Pilot Classic - Why
 

I have Salomon bindings on all my skis and have used Pilot skate
bindings for many troublefree years. I have 3 year old Carbon classic
boots and Profil bindings on all my classic skis. I generally am
happy with the company's products.

I have a couple of friends who have the Pilot classic set up, some
with Salomon, some with Atomic. (as far as I can tell, the mechanism
is exactly the same?)

These friends claim that they really like the Pilot classic binding,
that it is an improvement for skiing (but not a huge improvement, and
who knows, they may just be imagining it)

BUT

They have also had problems with the binding when it's cold and
therefore use older classic skis with Profil bindings (with modified
bumper) when it's cold. In other words, they have resigned themselves
to needing different skis and bindings when it's cold and either need
two excellent, front line pair each with a different binding, or must
use their older, less desirable skis when it's cold. These are
serious recreational skiers who do race, but do not own a "quiver" of
skis. Like most of us, they have their "best" skis and some older
"rock" skis. We live in a cold climate, and it's common to do quite a
bit of skiing in temps below -5 F.

This to me is an unacceptable and a major failure for Salomon that
people should be concerned about. It has led me to a theory of why
Salomon developed the Pilot... it was not for improved performance.
There may or may not be improved perforemance, but even if there is,
I'll bet it's not significant at all.

The change was to adjust to the Skiathalon or Pursuit format. By
making both skate and classic bindings and boots Pilot, they are now
fully compatable, like NNN has always been. The company can then
market a combi boot that with a Pilot sole which can be used with both
the skate and classic binding. In the old system, skiers had to use a
Profil skate binding with their Salomon combi boots. I'm sure the
company was embarrassed by this deficiency.

The Pilot classic may be a better situation for the limited number of
skiers who need or desire that feature, who have a quiver of good skis
and therefore can dedicate some to cold weather/Profile use, or who
only ski, race or train in above 0F temps. But it is a downgrade for
the rest of us who need a reliable cold weather classic binding and an
unacceptable technology failure.

This is almost enough to make me switch to NNN when I next need
boots. It just ****es me off.

Pilot Classic - Why
 

On Feb 19, 1:40*pm, Camilo wrote:
I have Salomon bindings on all my skis and have used Pilot skate
bindings for many troublefree years. *I have 3 year old Carbon classic
boots and Profil bindings on all my classic skis. *I generally am
happy with the company's products.

I have a couple of friends who have the Pilot classic set up, some
with Salomon, some with Atomic. (as far as I can tell, the mechanism
is exactly the same?)

These friends claim that they really like the Pilot classic binding,
that it is an improvement for skiing (but not a huge improvement, and
who knows, they may just be imagining it)

BUT

They have also had problems with the binding when it's cold and
therefore use older classic skis with Profil bindings (with modified
bumper) when it's cold. In other words, they have resigned themselves
to needing different skis and bindings when it's cold and either need
two excellent, front line pair each with a different binding, or must
use their older, less desirable skis when it's cold. *These are
serious recreational skiers who do race, but do not own a "quiver" of
skis. *Like most of us, they have their "best" skis and some older
"rock" skis. *We live in a cold climate, and it's common to do quite a
bit of skiing in temps below -5 F.

This to me is an unacceptable and a major failure for Salomon that
people should be concerned about. *It has led me to a theory of why
Salomon developed the Pilot... it was not for improved performance.
There may or may not be improved perforemance, but even if there is,
I'll bet it's not significant at all.

The change was to adjust to the Skiathalon or Pursuit format. *By
making both skate and classic bindings and boots Pilot, they are now
fully compatable, like NNN has always been. *The company can then
market a combi boot that with a Pilot sole which can be used with both
the skate and classic binding. *In the old system, skiers had to use a
Profil skate binding with their Salomon combi boots. *I'm sure the
company was embarrassed by this deficiency.

The Pilot classic may be a better situation for the limited number of
skiers who need or desire that feature, who have a quiver of good skis
and therefore can dedicate some to cold weather/Profile use, or who
only ski, race or train in above 0F temps. *But it is a downgrade for
the rest of us who need a reliable cold weather classic binding and an
unacceptable technology failure.

This is almost enough to make me switch to NNN when I next need
boots. *It just ****es me off.

