|
Finding a Strong Edge - Advice for Hard Pistes???
I'm just back from La Plagne. Conditions were generally very good
with a dusting of fresh snow on hard pistes. A handful of very busy areas had thin cover with the odd stone popping through. I don't know why the piste machines didn't grab snow from elsewhere (there was plenty slightly off-piste) ...perhaps there are environmental restrictions? On day 2, I got a 2 hour private lesson. The snow off-piste (near the resort) had become too hard to really practice but I was shown that it is essential to lean away from the slope to get the skis to turn under those conditions. I was also shown how to improve stopping (by absorbing some of the speed by bringing the downhill ski under my body and, again, getting more upper body weight away from the slopes so the hips [edges] are digging into the slope. The final area covered by my lesson was what to do when the slope has really hard-packed snow. I said that this had been a problem area with our holiday last year (Courmayeur) and was also relevant to the steeper sections of La Plagne. The instructor advised me that I was rotating my body towards the turn which was the opposite to what was really required to get a strong edge. In addition, he suggested that I push the tongue of the boot towards the turn - I imagined pushing the boot towards the front binding on my other ski. There was an immediate improvement but my lesson finished before I could really practice this. Over the next few days, I started to really push forward on my boots but I was never able to get a really strong edge unless I started the turn very slowly. It seemed that the process works best when the tongues of both boots are slightly 'weighted' prior to the 2nd half of the turn where the knees are bent and the body lowered. After that, I found that I had to shift my weight back slightly so that it was evenly over my boots to stop the skis skidding. Can anyone comment on anything that I'm doing wrong here? My skiing on hard pistes has really improved but I'd like to get this area resolved so that I can progress to steeper slopes with confidence. Thanks in advance!! (and let me know if you've got any questions about La Plagne - while I still remember!) Niall |
Can anyone comment on anything that I'm doing wrong here? My skiing
on hard pistes has really improved but I'd like to get this area resolved so that I can progress to steeper slopes with confidence. Hire skiis or your own? (ie, shot edges) It could be too that you have beginners skiis which are narrower and softer in the tail. This will cause a tail skid unles you are very light at the start of the turn. Also, pushing into the front of the boot is an old technique fomr the days of straight skiis, with carvers you weight the ski through the balls of your feet. Apart form that, make sure you get a good edge change (and good edge angle by getting your knee well under your body) |
On 31 Jan 2006 06:56:17 -0800, "fat_boy" wrote:
Can anyone comment on anything that I'm doing wrong here? My skiing on hard pistes has really improved but I'd like to get this area resolved so that I can progress to steeper slopes with confidence. Hire skiis or your own? (ie, shot edges) It could be too that you have beginners skiis which are narrower and softer in the tail. This will cause a tail skid unles you are very light at the start of the turn. Christ almighty, I thought we'd already plumbed the depths of your ignorance. Note to the OP: I'd ignore anything this guy says; if by chance he gets anything right it's likely that it's just that - pure chance. -- Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club. |
"It could be too that you have beginners skiis which are narrower and
softer in the tail. This will cause a tail skid unles you are very light at the start of the turn." - No! We actually did really well with the skis. Booked online with intersport and got streetracers for 56 euros for 6 days (with a special offer for one days hire free ...that we didn't use). "Also, pushing into the front of the boot is an old technique fomr the days of straight skiis, with carvers you weight the ski through the balls of your feet." - So when people say that racers are able to get better grip because they have really strong muscles, are they pushing down on the balls of their feet? "Apart form that, make sure you get a good edge change (and good edge angle by getting your knee well under your body)" - I hadn't thought about looking it that way - keeping the knees under my body! I'll have to wait for snow in Scotland before I can see if that helps ...and that might be some time!! Getting grip on hard packed snow is my main trouble so it's great to hear any comments on technique that might help!! Niall |
On 30 Jan 2006 05:31:12 -0800, "Niall" wrote:
The final area covered by my lesson was what to do when the slope has really hard-packed snow. Over the next few days, I started to really push forward on my boots but I was never able to get a really strong edge unless I started the turn very slowly. It seemed that the process works best when the tongues of both boots are slightly 'weighted' prior to the 2nd half of the turn where the knees are bent and the body lowered. After that, I found that I had to shift my weight back slightly so that it was evenly over my boots to stop the skis skidding. Can anyone comment on anything that I'm doing wrong here? My skiing on hard pistes has really improved but I'd like to get this area resolved so that I can progress to steeper slopes with confidence. Quite difficult to imagine, from your description, but my own advice for hard pistes and/or ice would be this: As is true nearly all the time, your weight should be well-balanced, neither forward nor backward of the centre of the ski. If you find that you're getting pitched back, which is what it sounds like, you might like to imagine tensing up your ankle muscles to bring the shin forwards - it's essential that the weight is controlled by the knees being pulled forwrdas, rather than pushing the rest of the body over from