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RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
David Mahon wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Presently there are a number of ski and snowboard groups in the rec.skiing heirarchy however much of the discussion is US based, even in the subheirarchy for european resorts. I've nothing against people wanting to set up their own ng but rec.skiing.resorts.europe pratically is a discussion group for UK skiers. |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:22:13
uk.net.news.config Ian Spare On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:14:09 +0200, David Off wrote: I've nothing against people wanting to set up their own ng but rec.skiing.resorts.europe pratically is a discussion group for UK skiers. Quite, there's no argument I can see that rec.skiing.resorts.europe isn't working. Diluting it would make it weaker. Not the point at all. If sufficient people want the group in uk.* and the naming is sorted out it will happen. Dilution of rec.skiing.resorts.europe isn't an issue for people concerned with the uk.* hierarchy. I do hope this doesn't become F1 revisited. -- Wm ... Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
"Wm..." wrote in message
... Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:22:13 uk.net.news.config Ian Spare On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:14:09 +0200, David Off wrote: I've nothing against people wanting to set up their own ng but rec.skiing.resorts.europe pratically is a discussion group for UK skiers. Quite, there's no argument I can see that rec.skiing.resorts.europe isn't working. Diluting it would make it weaker. Not the point at all. If sufficient people want the group in uk.* and the naming is sorted out it will happen. Dilution of rec.skiing.resorts.europe isn't an issue for people concerned with the uk.* hierarchy. I do hope this doesn't become F1 revisited. I've got 5 F1 groups I use on my server, each of them has different characteristics to each other simply because of who posts to them. If the skiing group split then I'd imagine the same would happen, presumably the core posters would stay here and newcomers would chance their arm wherever they land first. -- James... http://www.jameshart.co.uk/ |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 23:41:00 +0100, "Wm..."
wrote: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:22:13 uk.net.news.config Ian Spare On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:14:09 +0200, David Off wrote: I've nothing against people wanting to set up their own ng but rec.skiing.resorts.europe pratically is a discussion group for UK skiers. Quite, there's no argument I can see that rec.skiing.resorts.europe isn't working. Diluting it would make it weaker. Not the point at all. If sufficient people want the group in uk.* and the naming is sorted out it will happen. Dilution of rec.skiing.resorts.europe isn't an issue for people concerned with the uk.* hierarchy. It is if most of the prospective users of the proposed uk.* group are already using the rec.* group, and prefer to stay where they are. They would be perfectly entitled to vote no, if they choose. I do hope this doesn't become F1 revisited. Repeating the mantra that uk.* doesn't care about the rest of Usenet, as if that was supposed to be a virtue, is one way of ensuring that it will. -- Don Aitken Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com". |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
Sun, 19 Oct 2003 01:20:39
uk.net.news.config Don Aitken On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 23:41:00 +0100, "Wm..." wrote: Not the point at all. If sufficient people want the group in uk.* and the naming is sorted out it will happen. Dilution of rec.skiing.resorts.europe isn't an issue for people concerned with the uk.* hierarchy. It is if most of the prospective users of the proposed uk.* group are already using the rec.* group, and prefer to stay where they are. They just stay were they are then, simple. They would be perfectly entitled to vote no, if they choose. So? Which bit of "If sufficient people want the group in uk.*" did you miss? I do hope this doesn't become F1 revisited. Repeating the mantra that uk.* doesn't care about the rest of Usenet, as if that was supposed to be a virtue, is one way of ensuring that it will. Whatever ... you beat your drum, I'll say what I think. At the moment I think I am making more sense than you. -- Wm ... Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 23:41:00 +0100, "Wm..."
