On 10 Mar 2005 14:26:49 -0800, "lonerider"
wrote:

Has anyone gotten a pair of the K2 Cinch bindings?

I demoed a pair for 2-3 hours.

Short answer: I didn't care for them.

They are easier to use than Flows, and, more importantly to many
people, easily adjustable on the mountain over the course of the day.
Very convenient.

However, they are not the least bit stiff. Fully engaged, I could
phyically twist the binding side to side. I think this is what will
kill this design. There is just too much torsional flex. May be
wonderful for the pipe and park, but not for all mountain riding IMO.

-- Robert

Robert Stevahn wrote:
On 10 Mar 2005 14:26:49 -0800, "lonerider"
wrote:

Has anyone gotten a pair of the K2 Cinch bindings?

I demoed a pair for 2-3 hours.

Short answer: I didn't care for them.

They are easier to use than Flows, and, more importantly to many
people, easily adjustable on the mountain over the course of the day.
Very convenient.

However, they are not the least bit stiff. Fully engaged, I could
phyically twist the binding side to side. I think this is what will
kill this design. There is just too much torsional flex. May be
wonderful for the pipe and park, but not for all mountain riding IMO.

-- Robert

I think the convenience factor is the mainly attractiveness of the
binding and most people who buy them have no idea about performance.
Hopefully, they will come up with a more performance oriented version
if the bindings if they come popular. In my mind I still associate
Flows bindings with the earlier models which had a super flimsy (shiny
faux chrome plastic) highback and a soft, stretchable cable. Mark was
trying to build in a flow-style highback into a pair of Catek
Freerides, but I think he gave up on that endeavor. Anyone else care to
try?

Yep, gave up on that Catek/Flow hybrid idea rather quickly. Just went
to hard boots 100% of the time. Raichle 123s for most days, Lowa
Struktura AT Ski Boots for powder and backcountry days.

The cables are plenty strong these days. Before I stopped using them
this past winter, my Flow BX-21s had well north of 50 days with no
problems. My wife has a pair of FL5s from 2000 that have easily 100
days on them (she has just one pair of bindings) with no trouble.
She's gone through 3 sets of foot straps, but those are easily replaced
for a song at the end of the season. Actually, she threw a screw once,
but after a dab of locktite on the replacement, we've never had any
trouble.

In my experience, there are two possible problems with Flows. They
don't seem to work well for guys who like lots of forward lean. Also,
some boots with wide heels don't fit all that well.

The Catek's were higher performance (closer to hard boots), but I
*hated* sitting down to strap in.

Just this season I replaced my three year old Flows (F11s I think) with a
set of Cateks Freerides.
Loved the flows (my first set after renting strap-ins) but as I became a
better boarder, I found they did not have the forward side support I needed.
They were fine heal side but lacked on toe side, this lead to excess strain
on my ankles. Friend of mine bought a Flow set this year a noted a similar
thing, but found it could be fixed by really tightening the top strap. This
works for him, but is a little harder when trying to stuff a 13 sized shoe
into a large Flow binding. So maybe this will work for some. Also another
thing I didn't like about the flows was landing jumps, they felt very flimsy
with a plastic rattle to them. Although they had a few problems, I did
really like my flow bindings.

The Cateks have no such rattle to them upon landing and feel very firm and
confident on all surfaces. They are a little heavy and strapping into them
is a pain. I modified them with a set of Burton toe straps which are nice
as they relieve pressure across the top of the foot but have not decided if
they are as responsive as normal straps. Also another note about the toe
straps is that they put the ratchet farther from you, (around the end of
your foot than across the top) if you are flexible this is not a problem but
for tall people with big feet it is a problem. Have thought about modifying
the Cateks to a flow like system but have not started that yet. Fortunately
I have a whole metals workshop to help me with that. Will let the group
know if I get something worked up.

