the
Colorado resorts. However, St. Anton is about 90 minutes by car from
Innsbruck. There is train service between the 2, but I have no idea what
the
schedule is. As others have also mentioned there is a large variety of
other
"resorts" within 1-2 hours of Innsbruck. I'll echo what the others have
said.
Lech is one of my favorite Austrian resorts, Ischgl is huge (another
"resort"
similar to US resorts), I had great luck with the snow conditions on the
Hintertux glacier. All that being said, Innsbruck is a starting point, not
a
destination in my view; Unless you're going for the "European experience"
which is great, but if you're a hard-core skier, I think you'll be
disappointed
with the skiing around Innsbruck.

--
[Above] Sounds about right.
Jon.

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:48:39 +0100, "Jonathan Gogan"
wrote:

you've a handful of stations nearby which are pretty nice. St Anton's not
so
far away for example, you could be there for a week and ski a
different station each day
St Anton is not exactly a 'ski station is it? With its spanking trains and
suburbs (Neiderau etc.) its more like a full on town.
Jon


Of course it's !"£$ing ski station, are you on drugs or what?

Before posting drivel again try and get your brain engaged and sort
out your posting style, ie attibution and don't top post.

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:44:39 +0200, Ian Spare
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:48:39 +0100, "Jonathan Gogan"
wrote:

you've a handful of stations nearby which are pretty nice. St Anton's not
so
far away for example, you could be there for a week and ski a
different station each day
St Anton is not exactly a 'ski station is it? With its spanking trains and
suburbs (Neiderau etc.) its more like a full on town.
Jon


Of course it's !"£$ing ski station, are you on drugs or what?

Could be a language thang, I guess. Maybe he thinks a 'ski station' is
just a tiny one-lift affair or something.

Before posting drivel again try and get your brain engaged and sort
out your posting style, ie attibution and don't top post.

Whereas this has no excuse.

--
Ace (bruce dot rogers at roche dot com)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

I do have a quote of $886 USD for airfare/transfers 7 nights at Hotel
Felsenhof in Lech (w/half board). Seems to be a better location, but
price is based on flying out on Dec 12 which may be toooo early for
snow still. Any thoughts?

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

Lech is a great area because on one ticket (at least it used to be this way),
you can ski Lech, Zurs, St Christoph, St Anton and one other small-ish area.
Lech and Zurs are actually linked by lifts. On the downside, it is probably
the most expensive place to stay and play in Austria. Not sure what half-board
gives you, but if it doesn't include dinner, you may be in for a little sticker
shock at the restaurants. Not on the scale of Vail mind you, but for Austria,
it's pretty pricey.

All that being said, I wouldn't bet on decent snow that early. We rarely went
skiing anywhere except glaciers before mid-February when I lived in Europe.

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

In , BJohansson typed:
Lech is a great area because on one ticket (at least it used to be
this way), you can ski Lech, Zurs, St Christoph, St Anton and one
other small-ish area. Lech and Zurs are actually linked by lifts. On
the downside, it is probably the most expensive place to stay and
play in Austria. Not sure what half-board gives you, but if it
doesn't include dinner, you may be in for a little sticker shock at
the restaurants. Not on the scale of Vail mind you, but for Austria,
it's pretty pricey.

All that being said, I wouldn't bet on decent snow that early. We
rarely went skiing anywhere except glaciers before mid-February when
I lived in Europe.

Half Board is bed, Breakfast and Evening meal.


--
Chris *:-)

Downhill Good, Uphill BAD!

www.suffolkvikings.org.uk

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

Last year I was in St.Anton the second week of december. Above 2000m. the
snowcoverage was good. Below there was sufficient artificial snow. Lech is
better most of the time.

-Stephan

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:58:29 +0100, "Jonathan Gogan"
wrote:


"Ian Spare" was updset enough to wrote
Of course it's !"£$ing ski station, are you on drugs or what?
Before posting drivel again try and get your brain engaged and sort
out your posting style, ie attibution and don't top post.