wrote: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:22:13 uk.net.news.config Ian Spare On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:14:09 +0200, David Off wrote: I've nothing against people wanting to set up their own ng but rec.skiing.resorts.europe pratically is a discussion group for UK skiers. Quite, there's no argument I can see that rec.skiing.resorts.europe isn't working. Diluting it would make it weaker. Not the point at all. If sufficient people want the group in uk.* and the naming is sorted out it will happen. Dilution of rec.skiing.resorts.europe isn't an issue for people concerned with the uk.* hierarchy. It was the point enough that the RFD was posted into RSRE. If it's not connected then I'm a loss to see why it was posted there. If you objected to the RFD being posted in in RSRE then take it up with the poster. It's totally mindless to objiect to the RSRE becuase it doesn't have a UK prefix. Baring a few mindless bigots I can't see who might start posting to a ski group just becuase it's got a uk prefix so the best you hope for is take traffic out RSRE which does reduce it and for what? |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
David Mahon wrote:
snip I still don't see any need for the group, there's no significant skiing in the UK, for European skiing r.s.r.e is effectively the discussion group English speaking skiers, the majority of whom are UK based. Having seen the experience of the French who set up a ski n.g. which failed (fr.sport.neige-et-glace) despite a lot of people voting for it (and they at least have some ski resorts) I'm a bit dubious of the need to this group. There are far too many useless ng's being set-up IMHO. Anyway let us know when the vote is so we can exercise our opinion. |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 23:41:00 +0100, "Wm..."
wrote: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:22:13 uk.net.news.config Ian Spare On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:14:09 +0200, David Off wrote: I've nothing against people wanting to set up their own ng but rec.skiing.resorts.europe pratically is a discussion group for UK skiers. Quite, there's no argument I can see that rec.skiing.resorts.europe isn't working. Diluting it would make it weaker. Not the point at all. If sufficient people want the group in uk.* and the naming is sorted out it will happen. But is there any indication that there will be? Dilution of rec.skiing.resorts.europe isn't an issue for people concerned with the uk.* hierarchy. But it is for those who already read this group. I suspect that several of the readers of this group will vote against, because they will be worried about the effects a new uk group would have on this one. -- Alex Heney, Global Villager Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects. To reply by email, my address is aDOTjDOTheneyATbtinternetDOTcom |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:07:15 +0100, David Mahon
wrote: Here is the charter for RS For discussion of ski and snowboard resorts in Europe. Discussion of the pros and cons of different resorts in Europe and the snow conditions at the different resorts in Europe would be suitable for this group. Other areas that might be suitable for this group: lodging facilities, grading of runs, accessibility of ski resorts in Europe. Europe is a multi-cultural, multi-langauge area. This creates problems of a unique sort. This group will have no designated language. The language a poster desires to post in is appropriate. However, to make this work the multilingual people may desire to interrupt for the people that do not understand the poster's language of choice. This is very different to the proposed charter for uk.rec.skiing. So? As we all know, charters are flexible beasties - it happens that, partially due to the implosion of RSA, RSRE has become _the_ de-facto ski discussion group. There's even a fair few merkins who post here occasionally. I accept, however, that the name is not the most obvious for newbies, but I agree with others on here that the new group would, at best, fragment the existing group. -- Ace (bruce dot rogers at roche dot com) Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club. |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
"David Mahon" wrote in message ... In article , Ian Spare writes ..../... Here is the charter for RS For discussion of ski and snowboard resorts in Europe. Discussion of the pros and cons of different resorts in Europe and the snow conditions at the different resorts in Europe would be suitable for this group. Other areas that might be suitable for this group: lodging facilities, grading of runs, accessibility of ski resorts in Europe. Europe is a multi-cultural, multi-langauge area. This creates problems of a unique sort. This group will have no designated language. The language a poster desires to post in is appropriate. However, to make this work the multilingual people may desire to interrupt for the people that do not understand the poster's language of choice. This is very different to the proposed charter for uk.rec.skiing. This has probably been discussed already, but traffic through rsre is quite light, and I doubt that this has anything to do with its charter. As David said a similar attempt in France was totally unsuccessful. It would make more sense to amend the charter for rsre than to effectively double up on ngs for a pretty limited readership. Pete |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
