On the computaion of FIS points
 

Hi,

I am trying to figure out how FIS points are computed for each skier
on the WC. In the FIS Website, the cross-country formula is the
folowing:

P = (F x Ti/To) - F

where

P: race points
Ti: time of the skier
To: time of the winner
F: the F factor, varying from 800 for competions with interval start
to 1400 for competitions with mass start or pursuit.

As an example, here are some results using the formula:

Racer Time F factor Race points
1 00:36:08 1400 0
2 00:37:08 1400 38.75
3 00:38:08 1400 77.49
4 00:39:08 1400 116.24
5 00:40:08 1400 154.98

The better the performance, the lower the number of race points. There
are also so-called "Penalty points" that are added to race points at
each race based on actuel FIS points of the five best racers (a "race
quality" factor).

However, when looking at the skiers FIS points in the FIS Website
(www.fis-ski.com), the winner is awarded, let say, 100 points, 80
points to the second, 60 to the third, and so on up to the 30th skier
in a given race.

Does anyone know what is the relationship bettween the FIS race points
(going up with worse performance) and the FIS point rankings (gong
down with worse performance)?

One who cares about numbers,

RO

On the computaion of FIS points
 

Does anyone know what is the relationship bettween the FIS race points
(going up with worse performance) and the FIS point rankings (gong
down with worse performance)?

One who cares about numbers,

RO

You are confusing oranges with bananas here. ;)

One thing is the FIS ranking, used for determining athletes start
lists, the other is the World Cup rankings, which are the ones who
counts at the end of the year.

The FIS rankings, similar the ATP rankings, is composed only of the 5
best results of the past 12 months (the FIS list, however, are not
updated weekly, but using some criteria that I don´t really know).
After every FIS race, there is some Penalty points that are used for
calculate the FIS rankings. In this case, we can call the "negative
points system".

The FIS World Cup Rankings are composed by the sum of all WC events
along the CC season. The WC races, like Formula 1, give points for the
racers according to their position. In this case, the more the better.
The best overall CC skier is the one who acumulate more points (only
at WC races) along the season. This will be the "positive points
system".

The relationship between the FIS points and the FIS World Cup points?
None. You can be the best skier in the FIS rankings because you were
great in a couple of non-WC races and don´t collect a single point
during the WC races.

After all that, and making a little more confusing, there are some
skiing disciplines (like snowboarding) that use the positive points
system for their FIS rankings and qualification system, so you might
be reading the points system in another area.

I hope I helped a little bit and didn´t confuse you even more.

On the computaion of FIS points
 

I also tried to understand how to compute FIS points system some years
back, but ended up shaking my head. Those other points awarded with
each race, 100-80-60-etc., are for the (FIS) World Cup competition
within each season and just add arithmetically, and end with the
season. The FIS points system is meant to be used across the entire
sport of FIS-sanctioned competition over time. It's supposedly a way to
compare the performance of skiers who don't meet head to head and do
races at various levels (national, world cup, marathon). Those top-5
quality points are a way of factoring in the level of competition.

Gene

wrote:

Hi,

I am trying to figure out how FIS points are computed for each skier
on the WC. In the FIS Website, the cross-country formula is the
folowing:

P = (F x Ti/To) - F

where

P: race points
Ti: time of the skier
To: time of the winner
F: the F factor, varying from 800 for competions with interval start
to 1400 for competitions with mass start or pursuit.

As an example, here are some results using the formula:

Racer Time F factor Race points
1 00:36:08 1400 0
2 00:37:08 1400 38.75
3 00:38:08 1400 77.49
4 00:39:08 1400 116.24
5 00:40:08 1400 154.98

The better the performance, the lower the number of race points. There
are also so-called "Penalty points" that are added to race points at
each race based on actuel FIS points of the five best racers (a "race
quality" factor).

However, when looking at the skiers FIS points in the FIS Website
(www.fis-ski.com), the winner is awarded, let say, 100 points, 80
points to the second, 60 to the third, and so on up to the 30th skier
in a given race.

Does anyone know what is the relationship bettween the FIS race points
(going up with worse performance) and the FIS point rankings (gong
down with worse performance)?

One who cares about numbers,

RO

On the computaion of FIS points
 

On 18 fév, 10:22, Rominger wrote:


I hope I helped a little bit and didn´t confuse you even more.

Thanks Rominger for the clarification. Sometimes things look simpler
than they appear.

RO

On the computaion of FIS points
 

But a question comes to me: if the FIS points (negative point system)
serve only for determining the start list, what does happen if the
"red group" wants to start first intead at the end of the next race,
let say, beacuase of bad snow conditions?

RO

On the computaion of FIS points
 

On Feb 18, 3:21*pm, wrote:
But a question comes to me: if the FIS points (negative point system)
serve only for determining the start list, what does happen if the
"red group" wants to start first intead at the end of the next race,
let say, beacuase of bad snow conditions?

RO

Last year in Liberec, they changed the start order because of the
horrible snow conditions. Back then, the top racers went first.
Apparently this is something that is discussed between the organizers
and the FIS delegates and varies from case to case. But normally, the
red group start later, just like in road cycling time trial. And,
sometimes, the guys who go early have a better weather condition and
grab some podiums. Luck is always part of the game.

Statistically, though, it is fair to say that going last is normally
more advantageous, not only because you know the time splits, but the
first starters might find some problems at the track that the latest
can avoid, I think you have an idea.

In Biathlon, as far as I know, the starting order system is different
(no idea how it is defined) and the top racers are more spread around
the field.

On the computaion of FIS points
 

I thought some section of the Red Group racers or coaches got to request
to start first or last. Normally, they go out last, but conditions
can dictate the change. If they go out first, I think the WC leader
is first one out.

Gene

Rominger wrote:

On Feb 18, 3:21*pm, wrote:
But a question comes to me: if the FIS points (negative point system)
serve only for determining the start list, what does happen if the
"red group" wants to start first intead at the end of the next race,
let say, beacuase of bad snow conditions?

RO

Last year in Liberec, they changed the start order because of the
horrible snow conditions. Back then, the top racers went first.
Apparently this is something that is discussed between the organizers
and the FIS delegates and varies from case to case. But normally, the
red group start later, just like in road cycling time trial. And,
sometimes, the guys who go early have a better weather condition and
grab some podiums. Luck is always part of the game.

Statistically, though, it is fair to say that going last is normally
more advantageous, not only because you know the time splits, but the
first starters might find some problems at the track that the latest
can avoid, I think you have an idea.

In Biathlon, as far as I know, the starting order system is different
(no idea how it is defined) and the top racers are more spread around
the field.