More Drivel:
I would call 'Station Oz' a ski station. As it is, a, well ... 'ski
station'
I would call St Anotn a village/town as it is a well... town?

The is Europe, it's rec.skiing.resorts.europe, we call a ski station
somewhere that has access to a ski area, like a train station lets you
ride the train.

Thanks for modifying your posting style.

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

"Ian Spare" skrev i en meddelelse
...
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:58:29 +0100, "Jonathan Gogan"
wrote:


"Ian Spare" was updset enough to wrote
Of course it's !"£$ing ski station, are you on drugs or what?
Before posting drivel again try and get your brain engaged and sort
out your posting style, ie attibution and don't top post.


More Drivel:
I would call 'Station Oz' a ski station. As it is, a, well ... 'ski
station'
I would call St Anotn a village/town as it is a well... town?

The is Europe, it's rec.skiing.resorts.europe, we call a ski station
somewhere that has access to a ski area, like a train station lets you
ride the train.


Hi, I am puzzled too.

Please don't be offended, but in Scandinavia and all cross Europe we would
surely call a town like St. Anton a town. This apparently is different in
UK.
I am curious, how do one differentiate between a town and a mere station?

(And try to bear with the top posters, Outlook Express , the most widely
used newsreader/mailer, has its default that way. It creates a blank line on
top, and places the insertionpoint there. You have to remember to delete the
top line and skip to the bottom every time you post, - slips me from time
to time as well)

Best regards

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

In k, Ivan Rafn typed:

Hi, I am puzzled too.

Please don't be offended, but in Scandinavia and all cross Europe we
would surely call a town like St. Anton a town. This apparently is
different in UK.
I am curious, how do one differentiate between a town and a mere
station?


I think to put it simply a Ski Station may be a village or a town, or just
some buildings at the bottom of a lift. in europe most ski stations are
towns, but elsewhere this may not be the case.

(And try to bear with the top posters, Outlook Express , the most
widely used newsreader/mailer, has its default that way. It creates a
blank line on top, and places the insertionpoint there. You have to
remember to delete the top line and skip to the bottom every time you
post, - slips me from time to time as well)

Best regards

Bottom posting is a pain! it is a remnant of using teletypes. Why can't we
move with the technology?

I only bottom post, because if you don't you get shouted at. If people
snipped irrelevant text it would not be such a problem, but they don't and I
get ****ed off by having to scroll down through reams of stuff I have read
before to find a 1 line silly comment at the bottom. if it was top posted
life would be much simpler!

I use OE-quotefix which can be set to make OE bottom post

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:41:35 +0200, "Ivan Rafn"
wrote:

"Ian Spare" skrev i en meddelelse
.. .

snip

The is Europe, it's rec.skiing.resorts.europe, we call a ski station
somewhere that has access to a ski area, like a train station lets you
ride the train.


Hi, I am puzzled too.

Please don't be offended, but in Scandinavia and all cross Europe we would
surely call a town like St. Anton a town. This apparently is different in
UK.
I am curious, how do one differentiate between a town and a mere station?

'Mere' is the misleading part here. In French, anywhere there is
skiing is referred to as a Station de Ski. It's in no way connected to
the existence or otherwise of town, village or city.

(And try to bear with the top posters, Outlook Express , the most widely
used newsreader/mailer, has its default that way.

As do many proper newsreaders. It's not exactly rocket science to hit
page_down a couple of times, trimming unwanted verbiage as you do so.
TBH I had to hit reply a second time to test this out, as it's so much
an automatic reaction.

It creates a blank line on
top, and places the insertionpoint there. You have to remember to delete the
top line and skip to the bottom every time you post, - slips me from time
to time as well)

There's no need to delete the blank line.

--
Ace (bruce dot rogers at roche dot com)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

"Ian Spare" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:58:29 +0100, "Jonathan Gogan"
wrote:


"Ian Spare" was updset enough to wrote
Of course it's !"£$ing ski station, are you on drugs or what?
Before posting drivel again try and get your brain engaged and sort
out your posting style, ie attibution and don't top post.