Whats wrong with the exsiting group RSRE ? Agreed traffic is not that
high & IMHO like to see more europeans contributing to RSRE rather than fragmenting of a seaperate UK ng. Nigel PG wrote: "David Mahon" wrote in message ... In article , Ian Spare writes .../... Here is the charter for RS For discussion of ski and snowboard resorts in Europe. Discussion of the pros and cons of different resorts in Europe and the snow conditions at the different resorts in Europe would be suitable for this group. Other areas that might be suitable for this group: lodging facilities, grading of runs, accessibility of ski resorts in Europe. Europe is a multi-cultural, multi-langauge area. This creates problems of a unique sort. This group will have no designated language. The language a poster desires to post in is appropriate. However, to make this work the multilingual people may desire to interrupt for the people that do not understand the poster's language of choice. This is very different to the proposed charter for uk.rec.skiing. This has probably been discussed already, but traffic through rsre is quite light, and I doubt that this has anything to do with its charter. As David said a similar attempt in France was totally unsuccessful. It would make more sense to amend the charter for rsre than to effectively double up on ngs for a pretty limited readership. Pete |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
Ace wrote:
partially due to the implosion of RSA, RSRE has become _the_ de-facto ski discussion group. The thing that is good about r.s.r.e is that it is a relatively ego-less newsgroup (well apart from me :-). There are people who either live in the resorts, like Simon, PG and Ian or like you, ski a great deal during the season. Mix this in with the international angle contributed by people like Nicolas Masson and all the UK based skiers who have their own wants and needs and it can make for interesting and informed, if heated, debates. I notice from the French Tourist board that the number of UK and Irish based skiers organising their own ski holidays rather than doing a bed-and-butter package is growing each year, something n.g.s like this can help. Anyway this is just a discussion, if it comes to a CFD we can voice our opinions either way as to whether the group gets created. With things like the snowdomes and dry skiing there are perhaps aspects of skiing that are not well catered for here and would pick up a new audience. At the moment I just see it as another n.g. |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:01:38
uk.net.news.config Ian Spare On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 23:41:00 +0100, "Wm..." wrote: Not the point at all. If sufficient people want the group in uk.* and the naming is sorted out it will happen. Dilution of rec.skiing.resorts.europe isn't an issue for people concerned with the uk.* hierarchy. It was the point enough that the RFD was posted into RSRE. If it's not connected then I'm a loss to see why it was posted there. Because we like things to be discussed openly and the proponent (sensibly) included "your" (note the inverted commas) group in the crosspost. If you objected to the RFD being posted in in RSRE then take it up with the poster. I don't. I might have objected if the proponent hadn't included relevant groups though. It's totally mindless to objiect to the RSRE becuase it doesn't have a UK prefix. The RFD is not an objection to any existing group. Baring a few mindless bigots I can't see who might start posting to a ski group just becuase it's got a uk prefix People in the UK looking for a UK orientated group to discuss snowsports seems obvious. so the best you hope for is take traffic out RSRE which does reduce it and for what? Maybe people in the uk would prefer a group of their own? We'll see. The "taking of traffic" from "your" group is a non-issue. My best advice is if the people move follow them :) -- but we haven't got there yet. -- Wm ... Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:43:05
uk.net.news.config Alex Heney Wm: Not the point at all. If sufficient people want the group in uk.* and the naming is sorted out it will happen. But is there any indication that there will be? It seems so to me. That is more the proponents business though. He has to summarise the discussion and I haven't noticed anyone from the uk end saying "no no no" except for (possibly) Ace who specifically says he *doesn't* speak for the "Ski Club of Great Britain" and doesn't appear to be in the UK (based on my quick reading of his headers). Dilution of rec.skiing.resorts.europe isn't an issue for people concerned with the uk.* hierarchy. But it is for those who already read this group. Why? Maybe uk.rec.[something about snow and skiing etc.] would be a better place? I suspect that several of the readers of this group will vote against, because they will be worried about the effects a new uk group would have on this one. Yes, and I thank you for expressing your concern in a reasonable way. Some people do get concerned when a new uk.* group is created. They think "uk.* is stealing my group" or some such. uk.* can't actually do that. If people shift to a new group it is because they want to -- surely that is right? -- Wm ... Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:54:13 +0100, "Wm..."