the hips. So, what sort of turn-initiation are you using? If we're basically talking about carving here, i.e. you're trying to ski in a clean arc with no rotation or skidding, then there won't be any sudden movement to start the turn, just a gradual (but quite fast) change of weight from one ski to the next. This will initially have the effect of changing the edge as well, as you start to lean the other way. If you're well-centred, then the edge shape of the ski will naturally start to make a smooth turn. The more weight you get on this ski, the more it will bend (and turn more tightly) and the further away from your body you'll be able to push it. Now, the bit you're asking about is how to get the edge to grip. I have this problem with my Pocket Rocket skis, which are basically not intended to be good on hard snow and ice, so the only way I can make them work is to get them leaning at a much greater angle to the snow than would normally be required. Imagine the trunk of the body being upright, with the legspushing out to form an angle with them. The greater this angle (from the vertical) the more the ski edges are going to be able to cut into the ice. There are a couple of interesting points about this: 1. You need to be skiing fast for it to work, as you just can;t lean over that much at low speed; 2. If your weight is _not_ centred the ski won't be able to carve cleanly, and it will try and rotate around a point in front of or behind your feet, leadning to a loss of grip, often noticeably at the rear of the ski leading to the old 'skidding the tails' syndrome. So in short, get, and keep, your weight in the right place and let the ski do the work. -- Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club. |
Christ almighty, I thought we'd already plumbed the depths of your
ignorance. Note to the OP: I'd ignore anything this guy says; if by chance he gets anything right it's likely that it's just that - pure chance. Oh my god, I have a stalker. 8( |
Felly sgrifennodd Ace :
So in short, get, and keep, your weight in the right place and let the ski do the work. Knees into the hill as much as reasonably possible increases the angle of the base to the piste, thus giving a better edge. You can do this even at slower speed. If you're not carving (maybe the slope's too steep), then really concentrate on getting the greatest angle you can. Otherwise, yes as Ace says. Rule: If your gloves aren't torn to shreds by the end of the holiday through carrying your skis, then your edges probably weren't sharp enough. Adrian -- Adrian Shaw ais@ Adran Cyfrifiadureg, Prifysgol Cymru, aber. Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Cymru ac. http://users.aber.ac.uk/ais uk |
Niall wrote: "It could be too that you have beginners skiis which are narrower and softer in the tail. This will cause a tail skid unles you are very light at the start of the turn." - No! We actually did really well with the skis. Booked online with intersport and got streetracers for 56 euros for 6 days (with a special offer for one days hire free ...that we didn't use). "Also, pushing into the front of the boot is an old technique fomr the days of straight skiis, with carvers you weight the ski through the balls of your feet." - So when people say that racers are able to get better grip because they have really strong muscles, are they pushing down on the balls of their feet? "Apart form that, make sure you get a good edge change (and good edge angle by getting your knee well under your body)" - I hadn't thought about looking it that way - keeping the knees under my body! I'll have to wait for snow in Scotland before I can see if that helps ...and that might be some time!! Getting grip on hard packed snow is my main trouble so it's great to hear any comments on technique that might help!! Niall Something else occued to me, check your boots are over the centerline of the ski. If the bot is to fat back (hapens if you borrow skiis set up for a smaller foot) you will weight the tail too much. Also, if your bots have cuff canter, make sure when you stand upright the ski is flat. If you have slightly bowed legs you might find the ski sits on its outside edge when you stand making it harder to get it onto the inside edge. But generally, when you start a turn get your turning knee well under you, and as the G force builds up use hip lean to get more edge angle. What I do is try to lift the little toes off the sole while pressing with the big toe joint. I find it helps me as I like my boot cuff to be not too tight. When you do start getting god edging you will see it on your skiis; #1 Any scratches will be along the length of the ski, never sideways. #2 After some heavy use, the base of the ski will be lighter along the outside 1 inch than in the middle. This is where the pressure really builds up and it shows on the base. |
In message , Ace
writes As is true nearly all the time, your weight should be well-balanced, neither forward nor backward of the centre of the ski. If you find Where's the centre? There's more ski in front of the foot than behind [1] so it isn't midway between tip and tail. [1] None of us knows anything about snowboarding, so we didn't realise the same was true of snowboards. Our novice boarder did very well considering he was riding it backwards! -- Sue ];(:) |
On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 22:56:20 +0000, MadCow wrote:
In message , Ace writes As is true nearly all the time, your weight should be well-balanced, neither forward nor backward of the centre of the ski. If you find Where's the centre? There's more ski in front of the foot than behind [1] so it isn't midway between tip and tail. Ski manufacturers mark a centre point on the ski, which is then aligned with a similar mark on the boot when fitting bindings. This approximates to the 'centre of balance' through which your weight should be acting most of the time. -- Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club. |
All times are GMT. The time now is 03:00 AM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SkiBanter.com