More Drivel:
I would call 'Station Oz' a ski station. As it is, a, well ... 'ski
station'
I would call St Anotn a village/town as it is a well... town?

The is Europe, it's rec.skiing.resorts.europe, we call a ski station
somewhere that has access to a ski area, like a train station lets you
ride the train.

Thanks for modifying your posting style.
--
Oh Ian,
I am so grateful for your kind words.
I wonder why the 'station' above Oz vilage calls itself a 'station?
Could it be because it is in the French Alps and there a 'station' means a
purpose built 'high-mountain-resort' for recreational skiing as aopposed to
an organic
(old) village usually lower, esp in the valley (like St Anton)
Please ignore above as it is probably drivel as I am obviously on too much
drugs!

p.s. "Modifying style": see 'kettle/pot'

Jonathan "it's all good"

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:41:23 +0200, Ace wrote:


'Mere' is the misleading part here. In French, anywhere there is
skiing is referred to as a Station de Ski. It's in no way connected to
the existence or otherwise of town, village or city.

Quite right, I'd forgotton that the French "stations de ski" was
generally translated as ski resorts until you mentioned it.
Personally, resorts doesn't sound right to me, it suggest places you
vaction in, 90% of my skiing (probably like yours) is weekends in one
of my flats or days from the house (which should improve this year as
we're living near enough for Verbier).

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

Nigel wrote in
:

Lech is still on the same pass as St Anton,St Christoph,Rendl,Zurs. You
can get some great skiing in early December & Lech is one of the few
places that is pretty snow sure . Lech & Zurs is fantastic for
Off-Piste however it will be a little to early for that unless they get
a copuple of huge October/November dumps.

As for Food , you can eat pretty well in Lech, dont expect any McDonalds
kind of places but you can get a cheap Pizza etc. However, it your going
to Lech you may as well lap it all up .The Hotel restaurants are the
best places to eat, the food is top quality , some of the Hotels have
award winning chefs .

You can eat very well on the slopes as well. This place is worth a visit
. "Alter Goldener Berg" http://www.hospiz.com/start.asp

Absolutely - the Hospiz is a fantastic restaurant, and not nearly as
expensive as it looks (for lunch, at any rate). Note that it's not in Lech,
though - it's in St Christoph.

In Lech, it's nice to eat on the terasses of the hotels in Oberlech
(Uberlech? can't remember). Right on the slopes a couple of hundred metres
above the bottom lifts, and facing the sun.

Jeremy

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

All this talk about Lech has convinced me it's a good place to go.
So what are the chances of finding reasonable-priced self catering
accommodation there over new year week (27/12 - 3/1)?

I don't fancy St. Anton - from what I hear it's far too noisy for the
likes of us. I've heard Stuben (I think it was) might be good though...

And coming by car, is there any chance we might not be able to get
there?

If they could sort out their web site, maybe I could check some of
these things for myself, but it keeps crashing my browser.

Adrian
--
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/donate-4-free ais@
Adrian Shaw, Adran Cyfrifiadureg, Prifysgol Cymru, aber.
Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Cymru ac.
http://users.aber.ac.uk/ais uk

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:41:35 +0200, "Ivan Rafn"
wrote:

"Ian Spare" skrev i en meddelelse
.. .
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:58:29 +0100, "Jonathan Gogan"
wrote:


"Ian Spare" was updset enough to wrote
Of course it's !"£$ing ski station, are you on drugs or what?
Before posting drivel again try and get your brain engaged and sort
out your posting style, ie attibution and don't top post.


More Drivel:
I would call 'Station Oz' a ski station. As it is, a, well ... 'ski
station'
I would call St Anotn a village/town as it is a well... town?

The is Europe, it's rec.skiing.resorts.europe, we call a ski station
somewhere that has access to a ski area, like a train station lets you
ride the train.