wrote: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:01:38 uk.net.news.config Ian Spare so the best you hope for is take traffic out RSRE which does reduce it and for what? Maybe people in the uk would prefer a group of their own? We'll see. The "taking of traffic" from "your" group is a non-issue. My best advice is if the people move follow them :) -- but we haven't got there yet. What you miss here is that there's a very real possibility of diluting the value of both groups by inducing such a split. In reality, I suspect that many, if not most, discussions would be x-posted anyway, but that would surely not be the best way to proceed. Now, if we could just put a newsgroup alias in place, so uk folks think they're posting to a uk group but in reality are on RSRE then I think we'd have the perfect solution. -- Ace (bruce dot rogers at roche dot com) Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club. |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:45:41 +0200, David Off
wrote: Ace wrote: partially due to the implosion of RSA, RSRE has become _the_ de-facto ski discussion group. The thing that is good about r.s.r.e is that it is a relatively ego-less newsgroup (well apart from me :-). And me :-) FWIW I agree 100% with the rest of your comments too, but then that's probably not a huge surprise. -- Ace in Alsace - bruce dot rogers at roche dot com Ski Club of Great Britain http://www.skiclub.co.uk All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club. |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
People in the UK looking for a UK orientated group to discuss
snowsports seems obvious. Ok, I'm in the UK, and would NOT want to post to specific UK group. The strength of this group is the broad range of people, you can get info from people actually in or close to resort, who have been to many places around Europe. I'd love to see a UK only group posting snow reports off Teletext ;) The "taking of traffic" from "your" group is a non-issue. My best advice is if the people move follow them :) -- but we haven't got there yet. It's a big issue IMHO, if posts are taken from this NG then we could end up with both being non sustainable. If it ain't broke why fix it? Greg |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
Greg Hilton wrote:
People in the UK looking for a UK orientated group to discuss snowsports seems obvious. Ok, I'm in the UK, and would NOT want to post to specific UK group. The strength of this group is the broad range of people, you can get info from people actually in or close to resort, who have been to many places around Europe. I'd love to see a UK only group posting snow reports off Teletext ;) The "taking of traffic" from "your" group is a non-issue. My best advice is if the people move follow them :) -- but we haven't got there yet. It's a big issue IMHO, if posts are taken from this NG then we could end up with both being non sustainable. If it ain't broke why fix it? Agreed. I will be voting NO if this ever gets to a vote. Seems to me that the majority of posters here are from the UK originally even if they don't still live here. |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
In on Wed, 22 Oct
2003 09:48:55 +0200, Ace wrote: On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:38:12 +0000 (UTC), (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: In article "Ace" writes: It was kinda sneaky to snip all other x-posted groups from the follow-up, though... That is the standard practice with the uk.* hierarchy. The announcement of the RFD is made in the moderated uk.net.news.announce newsgroup[1] and cross-posted to uk.net.news.config AND any other relevant group(s). The rules of the hierarchy state that all discussion is supposed to take place in unnc, which is why Followup-To is set there. It always used to be the case that this setting was explicitly mentioned in the RFD; are you claiming that this was omitted? Nope, but you must surely be aware that many netizens aren't savvy enough to work around it. More importantly, regardless of what you people who feel you 'own' the UK. heirarchy think, discussions about a new uk. skiing newsgroup should, IMO, be held on the pre-existing group you seem determined to sublimate. The people who, as you put it, 'own' the uk.* hierarchy are the people who care enough to take an interest. Life has a natural division of effort, everybody gets to take part - those who bother to turn up get to set the agenda, those who don't get to whine at those who do. The routine procedure for group creation in uk.* is that someone posts an RFD. Then a handful of people who have previously taken not a gnat's-turd worth of interest in the uk.* hierarchy pile in to display their knowledge by declaring that those who've spent years busting their intestines keeping the hierarchy working are doing it all wrong, how they think it should be done, that there is no need for the group, that it will die on its feet, that other hierarchies already have similar groups and that this one will mean the Death of Usenet. It then goes to a vote, the democratic will of the community prevails, the group gets created and develops into a thriving Usenet community, and the previously existing groups in other hierarchies are not damaged in the slightest. The prophets of doom are generally never seen or heard of again anywhere within the uk.