I wrote about the Pilot 2 Classic binding a few weeks ago at this
site. It was actually last year I knew there was something wrong with
the new binding. The kevlar strap wouldn't retract in certain
conditions. I switched my classic bindings to Rottefella, but the new
Rossi and Alpina classic boots weren't the way to go. First off the
lacing systems on both are a really poor design compared to the
Salomon kevlar lacing system. Moreover, I missed the feel of Salomon
boots so much I began switching the bindings back. So now I'm dealing
with the occassional clicking and odd feeling of the Pilot 2 classic
bindings in certain conditions. My quiver now has some older Profils
with the flexors trimmed down and the new bindings. If I get a chance
I may demo the new Fischer classic boot and see if the quick lock
lacing system is better than the Rossis and Alpina's. The bottom line
is I blew a lot of cash trying to get it right.

Pilot Classic - Why
 

I almost abandoned classic skiing and do it occasionally, say every
three years. Nevertheless I can tell that Pilot boots on Profil
bindings is perfectly OK. This is my gear for hundreds km roller
skiing (because Pilot bindings are heavy and my rear wheel then drags
the road).

Pilot skate bindings solves problems that few persons have : "clap"
ski and twisted binding The drawback is additional weight (and that
****es me off).

I don't know for the Pilot classic binding, but I have the feeling
that it solves a problem that Salomon corp has ; selling more or dying

Pilot Classic - Why
 

Maybe, but since you didn't specify the problem(s) your friends are/were
having, it's hard to know how seriously to take the rest. Were the
bindings well lubricated?

rm

Camilo wrote:

I have Salomon bindings on all my skis and have used Pilot skate
bindings for many troublefree years. I have 3 year old Carbon classic
boots and Profil bindings on all my classic skis. I generally am
happy with the company's products.

I have a couple of friends who have the Pilot classic set up, some
with Salomon, some with Atomic. (as far as I can tell, the mechanism
is exactly the same?)

These friends claim that they really like the Pilot classic binding,
that it is an improvement for skiing (but not a huge improvement, and
who knows, they may just be imagining it)

BUT

They have also had problems with the binding when it's cold and
therefore use older classic skis with Profil bindings (with modified
bumper) when it's cold. In other words, they have resigned themselves
to needing different skis and bindings when it's cold and either need
two excellent, front line pair each with a different binding, or must
use their older, less desirable skis when it's cold. These are
serious recreational skiers who do race, but do not own a "quiver" of
skis. Like most of us, they have their "best" skis and some older
"rock" skis. We live in a cold climate, and it's common to do quite a
bit of skiing in temps below -5 F.

This to me is an unacceptable and a major failure for Salomon that
people should be concerned about. It has led me to a theory of why
Salomon developed the Pilot... it was not for improved performance.
There may or may not be improved perforemance, but even if there is,
I'll bet it's not significant at all.

The change was to adjust to the Skiathalon or Pursuit format. By
making both skate and classic bindings and boots Pilot, they are now
fully compatable, like NNN has always been. The company can then
market a combi boot that with a Pilot sole which can be used with both
the skate and classic binding. In the old system, skiers had to use a
Profil skate binding with their Salomon combi boots. I'm sure the
company was embarrassed by this deficiency.

The Pilot classic may be a better situation for the limited number of
skiers who need or desire that feature, who have a quiver of good skis
and therefore can dedicate some to cold weather/Profile use, or who
only ski, race or train in above 0F temps. But it is a downgrade for
the rest of us who need a reliable cold weather classic binding and an
unacceptable technology failure.

This is almost enough to make me switch to NNN when I next need
boots. It just ****es me off.

Pilot Classic - Why
 

I have used the Pilot classic bindings for some of last season and all
of this (358km of classic so far this season, I keep a spreadsheet
which makes me a nerd, but a nordic nerd!). I ski in western Colorado
at an elevation of 10,000+ feet. This has been a cold and snowy winter
in the Rockies with 7 feet of snow on our trails. Anyway, I have had
near perfect performance from the bindings. Once or twice, the hook
unclicked from the back bar, but hooked right back in. I have read
that Kikkan Randall had some problems in a race. They seem like a nice
binding, but I would live with the bumper Profils if I had it to do
over again. The difference is subtle. The new Salomon boots, on the
other hand, are wonderful and worth every penny.