Hi, I am puzzled too.

Please don't be offended, but in Scandinavia and all cross Europe we would
surely call a town like St. Anton a town. This apparently is different in
UK.
I am curious, how do one differentiate between a town and a mere station?


Why on earth would you want to? They are not mutually exclusive terms.

To me a ski station would be any location with ski lifts which can be
accessed without requiring other lifts. If that happens to be a town,
then it is also a town.

A town is not a definition which has anything to do with skiing.



--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Which way to Castle Anthrax?

To reply by email, my address is aDOTjDOTheneyATbtinternetDOTcom

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:13:37 +0100, "MoonMan"
wrote:

snip

Bottom posting is a pain! it is a remnant of using teletypes. Why can't we
move with the technology?


Because it is NOTHING to do with teletypes.

Bottom posting is the norm because that is the way we read.


I only bottom post, because if you don't you get shouted at. If people
snipped irrelevant text it would not be such a problem, but they don't and I
get ****ed off by having to scroll down through reams of stuff I have read
before to find a 1 line silly comment at the bottom. if it was top posted
life would be much simpler!


Only if you are not interested in the context.

I quite agree that there are too many people who don't snip properly,
but that is actually seen more in top posters than bottom.


If you are actually interested in the context, then top posting is
*much* harder to read, because you have to skip backwards and
forwards.

--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Which way to Castle Anthrax?

To reply by email, my address is aDOTjDOTheneyATbtinternetDOTcom

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

Accomodation in that week is the most expensive & of the season & the
most difficult to get . Most of the self catering units get blocked
booked up by the big scandinavian tour company's. ALot of people
especially from Germany just come down for the New Year celebrations.

Persistance is the name of game in getting accomodation in this period.
I would say that 75% of visitors to the Arlberg are regular repeat
visitors like myself, so we are booked in by default until we cancel.
All the hotels & Landlords are looking for customers who will fill there
houses for a complete week or two.

Goodluck

Nigel

Adrian D. Shaw wrote:
All this talk about Lech has convinced me it's a good place to go.
So what are the chances of finding reasonable-priced self catering
accommodation there over new year week (27/12 - 3/1)?

I don't fancy St. Anton - from what I hear it's far too noisy for the
likes of us. I've heard Stuben (I think it was) might be good though...

And coming by car, is there any chance we might not be able to get
there?

If they could sort out their web site, maybe I could check some of
these things for myself, but it keeps crashing my browser.

Adrian

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

"Ivan Rafn" Wrote:
Hi, I am puzzled too.

Please don't be offended, but in Scandinavia and all cross Europe we would
surely call a town like St. Anton a town. This apparently is different in
UK.
I am curious, how do one differentiate between a town and a mere station?


Thank's for clarification everyone. I will remember to call a Ski Area a
Ski Station from now on.

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

In k, Ivan Rafn typed:
"Ivan Rafn" Wrote:
Hi, I am puzzled too.

Please don't be offended, but in Scandinavia and all cross Europe we
would surely call a town like St. Anton a town. This apparently is
different in UK.
I am curious, how do one differentiate between a town and a mere
station?


Thank's for clarification everyone. I will remember to call a Ski
Area a Ski Station from now on.

But only when in France :-)


--
Chris *:-)

Downhill Good, Uphill BAD!

www.suffolkvikings.org.uk

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

In , Alex Heney typed:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:13:37 +0100, "MoonMan"
wrote:

snip

Bottom posting is a pain! it is a remnant of using teletypes. Why
can't we move with the technology?


Because it is NOTHING to do with teletypes.

Bottom posting is the norm because that is the way we read.

the norm with email is to add your comment at the top, this is why OE
defaults to it. it makes life simpler because the text which you have
responded to is always immediatly below what you are typing. this is still
linear text with the most relevant information at the top and older less
relevant information after it, much more logical and much more usable.

Do you not like HTML because it isn't "the way we read"?

obski the snow comes first, then we ski on top of it!