* hierarchy. Then someone else proposes another group and the whole cycle begins again with new participants, each of whom is convinced they invented the game and that their arguments are entirely original and intellectually unassailable. Those who've seen it all dozens of times before yawn and wait for the vote. Thank you for playing your part in maintaining this time-honoured tradition. Followup set to unnc -- DG |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:59:32 +0200, Ace wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:05:41 +0100, Dick Gaughan wrote: In on Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:48:55 +0200, Ace wrote: Nope, but you must surely be aware that many netizens aren't savvy enough to work around it. More importantly, regardless of what you people who feel you 'own' the UK. heirarchy think, discussions about a new uk. skiing newsgroup should, IMO, be held on the pre-existing group you seem determined to sublimate. The people who, as you put it, 'own' the uk.* hierarchy are the people who care enough to take an interest. Life has a natural division of effort, everybody gets to take part - those who bother to turn up get to set the agenda, those who don't get to whine at those who do. I'm sorry, but I don't see what business anyone has trying to 'invent' newsgroups for toipics in which they've expressed no interest themselves. There's a difference between 'expressing an interest' and 'sticking your nose in'. I suggest y'all listen to what the real interested parties, i.e. the skiers and boarders who might be an active part of the proposed ng, have to say on the matter, rather than just suggesting what you think might be a good idea. snip It then goes to a vote, the democratic will of the community prevails, all well and good, but it seems to me, particularly if discussions are limited to unnc, that if it's the democratic will of a community who have no specific interest in the group in question it's worth not a gnat's ****. Followup set to unnc Why? Can't you stand the thought of outsiders who are only interested in snowsports being involved in the discussion? x-post reset |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:45:17 +0100, Dick Gaughan
wrote: In on Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:59:32 +0200, Ace wrote: Followup set to unnc Why? Can't you stand the thought of outsiders who are only interested in snowsports being involved in the discussion? Ah, thanks for reminding of the element I missed from my description of how the group creation process normally progresses: "And there is always at least one clot who, having been offered several clues by various people, persists in acting like a complete ****wit and ends up in a large number of killfiles." Beginning with mine. I don't waste time on idiots. Monty burns Excellent. /Mb I think that's my first-ever plonk. Proud x.posted to ukrm just to show off, like |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
Ian Spare wrote:
For anyone that's not popped over to the uk group let me give you flavor :-) It's like RSA on a bad day Yeah, I noticed that. The strongest impression you get is of a bunch guys with little or no interest in Skiing or Snowsports in general who by posting RFD's etc all over the place seem to want to establish themselves as net gods or something :-) It's seems there's no particular initial support for this RFD, it looks like a publicity stunt. Not to say anyone that thinks it's a good idea shouldn't vote in favor. oh my gawd, its Suzieflame all over again. |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
In message , David
Off writes Ian Spare wrote: For anyone that's not popped over to the uk group let me give you flavor :-) It's like RSA on a bad day Yeah, I noticed that. The strongest impression you get is of a bunch guys with little or no interest in Skiing or Snowsports in general who by posting RFD's etc all over the place seem to want to establish themselves as net gods or something :-) It's seems there's no particular initial support for this RFD, it looks like a publicity stunt. Not to say anyone that thinks it's a good idea shouldn't vote in favor. oh my gawd, its xxxxxxx all over again. Don't say it - some ko0ks do blanket searches for keywords like that one, if they hear you they crosspost your group to one with lots of their kind of activity. Usenet - a return to the Age of Superstition! -- Sue ]:(:) |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
In message , BrritSki