What are you all using for a binding lubricant?

Pilot Classic - Why
 

The new Salomon boots, on the
other hand, are wonderful and worth every penny.

That's a point. The skate "slab" boots are perfect for me.
A complete new world from what Salomon had proposed up to now.

Pilot Classic - Why
 

Seems like the main problem with the classic pilot is that the spring gets
loaded with snow. I wonder if salomon has considered replacing that with a
'rubber band' of sorts. You wouldn't be able to adjust the tension as
easily but I wonder how many people actually adjust that after the first few
times skiing.

Andrew Gerlach from Salomon/Subaru Factory Team replied to to an earlier
thread regardding pilot classic.

Sorry you are having problems with the bindings.


1) Salomon Pilot classic bindings benefits from lubrication much as a
bike
chain does. We suggest you spray the hook and the internals (pull the
hook
out and spray into binding) with silicon spray. Do this every 500 km.
2) We have a new insert called the Pilot Classic Protector that is a
free
part available to our retailers goes under the rear portion of the
binding
that incases the spring. It takes about 2 minutes to install. If your
shop
does not have them they can order them from Salomon customer service.
3) Make sure the boots and bindings are as clean as possible before
you
start skiing. If they start clean the stay very snow free. If they
start
with snow then snow builds up.

If you have further question please call or email.

Andrew Gerlach
Salomon Nordic
Factory Team www.enjoywinter.com

Dave

wrote in message
...
The new Salomon boots, on the
other hand, are wonderful and worth every penny.

That's a point. The skate "slab" boots are perfect for me.
A complete new world from what Salomon had proposed up to now.

Pilot Classic - Why
 

I'm not clear what that Protector Gerlach mentions is, but it sounds
like it's meant to be a solution to snow build up around the spring.

rm

"Dave M-K" wrote:

Seems like the main problem with the classic pilot is that the spring gets
loaded with snow. I wonder if salomon has considered replacing that with a
'rubber band' of sorts. You wouldn't be able to adjust the tension as
easily but I wonder how many people actually adjust that after the first few
times skiing.

Andrew Gerlach from Salomon/Subaru Factory Team replied to to an earlier
thread regardding pilot classic.

Sorry you are having problems with the bindings.

2) We have a new insert called the Pilot Classic Protector that is a
free
part available to our retailers goes under the rear portion of the
binding
that incases the spring. It takes about 2 minutes to install. If your
shop
does not have them they can order them from Salomon customer service.

Pilot Classic - Why
 

On Feb 20, 9:49*am, wrote:
I'm not clear what that Protector Gerlach mentions is, but it sounds
like it's meant to be a solution to snow build up around the spring.

Well, kids, I just held one of these in my hand so I'll tell y'all
what it is!

It is basically a plastic baseplate that the binding will snap into,
sandwiching between the binding and the top sheet of the ski. It is
supposed to limit the snow and moisture from forming in the spring and
strap.

One of my teammates went to the Keski and hear is what she said to me
-

"I asked the Salomon guys at the Gatineau Loppet on the weekend and
they told me that they're now providing a white plastic piece that
fits underneath the binding and supposedly prevents the moisture / ice
buildup. They instructed all their retailers to install these with
the bindings at the end of the season last year when they realized
there were big problems. So the shops in Ottawa are all doing this,
and told me it has solved all the problems .. of course this was the
first time I'd ever heard anybody admit there was a problem in the
first place."

She was able to get several from the shops in Ottawa, but went on to
say any "high-end" shop should have these. My shop does not appear to
know about these, however.

- Bob

I don't think your assumption of creating the pilot classic binding just for the pursuit is quite accurate considering the old pilot skate boots and pursuit boots were compatable with the profile bindings. The carbon and race skate boots have been used in pursuits with the profile bindings no problem.

The new bindings allow you to adjust the tension in the binding which can be useful especially during sprints and it has removed the tension in the toe that the old profile bindings caused.

I enjoy the new bindings and as long as you keep them clean and lubricate them once in a while the bindings works perfectly. I don't see how you can complain about some simple maintainance ever so often...