--
Chris *:-)

Downhill Good, Uphill BAD!

www.suffolkvikings.org.uk




I only bottom post, because if you don't you get shouted at. If
people snipped irrelevant text it would not be such a problem, but
they don't and I get ****ed off by having to scroll down through
reams of stuff I have read before to find a 1 line silly comment at
the bottom. if it was top posted life would be much simpler!


Only if you are not interested in the context.

I quite agree that there are too many people who don't snip properly,
but that is actually seen more in top posters than bottom.


If you are actually interested in the context, then top posting is
*much* harder to read, because you have to skip backwards and
forwards.

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:36:04 +0100, "MoonMan"
wrote:

In , Alex Heney typed:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:13:37 +0100, "MoonMan"
wrote:

snip

Bottom posting is a pain! it is a remnant of using teletypes. Why
can't we move with the technology?

Bottom posting is the norm because that is the way we read.

the norm with email is to add your comment at the top, this is why OE
defaults to it.

a) it's not a universal norm

b) usenet |=email

it makes life simpler because the text which you have
responded to is always immediatly below what you are typing. this is still
linear text with the most relevant information at the top and older less
relevant information after it, much more logical and much more usable.

This may be fine and dandy in a two-way conversation, but usenet just
isn't like that. Somebody might be replying to a thread that's already
ten-deep, and will need to see exactly who said what to whom, in
response to what. This isn't easily done in a top-post stylee.

In internal emails one typically quotes the entirety of each post so
far, so one _could_ read them all, by going to the bottom and working
upwards, but on usenet it's accepted that quoted material is trimmed
to the relevant only.

And there are many occasions, even working in a company where
top-posting email is the rule, that I, and others, have resorted to
putting comments in-line with the previous posting, very much like is
normal on usenet.

Do you not like HTML because it isn't "the way we read"?

Many people use newsreaders that are not HTML-enabled so would be
unable to read it. Usenet is a text-only concept, so it's no good
saying all these peeps should upgrade to the latest Windoze kit,
particularly as many of them will have been around, using textonly
software, since before 'the internet' was born.

--
Ace (bruce dot rogers at roche dot com)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

Yn erthygl , sgrifennodd
Ivan Rafn :
Thank's for clarification everyone. I will remember to call a Ski Area a
Ski Station from now on.

I'm from the UK, but that's not a term I'd use. It sounds american
to me, not english. Heh, it's certainly not Welsh! Hmm, gorsaf sgio...
I like that!

Adrian
--
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/donate-4-free ais@
Adrian Shaw, Adran Cyfrifiadureg, Prifysgol Cymru, aber.
Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Cymru ac.
http://users.aber.ac.uk/ais uk

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

On 28 Aug 2003 16:59:52 +0100, (Adrian D. Shaw) wrote:

All this talk about Lech has convinced me it's a good place to go.
So what are the chances of finding reasonable-priced self catering
accommodation there over new year week (27/12 - 3/1)?

I don't fancy St. Anton - from what I hear it's far too noisy for the
likes of us. I've heard Stuben (I think it was) might be good though...

Lots of people like St Anton, I prefer Lech and Stuben, we go to one
of the two for Xmass and I weekend there pretty often. If you like it
quiet then you'd probably prefer Lech and Stuben. There's Zurs but I'm
not keen, just a collection of expensive hotels on the side of the
road, but other people like it.

Either way, terrific skiing, Lech sometimes seemed overshadowed by St
Anton which is a shame, Lech has some great skiing as well.


And coming by car, is there any chance we might not be able to get
there?

I've never had a problem and I go quite often, it's been interesting a
couple of times :-) Not sure where you coming from or what you're
driving though, in my part of the world we mostly drive on winter
tyres in the winter aqnd I've four wheel drive.


If they could sort out their web site, maybe I could check some of
these things for myself, but it keeps crashing my browser.