writes It's a big issue IMHO, if posts are taken from this NG then we could end up with both being non sustainable. Yes, especially as it's a seasonal sport, and groups left empty for months on end can get colonised for other purposes. Soppy binaries of children with no clothes on, for instance. So if Pete didn't do grass skiing, somebody else'd have to. The traffic issues will sort themselves though, one way or another. Seems to me that the majority of posters here are from the UK originally even if they don't still live here. Yes, and I think the number of UK-resident users here is probably more than we think. This group has that very knowledgeable hard core of posters who live near the skiing, so it's natural for the rest of us to sit back and let them tell it. A group limited to UK-resident skiers would risk sharing everyone's ignorance! Let's not forget the UK is part of Europe - we do talk a bit about Scotland and snowdomes here, but mainly if you live in the UK you're going to ski on the mainland or in North America. If it's the Continent you've got experts here (there's always a Scandinavian around when you need one, too.) If it's North America you actually want a group with lots of North Americans so you can get advice from people who live near the skiing there; then it makes sense to post to RSA (or RSAM if you really can't stand fools.) If people want technique threads I'm sure they'll start them - they're like bumps, they don't spring up until people start skiing. -- Sue ]:(:) |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:00:06
uk.net.news.config Sue The traffic issues will sort themselves though, one way or another. Yes. Seems to me that the majority of posters here are from the UK originally even if they don't still live here. Yes, and I think the number of UK-resident users here is probably more than we think. This group has that very knowledgeable hard core of posters who live near the skiing, so it's natural for the rest of us to sit back and let them tell it. A group limited to UK-resident skiers would risk sharing everyone's ignorance! You miss the fact that many uk.* groups have contributors from far afield. uk.* groups are not limited to people living in the UK. Now, what were you saying about ignorance? If it's the Continent you've got experts here (there's always a Scandinavian around when you need one, too.) So? Maybe people want a uk.* group, your group isn't *that* active [1] and the uk.* one might attract more people to the sports, best to join in if it happens surely? [1] that appears to be the fear factor in rsre If people want technique threads I'm sure they'll start them - they're like bumps, they don't spring up until people start skiing. Nothing to do with whether or not uk.rec.[something to do with snow] gets created. Next! -- Wm ... Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
"Wm..." wrote: Now, what were you saying about ignorance? Just bring on the vote. 99.9999% will ignore you. I will vote NO. |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:25:08
uk.net.news.config BrritSki "Wm..." wrote: Now, what were you saying about ignorance? Just bring on the vote. 99.9999% will ignore you. I will vote NO. It has nothing to do with who ignores me, dear -- Wm ... Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:14:09 +0200, David Off
wrote: I've nothing against people wanting to set up their own ng but rec.skiing.resorts.europe pratically is a discussion group for UK skiers. ditto or rather AOL It strikes me as being a bit of a waste of effort in trying to set up a uk. hierarchy skiing newsgroup. rsre has established itself as a viable ng with a good cross section of english language posters both from within the UK and, most importantly, from english speakers (writers?) from across Europe. I feel that the English skier gains much from the input of the European based posters such as David Off, Ace, Funkraum , Simon Brown, Marco Cattaneo to name but a few of the names that have stuck in my mind. I suspect that they wouldn't necessarily post to a uk. group which would mean that I would continue to look to rsre for authorative postings (a relative term... :-)) on the ski resorts that I'm most likely to visit. ernest |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
"Wm..." wrote in message ... Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:25:08 uk.net.news.config BrritSki "Wm..." wrote: Now, what were you saying about ignorance? Just bring on the vote. 99.9999% will ignore you. I will vote NO. It has nothing to do with who ignores me, dear From the comments made, seems to me that this thread is more to publicise the new ng than to obtain opinions. More of a fait accompli for the original poster than a genuine attempt to discover what would be the best option. He makes the point that uk. groups can be posted to, and read from anywhere. Precisely - as can rsre. Our current forum has probably a majority of UK-based contributors who post on a great range of subjects from the technical to the humorous, but hardly ever off-topic. A resident group of *experts*, some based in Europe, who contribute regularly. Rarely is a (sensible) enquiry left unanswered. Overall this forum is one of the best unmoderated ngs I have come across, although it could do with more traffic at times. A new group would be a waste of space imo. Who administrates rsre? All it needs is a less specific name, and you have a snowsports forum for Europeans and those interested in visiting Europe, and which is bound to have mainly UK contributors. So what's the difference, and more importantly, what's the point? Pete www.grasski.org |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