Final comment: Flows are very nice for many reasons and I would recommend
them to anyone looking for a "fast, good quality binding for freeriding" (my
only experience is freeride can not comment on park and pipe). If you are
looking for something specialized or maximum performance, perhaps a strap
system would be better.

Ed


"Mark.Andersen" wrote in message
oups.com...
Yep, gave up on that Catek/Flow hybrid idea rather quickly. Just went
to hard boots 100% of the time. Raichle 123s for most days, Lowa
Struktura AT Ski Boots for powder and backcountry days.

The cables are plenty strong these days. Before I stopped using them
this past winter, my Flow BX-21s had well north of 50 days with no
problems. My wife has a pair of FL5s from 2000 that have easily 100
days on them (she has just one pair of bindings) with no trouble.
She's gone through 3 sets of foot straps, but those are easily replaced
for a song at the end of the season. Actually, she threw a screw once,
but after a dab of locktite on the replacement, we've never had any
trouble.

In my experience, there are two possible problems with Flows. They
don't seem to work well for guys who like lots of forward lean. Also,
some boots with wide heels don't fit all that well.

The Catek's were higher performance (closer to hard boots), but I
*hated* sitting down to strap in.

You all say that the flow bindings aren't stiif enough and don't provide
enough support, but I only hear you speak about the lower end models. Did
anyone try the high end Pro C -XFR model that they say has plenty of
support.
I've been riding on flows for 5 years now and next week I'll order a pair of
Pro C -XFR to go with my new Nitro Atlas 164.
Any experience with the high end model?

First, I don't work for Flow; I ride dipsquat little molehills in the
midwest that require about 50 hookups per day, so ease of entry & exit
is paramount. Stepins are unacceptable; Clickers are anathema. There
had to be something other than straps.........

The problem w/ Flow bindings is not the lack of support; it is a
problem of proper setup. These bindings require a boot that fits the
system, and the ability of someone to tweak them into position for the
days riding.

Simple things to like a single "click" on their adjustment system makes
a difference; since there are 8 of these things, and about 9-12
settings for each, that means there are approx. 75-100 possibilities.
It takes a fair amount of time to figure out where your settings need
to be. The plus side, & it really isn't that complicated, is that
after getting tuned, you can visually tweak individual clamps very
quickly on any given day for the conditions. IOW, get tuned, it gets
really easy after that. Also, for anyone that has memories of Flow of
old, forget it; the old ones were comically crappy, the new ones are
very nicely mfg. components out of the highest quality material.

None of the service or sales rep's get that part, so it doesn't get
pushed into the public conciousness. Given the penchant for wild eyed
youth to disdain the focus necessary to take the time to tune their
bindings, they are still relegated to secondary status. Couple that
w/marketing blitz by the strap cartel (basically, everyone else), and
the Flow gets marginalized.

Unfortunate, because it's the coolest binding on the planet.

Hey after six years of riding with straps I got a pair of last years Pro.
and I love them. I went out and got my son and daughter each a pair. I'm 53
and after a day of riding you can really appreciate the ease in getting in
and out. The only fault is if you bail in deep powder they can be a bitch
to get out of Later Richard

Dean wrote:
Colin McAlpine CS2001 wrote:

i'm looking at getting the Amp5 FR.


Why that model rather than the Pro 11-FR?

Dean

It was a money issue that I'm glad to say has been resolved and I'm now
going for the Pro-11 FR.

Colin McAlpine CS2001 wrote:
It was a money issue that I'm glad to say has been resolved and I'm now
going for the Pro-11 FR.

You should be able to find a deal on the Pro 11-FR if anyone has them in
stock. I paid $140 at a local store during the spring sale last year.

Dean

I've been riding Tech 9 for 4 years and just switched to Flow. I tried
to like them, but have not been happy. This past weekend was a rare
powder day in VT and I had a hard time getting my boot in and out of
the flow due to snow and Ice build up. I also felt they were sloppy
holding the boot back to the heal. I'm back to the Tech 9's. The Flows
are for sale.