Adrian

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

In , Ace typed:
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:36:04 +0100, "MoonMan"
wrote:

In , Alex Heney typed:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:13:37 +0100, "MoonMan"
wrote:

snip

Bottom posting is a pain! it is a remnant of using teletypes. Why
can't we move with the technology?

Bottom posting is the norm because that is the way we read.

the norm with email is to add your comment at the top, this is why OE
defaults to it.

a) it's not a universal norm

b) usenet |=email

I didn't say it was, I was using it as an example just as I was with HTML

it makes life simpler because the text which you have
responded to is always immediatly below what you are typing. this is
still linear text with the most relevant information at the top and
older less relevant information after it, much more logical and much
more usable.

This may be fine and dandy in a two-way conversation, but usenet just
isn't like that. Somebody might be replying to a thread that's already
ten-deep, and will need to see exactly who said what to whom, in
response to what. This isn't easily done in a top-post stylee.

In internal emails one typically quotes the entirety of each post so
far, so one _could_ read them all, by going to the bottom and working
upwards, but on usenet it's accepted that quoted material is trimmed
to the relevant only.


This is mainly my point, if people snipped irrelevant information it
wouldn't matter but the fact is THEY DON'T.

And there are many occasions, even working in a company where
top-posting email is the rule, that I, and others, have resorted to
putting comments in-line with the previous posting, very much like is
normal on usenet.

We use comments in line, usually using different colours, it depends on
wether you are answering the whole message or are answering points.



Do you not like HTML because it isn't "the way we read"?

Many people use newsreaders that are not HTML-enabled so would be
unable to read it. Usenet is a text-only concept, so it's no good
saying all these peeps should upgrade to the latest Windoze kit,
particularly as many of them will have been around, using textonly
software, since before 'the internet' was born.

I did not mean HTML in usenet, Usenet is text only. what I meant was do you
not like Hypertext because as it is not linear it is not the same as the
text we use to read as children.


--
Chris *:-)

Downhill Good, Uphill BAD!

www.suffolkvikings.org.uk

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:36:04 +0100, "MoonMan"
wrote:

In , Alex Heney typed:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:13:37 +0100, "MoonMan"
wrote:

snip

Bottom posting is a pain! it is a remnant of using teletypes. Why
can't we move with the technology?


Because it is NOTHING to do with teletypes.

Bottom posting is the norm because that is the way we read.

the norm with email is to add your comment at the top, this is why OE
defaults to it. it makes life simpler because the text which you have
responded to is always immediatly below what you are typing. this is still
linear text with the most relevant information at the top and older less
relevant information after it, much more logical and much more usable.


With email, you are most commonly making very quick responses, and are
responding to the person who wrote the email specifically, rather than
to a group.

Both of those features mean that you should rarely need to read the
quoted text. When there is a need, it is just as hard to read it
properly with top posted email.

I also strongly suspect that you have cause and effect mixed up when
you say that is why OE does it that way. It is only relatively
recently (since Outlook and OE became the most common mail clients)
that I have come across it as the norm.

Do you not like HTML because it isn't "the way we read"?


I have never seen anything in HTML (other than some newsgroup
postings) which has not had all the paragraphs following in normal
reading order. So no, there is nothing about HTML which is "not the
way we read".

I don't actually think HTML has any place in usenet, but that is a
different issue. that is because it takes around three times as much
bandwidth, and many news clients (including mine) will not render it.
Which they shouldn't, if they are following the standards.


--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Why can't women put the toilet seat back up?

To reply by email, my address is aDOTjDOTheneyATbtinternetDOTcom

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

MoonMan wrote:


Bottom posting is a pain! it is a remnant of using teletypes. Why can't we
move with the technology?

Rubbish !

A. Top posters
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

There's another one along similar lines :

A: Because it upsets the logical flow of the thread.
Q: Why is top posting a bad idea?

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

Ralf Langanke wrote in message ...

I think you need a rental car in innsbruck if you want to reach the
resorts fast.