"David Mahon" wrote in message ... In article , PG writes A new group would be a waste of space imo. Who administrates rsre? All it needs is a less specific name, and you have a snowsports forum for Europeans and those interested in visiting Europe, and which is bound to have mainly UK contributors. So what's the difference, and more importantly, what's the point? Why are you so arrogant as to say that RSRE, "a snowsports forum for Europeans and those interested in visiting Europe" is "bound to have mainly UK contributors"? It's called observation and logic actually. Take a look at the forum archives. An English language forum tends to attract English speakers, and as other ski forums cater for those Anglophones that ski outside Europe... do I really need to explain more? Are there more skiers in the UK than in the rest of Europe? Are we even in the top 5 skiing nations in Europe? [1] Are we a "big name" in skiing? Or are the rest of Europe usenet and computer illiterate? [1] number of skier days per year Irrelevant, on the whole, to the point being made. Pete |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
"David Mahon" wrote in message ... In article , PG writes A new group would be a waste of space imo. Who administrates rsre? All it needs is a less specific name, and you have a snowsports forum for Europeans and those interested in visiting Europe, and which is bound to have mainly UK contributors. So what's the difference, and more importantly, what's the point? Why are you so arrogant as to say that RSRE, "a snowsports forum for Europeans and those interested in visiting Europe" is "bound to have mainly UK contributors"? Are there more skiers in the UK than in the rest of Europe? Are we even in the top 5 skiing nations in Europe? [1] Are we a "big name" in skiing? Or are the rest of Europe usenet and computer illiterate? David Mahon David Mahon's response above illustrates my point in the post he was responding to; the instigator of this thread just wishes to promote his idea, and has no interest in the negative feedback. Here he snips most of the points I made, fails to make any attempt at some kind of intelligent answer, then takes one comment out of context in order to launch an Ad Hominem. This from the guy who originally asked us for his views? The snipped part of the original post below: From the comments made, seems to me that this thread is more to publicise the new ng than to obtain opinions. More of a fait accompli for the original poster than a genuine attempt to discover what would be the best option. He makes the point that uk. groups can be posted to, and read from anywhere. Precisely - as can rsre. Our current forum has probably a majority of UK-based contributors who post on a great range of subjects from the technical to the humorous, but hardly ever off-topic. A resident group of *experts*, some based in Europe, who contribute regularly. Rarely is a (sensible) enquiry left unanswered. Overall this forum is one of the best unmoderated ngs I have come across, although it could do with more traffic at times. Pete |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:50:14 +0100, David Mahon
wrote: In article , PG writes Why are you so arrogant as to say that RSRE, "a snowsports forum for Europeans and those interested in visiting Europe" is "bound to have mainly UK contributors"? It's called observation and logic actually. Take a look at the forum "bound to have" suggests it is not based upon observation at all and indeed is the kind of statement that would be made before such a group were even set up. Try again. archives. An English language forum tends to attract English speakers, and as other ski forums cater for those Anglophones that ski outside Europe... do I really need to explain more? Ah. Yes, you do. It's not an English language forum. Read the charter. If you had any interest at all you'd be familiar enough with RSRE to know that there's only one or two non-English posting per year since the groups foundation. Since you clearly don't read it then it rather begs the question how you've reached the conclusion the UK needs its own group. -- Yeah, because you never know when the value of 2^15 will change and you have to go through all your code fixing it. -- Paul Tomblin |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
In message , Ian Spare
writes If you had any interest at all you'd be familiar enough with RSRE to know that there's only one or two non-English posting per year since the groups foundation. Since you clearly don't read it then it rather begs the question how you've reached the conclusion the UK needs its own group. I don't think it begs the question at all. The uk.* hierarchy is independent of any other Usenet hierarchy. If users of the uk.* hierarchy feel they want a skiing newsgroup within that hierarchy then they can have one if they satisfy the requirements of the hierarchy rules. The existence of skiing newsgroups elsewhere in Usenet is largely irrelevant to the current proposal. -- Paul Giverin British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
"David Mahon" wrote in message ... In article , PG writes Why are you so arrogant as to say that RSRE, "a snowsports forum for Europeans and those interested in visiting Europe" is "bound to have mainly UK contributors"? It's called observation and logic actually. Take a look at the forum "bound to have" suggests it is not based upon observation at all and indeed is the kind of statement that would be made before such a group were even set up. Try again. Fact: posting history backs this up, read the archives. Fact: The only non-English postings tend to be accidental. Fact: Most people prefer to post to forums where the language is one in which they are fluent. Fact: Non-UK Anglophones in the skiing fraternity are mainly North American-based, and tend to post to rsa or rsrna. Conclusion? archives. An English language forum tends to attract English speakers, and as other ski forums cater for those Anglophones that ski outside Europe... do I really need to explain more? Ah. Yes, you do. It's not an English language forum. Read the charter. As others have patiently mentioned, the vast majority of postings to this ng are, always have been, and likely will remain, in English. Split as many hairs as you like, but that's the way it is. Pete |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
"David Mahon" wrote in message ... In article , PG writes ..../... And I do have every interest in negative feedback. The negative feedback will be weighed up against the positive feedback when I decide whether or not to publish a revised RFD or to ask for a formal vote. Glad to hear it. Pete |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:11:30 +0100, Paul Giverin
wrote: In message , Ian Spare writes If you had any interest at all you'd be familiar enough with RSRE to know that there's only one or two non-English posting per year since the groups foundation. Since you clearly don't read it then it rather begs the question how you've reached the conclusion the UK needs its own group. I don't think it begs the question at all. The uk.* hierarchy is independent of any other Usenet hierarchy. What's the plan then, replicate every newsgroup in the rec hierarchy to the UK? -- Yeah, because you never know when the value of 2^15 will change and you have to go through all your code fixing it. -- Paul Tomblin |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
Ian Spare wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:11:30 +0100, Paul Giverin wrote: In message , Ian Spare writes If you had any interest at all you'd be familiar enough with RSRE to know that there's only one or two non-English posting per year since the groups foundation. Since you clearly don't read it then it rather begs the question how you've reached the conclusion the UK needs its own group. I don't think it begs the question at all. The uk.* hierarchy is independent of any other Usenet hierarchy. What's the plan then, replicate every newsgroup in the rec hierarchy to the UK? No, the 'plan' is to run a well managed hierarchy, allowing the users of that hierarchy to create groups if they meet the requirements. The requirements do not specify if the existence of groups in other hierarchies should or should not play any role in their creation in the uk.* hierarchy. If you wish there to be a requirement, then you can easily follow the established process and RFD for it, that would allow you to measure the support for your requirement. Also, you could just vote no every time it's the case and see if that has any effect. -- Tony Evans (ICQ : 170850) Recommended Author : David Gemmell A hangover: the wrath of grapes. Homepage : http://www.darkstorm.org/tony |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
Ian Spare wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:11:30 +0100, Paul Giverin wrote: In message , Ian Spare writes If you had any interest at all you'd be familiar enough with RSRE to know that there's only one or two non-English posting per year since the groups foundation. Since you clearly don't read it then it rather begs the question how you've reached the conclusion the UK needs its own group. I don't think it begs the question at all. The uk.* hierarchy is independent of any other Usenet hierarchy. What's the plan then, replicate every newsgroup in the rec hierarchy to the UK? Obviously not , but if sufficient people want a uk... group to cover a particular subject and are prepared to say so then the idea shouldn't be ruled out automatically just because a non uk group covers a similar topic. -- Alex "We are now up against live, hostile targets" "So, if Little Red Riding Hood should show up with a bazooka and a bad attitude, I expect you to chin the bitch! " www.drzoidberg.co.uk |
RFD: create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.skiing
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Ian Spare wrote: On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:11:30 +0100, Paul Giverin wrote: In message , Ian Spare writes If you had any interest at all you'd be familiar enough with RSRE to know that there's only one or two non-English posting per year since the groups foundation. Since you clearly don't read it then it rather begs the question how you've reached the conclusion the UK needs its own group. I don't think it begs the question at all. The uk.* hierarchy is independent of any other Usenet hierarchy. What's the plan then, replicate every newsgroup in the rec hierarchy to the UK? Obviously not , but if sufficient people want a uk... group to cover a particular subject and are prepared to say so then the idea shouldn't be ruled out automatically just because a non uk group covers a similar topic. I would go further: if sufficient people want a uk.* group to cover a particular subject and are prepared to say so, then the fact a non-uk.* group covers a similar topic is of no relevance. -- John Briggs |
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