The local buses leave town at about 9am and take about an hour to get
to the closer ski areas. Return buses are infrequent, so you are
committed to staying even if you have skied all of the runs and are
ready to return.

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

In message , Ian Spare
writes
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:41:23 +0200, Ace wrote:


'Mere' is the misleading part here. In French, anywhere there is
skiing is referred to as a Station de Ski. It's in no way connected to
the existence or otherwise of town, village or city.

Quite right, I'd forgotton that the French "stations de ski" was
generally translated as ski resorts until you mentioned it.
Personally, resorts doesn't sound right to me, it suggest places you
vaction in, 90% of my skiing (probably like yours) is weekends in one
of my flats or days from the house (which should improve this year as
we're living near enough for Verbier).

But you wouldn't call a place a "station de bagnade" if it had only a
beach, would you? You'd expect hotels, a promenade - all the facilities
of a seaside/lakeside resort.
Isn't it the place with two lifts and a cafe that doesn't deserve to be
called a "station"?

(My grandmother went to the hill station each hot weather; Indian
English still has the coastal station too.)
--
Sue ]:(:)

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

David Off wrote:

Ian Spare wrote:
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:24:02 +0100, Sue wrote:


But you wouldn't call a place a "station de bagnade" if it had only a
beach, would you? You'd expect hotels, a promenade - all the facilities
of a seaside/lakeside resort.
Isn't it the place with two lifts and a cafe that doesn't deserve to be
called a "station"?


I assume you mean baignade ?

Sorry, I don't understand. In French we do use the terms station de
ski and staion de montagne, the fact we don't say station de baignade

No, it is 'station balneaire', but you need to know when and when not to
use the expression.

I go to one of those when I want a whale of a time....

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

BrritSki wrote:
David Off wrote:

Ian Spare wrote:

On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:24:02 +0100, Sue wrote:



But you wouldn't call a place a "station de bagnade" if it had only a
beach, would you? You'd expect hotels, a promenade - all the facilities
of a seaside/lakeside resort.
Isn't it the place with two lifts and a cafe that doesn't deserve to be
called a "station"?


I assume you mean baignade ?

Sorry, I don't understand. In French we do use the terms station de
ski and staion de montagne, the fact we don't say station de baignade

No, it is 'station balneaire', but you need to know when and when not to
use the expression.


I go to one of those when I want a whale of a time....

tout a fait :-)

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

"Ace" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:24:02 +0100, Sue wrote:

But you wouldn't call a place a "station de bagnade" if it had only a
beach, would you? You'd expect hotels, a promenade - all the facilities
of a seaside/lakeside resort.

Well it may be a moot point, but if I saw somewhere on the coast
marked as a 'Station de Baignade' I would _expect_ access to the sea,
be it beach or jetty, possibly a lifeguard, maybe even a shower. Shops
& cafés would be a bonus, hotels & promenade unlikely.

That's what _I_ would take it to mean, if such a term was used.

Isn't it the place with two lifts and a cafe that doesn't deserve to be
called a "station"?

Ace ecrit:
Sounds like the term is ideally suited. It would be innacurate to call
such a place a 'resort'. What term would you prefer?

drivel
My point entirely.
/drivel
--
--
Jonathan

Why Is Austria Skiing Dirt Cheap For USA Right Now?
 

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:53:15 +0100, "Jonathan Gogan"
wrote:

"Ace" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:24:02 +0100, Sue wrote:

snip

To make it easier to read just your comments, you might like to change
your outlook settings to prefix each line of quoted text with a ,
like what most other folk do. Also you could try snipping unneeded
test in the post you're quoting.

Ace ecrit:
Sounds like the term is ideally suited. It would be innacurate to call
such a place a 'resort'. What term would you prefer?

drivel
My point entirely.
/drivel

Eh? Not entirely, I feel, as you were the one saying we should _not_
use station for anywhere that was large enough to call a town, which
is not what I was saying at all.

--
Ace (bruce dot rogers at roche dot com)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.